Both clips on my front quarterlights (No Draft Ventilators) slip open and rattle when driving.
This is not a big problem but aggravating...

Any tips to solve?

Regards,
Dave

 

Are you talking about clip on mirrors that you have attached to your NDV frames?

If it is the NDV's themselves that rattle what is the state of the rubbers?

The Main NDV shaft in the doors has a heavily sprung toothed collar that should not allow the NDV's to move other than to click from one notch/tooth to another. If they rattle the springs are corroded loose or shot. A nut is used to tension the "spring" At some stage more notches were added to aid placing the NDV in the desired position.

 

By clips I mean the NDV locking handles, similar to part 33 on your drawing. The locking handles rattle not the triangular NDV elements.
Apart from the pegs/splints which fix the locking handles to the chrome bolts, I can’t source any parts. The problem is probably due to perished rubber washers.
I could imagine this is a typical small problem and there are some good tips out there...
Dave

 

Sorry ~ it was not clear. Are your clips pre the ones with a centre locking button? These are all parts for handle/clip with centre locking button. Not sure when they did the changeover. Ignore what does not apply.

Replace rubber washer behind the locking handle or clip as you call it



It might be a good idea to replace the entire NDV to frame sealing rubber to keep the lever/handle. tight against the post with the raised portion where the clip tightens it. But that means going inside the door to get to the spindle which is a nasty job. Try replacing rubber washer behind handle or clip as you call it first. I'm sure you can find a suitable rubber washer somewhere. We had no trouble finding locally ~ no rattles.

 

I just checked my 1960 MK2 and the system does not use a centre locking button. When closed the NDV is spring loaded against the NDV sealing rubber. If the handle rattles when closed you need a new NDV sealing rubber
When open the locking handle can rattle and if this is occuring it is due to the rubber behind the handle on its spindle having decayed.
I need to replace the rubber on my drivers side spindle as it can rattle when open. ( Just another little job!)
Cheers

 

Thanks. Does anyone have experience of removing the peg/splint? Do you need to drill it out? Or knock out from a particular side?
Dave

 

Makes sense Bill. All I can't find is a changeover date to the centre locking button but as you say complete rubber change if whole NDV rattles. Rubber washer under the knob/handle if only the knob rattles.

 

Spare Parts Bulletin dated April, 1964 covers the only published change to the MK2 NDV changing the first open position to 22 1/2 deg. instead of the prior 1st position of 45 deg. This was for the MK2/S-type/and Mk 10. Mk 2 cars as Bill said did not rec. the locking button. The Foundation has 3 MK2 cars fortunately. One of the first (#55 LHD) and a US 340 (Large bumper). The early car does indeed open to aprox 45 deg. and the 340 (MK2) opens to aprox 22 deg. Both latches are the same for early and late.

 

Sorry the SPB is P 116 and requires endorsements of J28 on P 64 and J.32 on p. 267.

 

CKD Mk2 ~ all capacities & 340's that we built 2050 of in SA gained the locking lever at some time with centre button. Might have coincided with launch of the S Type internationally. I think all S Types had them.

The 2.4 cars were considered underpowered here especially at altitude. 2.4 assembly was stopped at the end of 1963 here due to this.

CKD Cars could be very different. e.g. Finished cranks & cams were part of the CKD kit we received from Jaguar. We only machined aged and stress relieved blank heads & blocks here on the latest state of the art equipment for the era, to meet Lyons arrangement with government on our local content program which at the time was based on weight (Phase 2 = 55%). All upholstery was local as were items like batteries, springs etc. Silverton made tropical radiators locally as an example for proper cooling in hot climates. Finished woodwork was part of the kit. Book-matched veneering was not a developed SA skill set at the time. We could do it but not on a volume basis. (Lyons was clever. He managed to get UK castings of heavy components accepted into the weight deal) There were many differences in SA cars. e.g. a very good looking brush stroke vinyl headlining that was most practical vs lambswool Union cloth. (It was in the same pattern as the Union cloth headlining as regards rolls on S Type.) Upholstery was more durable in our climate.

All SA built S Types were 3.8's. etc.

 

Then surely there is some documentation on all of this--otherwise ordering replacement parts would have been a nightmare. Btw looked at two SA MK2s that were listed as 1965s. Neither had a push button on the NDV. And finally yes--it seems all S-Types had the push button.The window frames in the S are different than the MK2 and we are looking into the difference. At this point it is a mystery.

