Bolt thread question
#1
Bolt thread question
I decided to remove the rear suspension and have been instantly confronted with a problem. The bolts that are safety wired and hold the safety strap to the front of the radius arm need to be replaced. Barrett says they are 7/16 - 20 UNF. Does anyone know if that is correct? They were partially stripped upon removal so I want to re-tap the captured nuts in the mount. I did check and they are 7/16 - 20 but my thread gauge is SAE so don't know the thread angle. Before purchasing a tap to clean up the threads I want top make sure I get the correct one.
#2
SAE stands for "Society of American Engineers".
So find 7/16 fine thread on your gauge - U.N.F (union national fine) or 20 TPI (threads per inch) and that will be correct.
SAE _ UNC/UNF don't use thread angles like the metric system, it's just threads per inch.
There is an angle to threads, but I don't know what the standard is, but it's not measured that way anyway.
Get a tap tap that says 7/16 20 UNF.
If there is room, get a "taper" type tap, it will be easier to start as apposed to a "plug" or "bottoming" type tap.
If there's not enough room, then go with the plug type.
So find 7/16 fine thread on your gauge - U.N.F (union national fine) or 20 TPI (threads per inch) and that will be correct.
SAE _ UNC/UNF don't use thread angles like the metric system, it's just threads per inch.
There is an angle to threads, but I don't know what the standard is, but it's not measured that way anyway.
Get a tap tap that says 7/16 20 UNF.
If there is room, get a "taper" type tap, it will be easier to start as apposed to a "plug" or "bottoming" type tap.
If there's not enough room, then go with the plug type.
Last edited by JeffR1; 07-31-2024 at 02:29 PM.
#3
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#8
As a general rule on these cars, any thread into steel will be fine thread, anything into aluminum is coarse thread. You see coarse in studs into the cylinder head. The SU carbs and fuel pump along with Dunlop brakes are Whitworth/ British Association thread forms, everything else is SAE fasteners.
Last edited by Jagboi64; 07-31-2024 at 08:49 PM.
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#9
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It is my understanding that Jaguar went to SAE threads (UNC and UNF) with the introduction of the MK7 in 1951.
This was to satisfy the American market which was at the time their main market. Lyons had done his homework on gripes over servicing previous models.
The previous MK4/5 series were full of the old BSF, BSW, BA which were a pain to work on with different spanners etc.(I did have a MK5)
Not every part made the transition as suppliers like Moss, SU, Lucas etc. still clung to their old English thread systems.
However, any parts manufactured by Jaguar in the 1950s and 1960s should use SAE.
I can't speak for the later car series as I have found metric creeping in.
This was to satisfy the American market which was at the time their main market. Lyons had done his homework on gripes over servicing previous models.
The previous MK4/5 series were full of the old BSF, BSW, BA which were a pain to work on with different spanners etc.(I did have a MK5)
Not every part made the transition as suppliers like Moss, SU, Lucas etc. still clung to their old English thread systems.
However, any parts manufactured by Jaguar in the 1950s and 1960s should use SAE.
I can't speak for the later car series as I have found metric creeping in.
#10
For even more pedantry, the thread forms are SAE and Unified National, and within those exist fine and coarse thread standards. Thus UNF means a Unified National thread standard, Fine series.
The Unified National came from an agreement in 1949 between the USA, Canada and the UK to adopt a standard common to the three countries.
Last edited by Jagboi64; 07-31-2024 at 08:47 PM.
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#11
#12
Once major difference is that UN/SAE fasteners always have an exact fractional head size, or AF (across flats) designation. For example a 5/16" shank diameter bolt will always have 1/2" across flats head, BSW does not do this. The wrench for UN series fasteners, which is most common wrenches and sockets, always uses the across flats designation. Thus a "half inch" UN wrench (spanner) is 0.5" between the jaw of the wrench. BSW uses the fastener shank diameter, thus a BSW "half inch" wrench actually has a jaw opening of 0.920".
Last edited by Jagboi64; 07-31-2024 at 10:26 PM.
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#13
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7/16-20 is UNF - fine thread. If it was UNC it would be 14 threads per inch.
As a general rule on these cars, any thread into steel will be fine thread, anything into aluminum is coarse thread. You see coarse in studs into the cylinder head. The SU carbs and fuel pump along with Dunlop brakes are Whitworth/ British Association thread forms, everything else is SAE fasteners.
As a general rule on these cars, any thread into steel will be fine thread, anything into aluminum is coarse thread. You see coarse in studs into the cylinder head. The SU carbs and fuel pump along with Dunlop brakes are Whitworth/ British Association thread forms, everything else is SAE fasteners.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 08-01-2024 at 03:20 AM.
#14
https://www.reddit.com/r/Engineering...ead_standards/
The photo at the top of the link is a nice illustration of some thread types.
One of my old colleagues worked on threaded connections. I was initially surprised when he mentioned that the first two thread rings carried about all the load - the rest are passengers, but it's true. He also explained that almost everyone uses lock nuts incorrectly. I'll stop before my internet disappears again ...
The photo at the top of the link is a nice illustration of some thread types.
One of my old colleagues worked on threaded connections. I was initially surprised when he mentioned that the first two thread rings carried about all the load - the rest are passengers, but it's true. He also explained that almost everyone uses lock nuts incorrectly. I'll stop before my internet disappears again ...
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Cass3958 (08-01-2024),
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#15
https://www.reddit.com/r/Engineering...ead_standards/
The photo at the top of the link is a nice illustration of some thread types.
One of my old colleagues worked on threaded connections. I was initially surprised when he mentioned that the first two thread rings carried about all the load - the rest are passengers, but it's true. He also explained that almost everyone uses lock nuts incorrectly. I'll stop before my internet disappears again ...
The photo at the top of the link is a nice illustration of some thread types.
One of my old colleagues worked on threaded connections. I was initially surprised when he mentioned that the first two thread rings carried about all the load - the rest are passengers, but it's true. He also explained that almost everyone uses lock nuts incorrectly. I'll stop before my internet disappears again ...
The following 2 users liked this post by Cass3958:
Glyn M Ruck (08-01-2024),
Peter3442 (08-02-2024)
#16
Most lock nuts don't actually do much in the presence of vibration. They add a bit of friction, but they are practically useless. An appropriate grade of thread locker ( Loctite is the best known brand) works much better. It has an added benefit, in that it fills the inter-thread spaces, so stops water entering and stops corrosion. A lock nut won't do that. I use loctite on every fastener on the car.
Peter: Should we get into the differences between a bolt and a cap screw?
Peter: Should we get into the differences between a bolt and a cap screw?
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Glyn M Ruck (08-01-2024)
#17
JB, Doesn't the difference between a bolt and a screw depend on what country/continent you're living in?
#18
#19
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#20
We have an argument down in the west country about whether you put Jam on a scone first then cream on top. (Devonshire) or cream on first like butter then jam on top of the cream. (Cornish). I am a cream first man even though I live in Devon and I get some funny looks in the tea houses.
Then cream...
If you try and put jam on the cream, then you get cream all over the knife and if you need more jam, then the jam jar gets full of cream.
Also, if you try and spread the jam around on the cream, the cream will just get all over the place.
If the jam didn't set, then I suppose...
How could it possibly work well with cream first and then jam ?