Has anyone here used Advantage Steering in California to rebuild their steering box?

My 420 would leak a little during the driving season, but since it's been sitting for the last 2 months all the power steering fluid has leaked out. I know exactly where it's coming from but am considering having it professionally rebuilt.

I was quoted $875 but am still waiting to hear about the warranty. But if anyone here has used them I would love to get your thoughts.

 

Your 420 should have the Adwest Marles Variomatic power steering which is the same box as my S type. A couple of years ago I stripped mine down and fitted new seals. It was one of the easiest things I have done. Inside the box there are a couple of nylon bushes on the spindles which did not show any sign of wear. Fitting the seal kit which you can buy from SNG is easy. The one that leaks is the seal which goes over the splined main shaft. The reason for this is the seal is a tight fit over the splines and if you slide it on you get micro cuts from the splines on the inside edge which as the seal gets older enlarge and leak under pressure. If you wrap the splines in cling film and grease, then slide the seal over the cling film, you will avoid the micro cuts and hopefully avoid later leaks. The Variomatic has two adjusting screws so once you have assembled the box you can adjust the slack with the screws. On a RHD car this can only be done whilst the box is out of the car as one of the adjusting screws is on the left of the box which sits tight up to the side of the sump and cannot be accessed in situ.
Seriously with the skills you have shown so far I would safe yourself some money and do it yourself. I would not say the same about the Burman Type 2 which is fitted to the early S type and the Mk2 as this needs serious knowledge to strip and repair.
When I did my steering box I wrote a thread for it on the S type forum which you can read here.
Adwest Marles power steering box. - THE INTERNATIONAL JAGUAR 'S'-TYPE REGISTER FORUM

 

Cass is spot on:

First type ~ not too bad to do. Early versions could distort their head ~ fixed. A friend has an early S type with one & we did it in an afternoon not rushing.

Second type with torsion bar and quill valve ~ a bitch.

Bendix Marles Varamatic made under license by Adwest as Cass describes ~ easy. Especially with your obvious skill set. In mechanical terms, the Varamatic is an hourglass worm-and-roller steering box, with hydraulic power assistance & variable ratio. Originally designed in Australia for an aircraft nose wheel. Bendix Corp commercialised it for cars.

 

Thank you Cass that's a great write up. In the exploded diagram that Glyn posted on your write-up I don't see the offending seal. I think it would go between #11 and #12 - correct? And if so does that mean I don't have to do major disassembly or is this going to be my fate too?
"OK my intention was just to replace the seals with minimal intrusion in to the steering box but as I went along I found this was impossible."

 

Lets get it over here & Cass can explain. (From Spares Manual) I've never owned or done one. I have the 2nd Type (Bitch) ~ I sent it out to be done. My comments about being easy are based on general Register chatter & Cass.

 

so am i reading it right? that my power-steering equipped LHD 1967 mk2/340's excessive steering slop, or backlash as it is sometimes called, can possibly be remedied by adjusting a couple of screws. can i be so lucky?

 

Yes, so long as it's not very severe. It's one of the several advantages of the Varamtic box over worm and nut or recirculating ball systems, which if you adjust on straight ahead will generally go tight on lock. However, most of these systems wear slowly.

Until the last year or so, I think it was possible to go back to the old Adwest factory in Reading for help. Unfortunately, it closed down in the last 12 months. All that remains is the bus stop outside, still known as 'Adwest.' Some remnants of Magdal, the parent company, exist in another location in Stourport. I don't know if that includes any steering box expertise or manufacturing data - they can't be the simplest things to machine. Fortunately, there's still a good supply of old boxes to raid, if metal parts are required.

 

Yes ~ as long as the slop is not being caused by worn nylon rollers in the plunging CV joint in the column which are readily available or the UJ. A column kit is also available.

 

Yes screw 20 in the diagram is held tight by grubber screw 22. Screw 20 pushes against a domed spacer 23 which in turns pushes against the flat section of part 14. The teeth on the other side of 14 push against the teeth on spindle 24 thereby taking up any slop. As I said due to its orientation screw 20 and the grubber screw 22 to allow it to be turned are tight up against the sump on a RHD car. I have not worked on a LHD car but I would assume that 22 and 23 are accessible.

The diagram is not clear but you are right that is where the offending seal sits between 11 and 12 in the face of 7. My intention was just to replace this seal on my box as this was the one that was leaking but as I pulled it to pieces not knowing what I was doing I found it easier just to pull the whole thing to pieces as the seals were in tight and very difficult to remove in situ. As I pulled the box to pieces it came apart into maybe a half dozen pieces with the major spindles all in one piece unlike the Type 2 box which as you take it apart bits fall out all over the place. I found no wear on the Teflon sealing ring 15 in my box and anyway did not fancy trying to replace this in case I broke it so this all went back in as was.
The seal that leaks which slides over the splines sits in the face of 7 "Valve housing assembly" and is not shown in the diagram but it is there I can assure you and comes with the kit. It is held in place with a circlip which I found was very hard to grab hold of and remove and I had to modify my circlip pliers by filing down the points so they would lock on and allow me to pull the circlip out. This was possibly the fiddliest part of the job. Below are some photos of the old offending seal in place, another showing the circlip and then the splines wrapped in pallet wrap plastic with the new seal being slid over the top. Cling film or electrical tape will do the same thing but it is important to wrap the splines as the splines are the same diameter as the inside of the seal and can cut the rubber if forced on without the splines being covered..



