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Heavy smell of fuel in the trunk/boot led me to believe that the fuel lines or vent tubes need to be replaced. I have since found that both pumps are the culprit. Couldn't see any leaks before but now it is apparently they are both in need of repair.
Can that be done? I see that Terrys Jag sells a rebuild kit. Anyone have experience with them? I haven't removed them yet to see what the problem is since I'm beginning to learn there are few simple repairs so far on this car.
I'm starting to feel like the Coyote in the Roadrunner cartoons. Every time I try to fix one thing I run head first into a painted cave opening on a rock wall!
I rebuilt mine and they work fine. New gaskets, points and diaphragms. Lots of people on here think the SU fuel pumps are a waste of time and effort and should be thrown, to be replaced by new modern equivalents.
The oil industry that I come from will confirm that SU pumps are crap. The most troublesome on the market. More wheel spanners have been used to clout SU pumps into action than change flat wheels ~ sometimes the clouts don't help. Bill Mac will back me up with his mountain of buggered SU pumps. Why they have never achieved FAA approval for use in aircraft & never will even with 2 of them in case one fails. Fit a Hardi from Germany for reliability. Even make the right noise. Plug & play. Identical mounting & fittings & available from Barratts. Easily identified by blue end cover. Polarity insensitive standard. Used on all pre fuel injected Porsches etc. & reliable as the day is long & cheaper than SU. Burlen rip you off. Some of their spares are a ridiculous price for what they are and materials used not friendly with some alcohol fuels ~ eg mixture of yellow metals with Zinc surrounds. A large range of Facet pumps are FAA approved and also an alternative but more of a hassle to fit.
Cass has just had a failure that would have left him stranded if the S Type did not have dual tanks & pumps or the tank with the good pump was empty. Cass is a resourceful man that could have swapped pumps. But runs a wedding service & would be reluctant to, dressed in his finest.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 10-30-2022 at 05:51 AM.
Try having SU pumps fail in the Australian outback 20 miles from the nearest town in the middle of summer where 40C (105F) temps are normal and you will understand why I am slightly biased against SU fuel pumps.I back up Glyn on his remarks on SU fuel pumps.They are old technology, are expensive are crap and cannot be trusted.
The cost of parts to replace the points, diaphragm and gaskets in Australia is ridiculous at well in excess of A$100
I can buy two good quality propriety Facet style pumps for the same money.
I can also pick up five Chinese Facet knock off pumps for the same money. (Actually, they work quite well. I put a couple on a S2XJ6 four years ago and they are still working)
There are also New Zealand made pumps for around A$100. Discarded SU pumps and that is not all Discarded SU fuel pump parts
So I tightened the screws around the diaphragm housing, where it was leaking, and that stoped the leaks. They were not fully tightened on both pumps. They pumps appear to be original to the car so I will replace them soon. Thankfully there is no more leaking fuel at the moment.
I definitely will do that Glyn. Thanks for the continued help and advice.
This is my first Jaguar and fourth auto restoration and at times it has proved to be a worthy opponent. I enjoy doing my own work on cars and this one is fun and challenging.
I definitely will do that Glyn. Thanks for the continued help and advice.
This is my first Jaguar and fourth auto restoration and at times it has proved to be a worthy opponent. I enjoy doing my own work on cars and this one is fun and challenging.
No one has mentioned the fact that you can get electronic SU pumps which look exactly like the original failure-prone points pumps…but the electronic pumps are perfectly reliable. Having had a pump failure with the original points unit, I replaced it 17 years ago with the electronic version, not a single problem. It even ticks like the original.
Prof ~ The electronic SU pumps are just as troublesome as the old rubbish. In fact many believe moreso. We have seen that in the oil industry as well, We have an excellent global view ~ the electronic versions give just as much trouble (see below). They are just poor pumps & not new. The electronic versions have been available for a very long time & still give trouble. Buy them at your own peril. There has been no noticeable change in trouble since the electronic versions were launched. QC issues abound. As you say that was 17 years back in your case & you have just been lucky. It ticks like the original because it is made like the original sans points. Hardi kick them into touch reliability wise. Sometimes we just have to accept that the Germans do things well & in my case forget my British routes.
We are talking ongoing global trouble with all SU pumps in the oil industry. Who uses them OE? Ever asked why? Why have they never developed a HP EFI pump? They are supposed to be fuel pump manufacturers. Burlen is just stuck in the past in a dying market ~ and expensive for what they are & forever out of stock.
One swallow does not a Spring make.
All that changed to make them electronic ~ Negative earth version below. (yes they can be modified to dual polarity). Why don't Burlen do that & have dual polarity units off the shelf rather than persist with 2 models. Pos & Neg earth. They make the odd dual polarity model. The board looks like a kids electronics kit. Not even flow or wave soldered. That choke looks as though it was wound around a little kids pinkie. (little finger)
What a half decent choke looks like. Not a precision one which would be perfect.
