On the S Type, when the sidelight/headlight switch is turned the to fog position, do the headlights stay on in addition to the fog lights coming on, or do the headlights extinguish?

Sorry for asking a basic question, but my car is in remote storage and not easily accessible in the winter.

 

the headlights go OFF in the FOG position. Designed like that. No need to apologize, every Jaguar owner has had to ask the same question since 1948 or earlier.
With my S type I separated the fog lamps from the main switch and did a separate switch with relay. I can turn them ON when I please.

Curiously, in Europe, in the XJ-6, Jaguar discontinued this practice with a switch that allows the auxiliary lamps ( Fog or Spot ), to come ON by pushing the switch or pulling it in ANY of the 4 positions of the switch. This switch is not available in cars sent to USA, only European countries. I managed to get one from UK and did not need to install a separate switch for my auxiliary lamps. .

 

My S Type seems to have been sold originally without the fog lights but when I bought it they were fitted. The previous and only other owner had wired them up direct to the High beam so they came on basically as driving lights but were off on low beam. I only had the three position head light switch, so Off, Side lights, Head lights and to get full beam and driving lights you hit the foot dip switch. I did not like the amount of load going through this circuit especially after I switched to Halogen head lights so called in an old school Auto electrician who rewired the circuit with a relay and I fitted a four position head light switch. Now I can have the head lights working normally at position H with high and low beam but can now move the main switch to position F and have the fog lights working with high or low beam so not just fog lights. I think it is better like this as I have a choice of using them as Fog lights or Auxiliary spot lights. The system works fine but I hardly go out in the dark with the car unless I am coming back from somewhere in the winter and it starts getting dark early so it is not used that often.

 

Cass, Did you say that in your system you can have fog with or without headlamps, like an XJ?

Yet another small mod that I'd like to make is to adopt the XJ relay system for dipping the headlamps. It would move the dip to the steering wheel flash lever. I've never liked the foot switch. Especially on English country lanes, I want to dip the headlights and change down a gear at the same time, it feels like too much footwork.

 

Standard you can't run an S Type with fogs & headlamps at the same time.
If you want to run headlamps & fog lamps at the same time fit an alternator that looks like a generator ~ multiple brands available with the PAS pump drive on the rear. Fitting relays is a no brainer.







Can't find the 3rd pic. will post when I do.

 

Thanks everyone. I'm rebuilding the dash in my Daimler, and I wanted a switch that would have the possibility of headlight only or headlight and rear fog lights on together. Looks like the S Type switch won't work for my purposes.

 

adapt a Series 2 or Series 3 XJ (1974-1987) headlights switch, they are almost identical switches when you remove the knob and escutcheon. It has effectively 8 ON positions, 4 as shown on the escutcheon fascia, plus 4 push-pull over the 4 positions for any auxiliary lamps, whether Fog or Spot.

 

It would be possible by adding relays to the circuit (which may be what Glyn was mentioning). There would be one to the headlights from the headlight position and a separate one from the fog position. Alternatively, it might be possible to modify the internals of the switch. The least attractive, but easiest would be to add an extra switch or repurpose an existing toggle.

 

in my 1984 XJ-6, I fitted quad Fog and Spot lamps sourced from a motorhome supplier. The white Spots are wired to Position number 3 on the Euro switch, and the Amber Fogs are turned ON by pushing down the knob in any of the first 3 switch positions, or ON by themselves in the last switch position. These cars came pre-wired for optional Fog lamps, so no wiring mod was needed. But in cars shipped to USA, the Fog position was blocked at the factory with the original USA switch. Totally illogical.

 

Yes Peter ~ exactly. Sorry if my post was not clear (it's not clear - I put my hand up). Modifying internals of the switch while anything is possible ~ especially by JB, would be a difficult route. I would go the relay route. To my knowledge he already has an alternator unless I'm muddling which of his cars has what,

 

My S has an alternator, I made a system to fit the power steering pump on the back. I'm talking about my 1990 DS420 limo, and that is in the process of an XJR supercharged engine conversion, so it also has an alternator.

The dash of the Daimler is almost exactly like the S Type - same headlight switch and row of toggles. However, I am making an AC system for the car and I will make a dash that looks more like a Series III XJ in order to have a centre vent. At the moment I'm not sure what switches I will use and how I will lay it out. I do like the original headlight switch, it has a nice period feel. The limos were parts bin specials, there are components from various Jaguars from the 60's through the 80's, so I also want it to look period correct - or at least plausible! The car has rear fog lights, but not front, and currently has an S Type style toggle switch for rear fogs. I'm going to be replacing the toggles in order to free up space for the AC vent, so am looking at alternatives.

 

Understood JB! Nice project.

 

Pete mine does not allow the fog/driving lights to be on without the head lamps. With the switch on H I can have main or dipped head lights. With the switch on F I have the same main and dipped but the fog/driving lights working on both. This is how I chose to have them wired but a competent auto electrician should be able to wire them up how ever you wish. I wanted driving lights for night vision but I can still use them in dipped beam for foggy conditions if required. On checking this out I just noticed one of my FT6 sealed beam bulbs has blown so I will have to pull a spare out of the attic and fit it.

As Glyn said if you are looking at upgrading your head lights to Halogen or fitting the Fog lights then changing to an Alternator is a good idea and with the Dynalite Alternators out there getting cheaper you can retain the PAS pump set up being driven off the back and not change the original look of the old Generator.

 

Yes. The standard set up that does not permit fogs & headlamps to run at the same time is that the standard C42 ~ 30 Amp generator can't keep up with all the power draw unless at high RPM. It runs in a minor discharge situation. So you either need the uprated generator (35Amp) or an alternator. The alternator upgrade is a no brainer IMHO.

 

An alternator is a good upgrade in any circumstances even if the rest of the electrics are totally standard.

As I've written before, I'm not enthusiastic about the front fog lamps on my Mk2 or my Daimler. I've rarely needed to turn them on and, when I have, they didn't work or pointed in the wrong direction and they get broken by stones etc very easily. I thought the idea behind them was to have them as low as possible to minimise light reflecting back. If the theory works (I very much doubt it in practice), then it's not a good idea to have the headlights on at the same time and probably explains the standard system. And of course that certainly doesn't apply if they're used as spot lamps. By adding some relays (from manufacturers who make reliable ones), it's not difficult to make any combination of light that you like with or without extra switches.

I think some of the purveyors of LEDs for classic cars have inconspicuous rear fogs. I'd certainly consider those for the Mk2.

 

I've just looked up and the uprated generator C48 was only 35 Amps. Standard C42 was 30 Amps.

Fortunately the sealed beam foglamps ~ FT6 ~ on the S Type do work & hold aim. The Fograngers on the Mk2 were known to give trouble & not stay as set. Very shallow bucket.