Valve housing with Centralisation washer.

The circlip tucked down in the groove.

Circlip and offending seal removed.

New seal being seated over the splines wrapped in pallet wrap plastic.

 

That damn input shaft seal over the splines is crucial to take precaution as Cass explains. My second Type came back from the rebuilders leaking very slightly. They apologised & replaced FOC. There was a Churchill tool for the job. A sleeve that went over the splines that you greased. But we still had to install & remove from the car again having bled the system that wasted time.

 

Thank you! It looks a little fiddly to replace in the car but it looks easy enough with the box on my workbench.

 

two different screws... one locks the other. got it! thanks so very much for the info.

 

In the December edition of the magazine of the Jaguar Enthusiast, there are some interesting thoughts from Ken Jenkins on the power steering boxes in our cars. He mentions that it's now very difficult to restore the older (before Adwest Varamtic) boxes if they have significant wear. The Adwest boxes are restorable and if the oil filter is maintained shouldn't need much attention beyond the seals. They are generally much better, stronger, and more precise. He recommends increasing caster on PAS cars to give more weight and feel. I think his thoughts are consistent with what we've all concluded on these pages.

One last point was that he fills all the PAS boxes with Dexron 2 - that's one for Glyn!

 

I know & he is wrong. The best protection by far would come from Type F or G fluids. i.e. Meeting Ford Spec M2C 33 F or G. One only has to look at the Additive Pack & it's constituents, treat rate & marginally higher viscosity & it's been proven time & time again when it comes to rate of wear. In the lab, daily drivers & on the race track. (especially Yamaha racing gearboxes)

I'm sure Mr Jenkins has his strengths as I have mine as does our oilco. No contest on this one. Dexron II is certainly not the best product for this application.

With trying to increase Caster he is spot on. Except I would like about 9.6 deg from experience. Impossible with our setup.

 

Glyn, Ken's a very good, old time mechanic with a lot of experience. Lubricants are way out of his expertise. Which is why I raised the point here and prompted you.

 

I was able to get the box out of car and onto the work bench. I didn't even have to use too many bad words.


From right to left is the washer, circlip, and the two seals I pulled out.


Before I put in my order - is shaft seal 262-035 what is needed?

 

It is hard to say by the link you put on as it does not state it is for the Adwest Marles Variomatic box even though it states it is for the 420 and 420g, which were both fitted with this box, as it also says it is for the Mk2, 340 and 3.8s, which all had the Burman at some point. Personally because of the confusion with Jaguar changing from the Burman to Adwest I would contact the company and confirm that this is the correct seal for your Adwest box before ordering. Nothing worse than getting the seal in the post and finding it is the wrong size because it is for the Burman!

 

It's Moss - I don't think they would know to be honest
This is my favorite Moss picture. I ordered a set of gaskets for the air plenum and they shipped me this - same part number, but the cork one is about 4 times thicker than the paper one.


I think I'll roll the dice and see if it works. If it's not does anyone know the part number for the right one?

 

All the Part Numbers for the Adwest box are listed in post No 5 above. Trouble is they will likely want to sell you a kit & one needs to hope they send the right kit. All 420's & Daimler Sovereigns should have the Bendix Marles Adwest Varamatic Box. They came with them from day one both LHD & RHD. They were first fitted to MkX & 420G. No 420 ever saw a Burman PAS Box.

Reference:

STEERING: The 420 became the first of the compact Jaguars to have the latest Marles Varamatic Bendix power-assisted steering. The system had actually been introduced on the 4.2-litre version of the Mk X Jaguar in October 1964, and that car was the first production model in the world to have it. It was a natural choice to help distinguish the 420 from the other compact Jaguars, and in due course it would also become an option on the S-types (in January 1968) and the Mk 2 (in March 1967). The 420, however, would have it as an option from the start of production in 1966.

Taylor, James. Jaguar Mks 1 and 2, S-Type and 420 (Crowood Autoclassics Series) (p. 139). Crowood. Kindle Edition.

Sorry ~ I'm an avid reader & knew I had seen it somewhere in my Jaguar book collection. It was built under license by Adwest in Reading UK.

 

I have always found SNG to be very knowledgeable and helpful over the phone their only problem is the cost of shipping. In the past I have ordered a thrust washer for my rear suspension which cost less than £1 but the cost of posting it in a Jiffy bag was close to £5 as a standard cost for up to a certain weight.