I recently looked at a 64 S Type, which ticked a lot of boxes. A documented 70K miles, nice straight body, recent rust removal & respray, lots of work done on the suspension & brakes. It had seemingly been well looked after, with the only visual problem a sagging & ripped head lining. But I never buy a car without a mechanical inspection, so I booked one with the local Jag expert, who knew the car. “It’s not a bad car” he told me “But has it had that front oil seal leak fixed? Because that’s around 30hrs of labour, which is around $3K at my rates.” So I got back to the Seller & enquired about the oil leak, & why he’d never mentioned it. “Oh I’ve been treating that.” He replied “& it’s almost gone So I didn’t think it was worth mentioning.” Now “treating that” can only mean he’s been putting additives in the oil to plug the leak, which is not the way I’d “treat” a leak, as it clogs all the oil lines & galleries. So I politely declined the car. But was I right to to so quickly walk away from such a nice car? To my mind, that motor now needs a $10K rebuild. But am I out of date on modern additives? Or can the new gunks actually fix a leak, without killing the engine? I’ve always believed that the only way to do a job is to get it done right, first time, which means spending the $3K to fit a new seal. So what do others think?

 

If the engine is ok at the moment and the car is reasonably priced this wouldn't put me off, as for 30 hours to replace an oil seal on the front of the engine someone is having a laugh there as its not a huge job to do.

You have to drop the sump which might mean dropping the front crossmember (not a huge job) although from memory you don't need to remove the sump, just drop it down, then rad out, water pump out, crank pulley off, front engine cover off and fit new seal. I would have thought two days was generous to do that but 30 hours which is nearly 4 days is taking the mickey in my view.

Maybe if the mechanic has been more reasonably priced the PO would have had it done.

If you wanted while the sump was down you could drop it out completely, clean any gunk out of the sump and check the big end and main bearings for wear.

 

Thanks for the input. My other worry with this car is it’s been on a small island off the Qld coast for the last 5 years, where it hasn’t been over 60 kph. So I’m worried that the first time it goes on a decent long distance run, with it’s oil lines clogged up, it’s going to experience terminal distress. Am I wrong?

 

Possibly, will the PO tell you what they have put in and how much they have put in and you could then check it? A good flush out with clean engine oil and a new filter and then run it gently for a few hunderd miles and change it again would help.

I would avoid flushing oils as these tend to do more harm than good by stirring up all the junk in the engine and getting it to circulate which is that last thing you want!

 

First of all the garage as Homer says the garage is taking the ****. You could easily do the front oil seal in a day if you know what you are doing. Cutting corners is just creating more and bigger jobs further down the line.
Secondly oil leaks on a 1960s Jaguar were built into its DNA and were described as a built in anti rust device. Oil will leak will leak from the engine, gearbox and power steering. Any 1960s Jaguar that does not have a little leak of oil has been fiddled with.lol.
Lastly I would have used the oil leak as a bargaining tool to get the price down. If the car has been on a small island all its life and not been thrashed I would have said it was potentially a good buy no matter what the price.

 

all Jaguars leak especially when they sit.

 

Oil additives that stop oil leaks are not like additives that stop coolant leaks.
Oil additives soften and swell up old hard seals so they seal again, they are not designed to plug up oil lines.

Scatcat, are you sure it's the front crank seal that's leaking and not the steering box and it's lines ?
The power steering boxes and its working are notorious for leaking.

There was even a case when the new S-Type was sitting in the dealers show room where they had to put a pan underneath the leaky steering box.

 

I would be more concerned with the recent respray and what it may conceal.

 

Get the magnet out...

 

Firstly the Mechanic who advised me about the leak is a Jaguar specialist, who’s the go-to guy for our local Jag Club. Secondly he’s actually seen the car & judged what it would take to rectify the leak to his satisfaction. So I’d take his estimate of the time & expense it’d take as fairly accurate. Thirdly this motor has only done 70K miles in 57 years, so it should be treated with a respect that I don’t think the Owner’s given it. & lastly I don’t like people hiding faults from me, & dodgy remedies, when they’re trying to sell me something. It destroys my trust in them, & makes me wonder what else they’re hiding. & I don’t like rewarding such subterfuge. So I’m very reluctant to buy the car from him. He also wants a fair bit for the car ($27K), which is the limit of what the car’s worth, if it was perfect, which it isn’t.
PS I have spoken with the panel shop that did the rust removal & respray, who’s also a trusted repairer used by the Jag Club, & it does sound to me like the job was done properly.

 

anybody know where the Old Coast is?
is it New York ? pretty old there.
is it England or Australia? even older.

I bought my '65 S type in 2004 and drove it 2,900 miles from the California coast to mid- Tennessee It left me down in Texas with a flat tire. And texans stopped and rescued me. And a Texas garage fixed the tire and refused to charge me for the repair. Would not even take a tip. The owner was inlove with car.

Two Thousand Nine Hundred Miles. I kept a log. I drove that car like a maniac, doing 80 to 100 mph. Nothing broke. It did consume lots of gasoline, but gave me a steady 225 miles per fuel stop, or 112.5 miles per tank. Can't get more mileage out of that old carburetted engine, certainly not doing an average 85 miles per hour. But man, what fun it was!