 

DaveinG
As far as I can make out the retainer through the locking handle is a roll pin and should knock out from either direction. You might need to give it a good soaking with penetrating oil first.
If you have difficulty finding a new rubber washer I suggest an O ring might do (or maybe 2 O rings).roughly 1/4 inch or 6mm.
If you decide to remove the NDV and replace the rubber seals the only real difficulty in getting the door interior lining off is getting the inside door handles and window winders off and back on.
The rest is pretty straight forward.

I have just checked my MK2 and both NDV locking handles have no rubber washers and can rattle when open. Can't rattle when closed as NDV sealing rubbers are in good condition
MY MK1 which uses the same handle but at the bottom of the NDV has good rubber washers.
I just checked and the Mk2 NDV does have stops at 45, 90, and 135 degrees. Same as the MK1

 

How do you know they were built in SA? Let me assure you some SA cars had buttons on the NDV lever ~ maybe 340's. I'm sure it all existed at one time but CKD & Browns Lane cars had many many differences. Differences you have no record of. Most believe our engines were better. Where have you seen a Browns Lane S Type with a small brushstroke vinyl roof lining & woven vinyl seat centres usually in Burgundy? (Not like the Daimler V8). They don't exist other than on certain year SA cars. There was an old chap at CDA who knew it all but he's long dead. Then production moved from CDA to Blackheath. Cape Town. More differences. CDA is now Mercedes Benz State of the art car plant in East London for local & export. Old buildings long gone.

If Bulletins ever existed they are long gone. The parts Manual is no good for many SA built cars other than the major parts. Even our sunvisors on an S Type were different with a cutout where the mirror is.

That's why I restored my S Type to UK spec. The South African materials are simply not available any longer. The S Type window frame had a higher fillet to hold the frame tighter to the door rubber & cut Mk2 wind noise. ~ see picture below. Apparently there were many complaints about weak Mk2 frames & windnoise.

The Parts book is for UK built cars only. Not CKD units, Other than major components. In Cape Town if you wanted a spare you took the old part to Robb Motors & said "I want one of these" The Parts book is wrong in many places for CKD cars. It was a different era. Few outlets. People were prepared to wait.

This is the hydraulic jack provided with SA cars. It originally came in a leather cover. Jaguar's flimsy jacks would be hopeless with the camber of some of our roads at the time. The spare wheel cover for SA cars was laminated plywood. I had to import a steel one from the UK for my car. (Remember I had 3 S Types. 2 donors.)

Large Window Frame Fillet on S Type to stiffen frame & cut wind noise over Mk2:



Jack ~ S Type & later Mk2's

 

Thanks again to all for your help! It’s fascinating to see what a detailed historical discussion was caused by such a minor topic.
I’ve put the job on my winter to-do list. The chrome on the outside head of the bolt holding the locking handle is in poor shape. After removal, I will take the opportunity to get it rechromed.
Dave

 

Great ~ re-chrome as necessary & a new rubber washer. I re-chromed my knobs & external "buttons" as you can see in the picture in post number 4.

 

My car was built in the UK in November, December 1962 and registered January 1963. It doesn't have the centre button and the glass opens to stops at 45, 90 and if I risked turning the rubber to powder probably 135°. They close quite tightly despite the rubber being severely degraded. I wonder if the centre button was an anti-theft device?

It's been a few decades since the Mk2 was my daily or weekend drive, but I don't recall opening the front NDVs, at least not for anything other than cleaning (Thinks: I could make them fixed quarter lights and bolt some decent door mirrors to them). I regularly used the ones on the back doors and often thought it would be convenient to have a remote means of opening and closing them.

 

"I wonder if the centre button was an anti-theft device?"

Certainly for SA it was an anti-theft device. One piece of wire could release the non button catch/lever. Stealing car radios was a big thing in those days & any other valuables left in view. The damage done to the car for a car radio was in many cases more expensive than the radio.

My car has the intermediate teeth on the collar to achieve more control stops for the NDV.

 

Don't tell me. Radio thieves worked along a line of cars in Amsterdam Schiphol Airport including my Renault 5. They smashed the lock in through the door panel before they noticed that it didn't have a radio!

 

Oh no! ~ idiots ~ I would like to use language that would have me banned.

 

I regularly had the NDVs at 135 degrees on all of the MK1s and MK2s I have owned over the last 38 years Only way to keep cool in temperatures we cop in summer in this part of the world.
Summer temps around the mid 30s C ie 90F are fairly normal. Today in midwinter max to 21C. (We did have a couple of max14C days last week; bloody cold!)

In regards car theft a simple "immobiliser" for a MK1&2 was to put a switch in the boot interrupting power to the fuel pump. They might get it "hotwired" to start but won't go far