Nice availability record other than a few repair kits:
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 10-31-2022 at 11:34 AM.
That circuit board does look very "high school" Glyn.
The solder they used looks to have too much lead in it, it should be bright and shiny should it not ?
And the gobbed-on look is always professional looking.
I buggered up a BIOS chip on an HP motherboard once _ went out and bought a new chip from eBay and soldered it on myself.
It did not look like those somewhat cold soldering connections in those photos.
I had to go out and get the correct solder, flux and even a new soldering iron to do it right.
I'm not saying the ones from Burlin won't last, it just looks rather homemade, like they had some guy in back room right at Burlin making them up on the fly.
Even scrounging around for spare parts out of a bin.
Another example of where it's better to buy old and restore or upgrade yourself or replace with a modern equivalent that costs far less. I've no experience of Hardi pumps. Facet served me well years ago. SU pumps are antiques. The one in my Mk2 stopped once. My opinion of Bosch pumps for injection systems is about as low as Glyn's of SU. I used to have a collection similar to Bill's.
Bendix made a reciprocating fuel pump which is widely used in Piper Cherokee aircraft ranging from the PA28-140 to the PA28-235 as well as the carby engined early PA24 Comanches and PA 32 Cherokee 6 aircraft.
I don't recall ever having an electric fuel pump failure in any of these aircraft over a period of 15 years when I flew these types extensively prior to moving on to turboprops and jets
My current private aeroplane Piper Cherokee 235 registered VH-RGD has a Bendix pump and it never fails
It seems the Bendix manufacturers solved the reliability problems that SU could not fix.
That circuit board does look very "high school" Glyn.
The solder they used looks to have too much lead in it, it should be bright and shiny should it not ?
And the gobbed-on look is always professional looking.
I buggered up a BIOS chip on an HP motherboard once _ went out and bought a new chip from eBay and soldered it on myself.
It did not look like those somewhat cold soldering connections in those photos.
I had to go out and get the correct solder, flux and even a new soldering iron to do it right.
I'm not saying the ones from Burlin won't last, it just looks rather homemade, like they had some guy in back room right at Burlin making them up on the fly.
Even scrounging around for spare parts out of a bin.
The solder they are using is looking for a dry joint to occur. It should be bright & spread. Ever looked at a Sony Handycam board with micro components. That is proper soldering.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 10-31-2022 at 11:45 AM.
Another example of where it's better to buy old and restore or upgrade yourself or replace with a modern equivalent that costs far less. I've no experience of Hardi pumps. Facet served me well years ago. SU pumps are antiques. The one in my Mk2 stopped once. My opinion of Bosch pumps for injection systems is about as low as Glyn's of SU. I used to have a collection similar to Bill's.
Bosch pumps are intolerant of dirt as they operate flooded & rust clings to the magnets until they seize. They require 1 micron nominal, 3 micron absolute filtration & will run forever with filter change from time to time. Pierburg pumps that are used by VAG Group are similarly fussy but man do they last if the fuel is clean as do Bosch.
I wonder how the Robert Bosch / Magneti Marelli JV is working out?
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 10-31-2022 at 05:34 PM.
Bosch pumps are intolerant of dirt as they operate flooded & rust clings to the magnets until they seize. They require 1 micron nominal, 3 micron absolute filtration & will run forever. Pierburg pumps that are used by VAG Group are similarly fussy but man do they last if the fuel is clean as do Bosch.
Yes and no. My experience has been that, though they survive longer, both makes still fail even with a filtered fuel entering the pump. My suspicion is that ferrous particles can still accumulate inside the pump. Essentially, they require either a rust free tank or better still a totally non-ferrous one. The whole fuel system of the series 3 XJ is particle sensitive. In the end, we replaced everything (both tanks, all pipes, change over valves, pump) of the Daimler. We kept the injectors, but had them cleaned. I searched for aluminium tanks, but the supplier had disappeared. In fact, at the time, it was very difficult to find even steel tanks for a series XJ. If I'd not wanted to keep the car original, I might have sacrificed some luggage space and converted the car to an XJS or X300 tank. It should now be good for another 20 years, by which time I fear I may be past driving it ... if it's still possible to drive liquid fuelled vehicles.
All depends on the filtration level. VAG Group use plastic tanks. (suitable polymer tanks for fuels/alcohols)
I would blame the car ~ not the pump. We oil companies also deserve some criticism. Never fill up if a tanker is discharging into a gas station's underground tanks. It's stirring up all the bottom crud ~ tanks are cleaned on a rotational basis but nevertheless none are spotless. In SA with 10 to 12% alcohol fuel in the Sasol inland supply area we have fitted Donaldson large cartridge hydraulic filters to all service station pumps.
A million Kms on Mercedes Bosch & Pierburg pumps ~ use both of the above & some of their own build. Is good enough for me. The world's premium taxi.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 10-31-2022 at 07:19 PM.
10-28-2022, 08:08 PM
Fuel Pump Rebuild?