Then I drove it 4 times to Florida from Tennessee, 800 miles x 4. Same abuse as before. After the 4th trip back. engine started making clacking noises and I knew it was Adios engine. Hasta la vista.

The car sat in dry storage for many years and this year I started rebuilding the engine with help and advice from the experts in this forum. and the redhead, she is inlove with the car.

Engine is presently getting finished. But thar is another long story....and I will mention a short snippet:

The crankshaft SEALS. Sound familiar? The machine shop does not have the special tool to seat the seals. What a p.i.t.a.

Soooo... if a 1964 S type can't take that kind of abuse, it is not worth buying. They are very strong cars but all machines wear out.

 

Fair enough, I haven't seen the car but unless its heavily modified or there is something seriously wrong with it making replacement of the seal a lot more difficult then 4 days is taking the mickey. If on the other hand its the rear seal then thats an engine out job really and that would take a fair bit of time.

If you don't think the car is worth what is being asked then you can always offer what you think its worth, there is always room to haggle and anyone who is mortally offended by a low offer rather than negotiating isn't worth dealing with. If you think its over priced then so will a lot of other people and if its a rare car where you live that means that there aren't many but also not many people who want to buy so your both in a similar position.

 

Jose, The Gold Coast is in Queensland, Eastern Australia. South of Brisbane.

scatcat ~ I'm a retired Tribologist from the oil industry. A modern elastomer seal like the front crank seal can be made to swell with seal swell additive so that it will last for a while longer. Yes it is a band aid. Not a permanent fix by any means. It will ultimately require replacement.

The rear asbestos, or whatever they are now using, rope seal will not respond to seal swell additives. If it leaks it's engine out & I would have an SKF Flex seal (one piece elastomer) fitted when the crank is being machined. Have the scroll machined off & that narrow section taken down to the required 3".

The problem with seal swell additives is getting hold of them outside the major oil industry for the man in the street.

Lucas Oil makes a number of products with seal swell additives in them but we don't know what other gunk. If they have VI Improver in them that thickens the oil you don't want them. If they are thick stuff don't use them unless you accept that you are just prolonging the inevitable engine rebuild.

Many Major oil companies blend products with seal swell additives in them to meet specific OEM specs. Many finished products call for a small dose of seal swell additive.

That car is too expensive if it requires interior attention & the front seal done sooner or later. (I lived in Aus for a number of years. Sydney, NSW as an expat for our oilco looking after Asia from our Technical Centre there ~ spent more time flying than actually using my apartment.) Replacing the roof lining on a '64 is a terrible job. The foam backed Union Cloth centre piece is glued direct to the dome

Knock the price down or walk away.

 

Thanks for the input everyone, especially the oil industry guy. It does look like they’ve improved the stop leak additive. Well they would’ve had to, the old gunk had a terrible reputation as an engine killer! I did offer the guy a lower offer & he reacted like I’d asked to sleep with his Wife! Claimed he originally wanted $35k, for which he got no bites (surprise surprise) & that he was giving the car away at $27k. So I’m not sorry I walked away
BTW It’s the Qld coast, not old coast. I live in the far north of Qld, 1200 miles north of the Gold Coast, & the car is located on an island off the coast of Townsville, which is 250 miles south of me. But I rode my motorcycle down to look at it, so it didn’t cost me much in fuel & I had a fun ride. So nothing lost

 

ohhh QLD, not OLD. got it.

inflation I hear,
cost of used cars up 24% in the USA.
cost of classic cars, sky's the limit.
a friend in Florida sold his S type to a guy in Belgium for $25k USD + shipping + customs fees.
everything going up until it crashes again.

 

Yes. My buddy from Dallas has a Classic Car business in Holland. Says prices are certainly in an up cycle. Sold an S Type to a guy in France for restoration for Euro 38 K. His Benz stock is moving at crazy prices but he knows what to buy & stock. The S Type was a trade in & clean. The wrong sort of car to buy if you intend restoration.

 

I attended Spares Day at Stoneleigh on Sunday. The prices of parts seem to be rising at least as fast as decent cars. The parts in one rough classic saloon, sold off separately, could raise enough to buy a couple of good examples of complete cars. The whole seems to be worth nothing close to the sum of the parts. Still, by searching around, I found a few useful bits at good prices.

 

In Australia S Types, & Daimler 250 V8s, have been the bargain buy of their group for years. Especially compared to the astronomical prices the right MkII can fetch. All are experiencing the same lockdown lift that most classic cars are going through right now. But $30K (AUD) is still the big psychological barrier for both models to break through, with only exceptional cars achieving that. This car’s a 3.8S, so it has the potential to be exceptional. But it would take a lot of money & a lot of work to get it there. Before I found out about the leak, & the dodgy fix, I thought $25K was a fair price, which was what I offered. But now I’d think long & hard about spending $20K for it

 

My Son was building up a 1962 EJ Holden Premier to take an LS2 V8, but decided to change direction & is now working on a 36 Plymouth Sloper to take the big lump. He decided to cut the EJ up & sell the bits on eBay, which sold in a couple of weeks, & shipped to all parts of Oz. & he ended up making all the money back that he’d bought the car for. He got $200 each just for the Premier badges! But such is the frenzy that any classic Holden is experiencing right now.

 

I forgot that I had pics of the car on my phone. It’s a bit late now but I thought I’d post them up anyway.