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You're quite skilled in welding, but I would be getting a new fender by now, or at least that section, if available.
It's amazing how rusty something can get !
Hi Jeff,
The thing is that not only are replacement wings expensive but the fit is poor, you only have to look at how much lead is in them from the factory to get them to line up.
The repair in this area only curves in one direction so should actually be fairly simple in theory.
If it doesn't work then I might consider a second hand replacement that do come up occasionally.
I used to stare slack jawed at the stuff that Ed was doing on WD. I'm lucky enough to live in the American southwest, so the only rot I have to deal with is rubber and soft bits. YOU, on the other hand, are on a mission! I get physically ill seeing the rust you guys put up with over there. I kid myself that you're barking, but my hat's off and a very big bow to you!
ps - just so you know that I know what you're up against (sort of):
Rkight, well its been a while since the last update and I've broken my own rule of doing the bodywork first and started looking at the engine.
Initially I just wanted to split the engine and box to make it easier to move for when we move house but then curiosity got the better of me and the next thing the head was off, then the sump and now i'm looking to remove the crank.
At least one but possibly several or all the pistons are seized the bore, number 6 (timing chain end) had some funny granule type stuff in it that looked like old antifreeze.
The engine has stood for 12 months with ATF in each cylinder which hasn't freed it off so I know some work is going to be required.
Removing the main and big end caps the bearings look ok, none worn through to the backing so far and the crank looks nice and smooth.
To put things in context, in line with my budget rebuild approach I want to measure and check the engine components and reuse what I can sensibility to produce and engine with a good few miles left in it but no necessarily as new. I don't just want to send it off to the machine shop and have everything done on it like the 3.8 I did in the other car as that's not in keeping with the project objective.
Firstly, where can I get hold of the original specifications for the engine, journal size, bore size etc? What should I use to measure these? I have a digital vernier but suspect I will need something better for the crank and some form of bore gauge to measure the bore?
What should I use to clean the cylinder bores of any rust or crud once I have got the pistons out?
What should I use to polish the crank if its ok before fitting new bearings?
Clearly I don't want to produce something that's wrong but just changing everything to give an engine that will last another 100K miles when its probably only ever going to do 500 miles a year at most isn't the best approach for me.
New honing stones and tool to clean the bores out, I wouldn't go so far to over do it, if there is a ridge.
If there is a ridge of any kind, then it needs to be over bored.
Something like this should be accurate enough to check the bores after they're cleaned.
In my experience with worn engines, any ridge that's removed with hand honing tool creates a bore that isn't parallel any more, and in turn this creates excessive blow-by because he rings are constantly moving in and out in the piston groove.
Can't advise you about polishing the crank, but there are lots of videos on it.
Most just take a microfibre rag torn in to strips with a very fine metal polish.
New honing stones and tool to clean the bores out, I wouldn't go so far to over do it, if there is a ridge.
If there is a ridge of any kind, then it needs to be over bored.
Something like this should be accurate enough to check the bores after they're cleaned.
In my experience with worn engines, any ridge that's removed with hand honing tool creates a bore that isn't parallel any more, and in turn this creates excessive blow-by because he rings are constantly moving in and out in the piston groove.
Can't advise you about polishing the crank, but there are lots of videos on it.
Most just take a microfibre rag torn in to strips with a very fine metal polish.
Thanks Jeff, I've got the pistons moving and amazingly there doesn't seem to be a lip on the bores.
I've really struggled to get them to move and in the end have had to use a solid metal block to hit with a hammer as the wooden ones either had too much bounce or split.
I've tried a blow lamp and even had a small fire in one to see if that helped, all to little avail.
I've left the bores soaking overnight in thinners to see if that helps.
I think the problem you may face is where the rings came in contact with the bore _ probably rusted in those areas.
So after you clean the bore up, this specific area will have rust eaten into it.
It will become a weak spot _ it depends how pitted that area is.
On the bright side, the rings and bore are cast iron, so maybe things will be OK.
I think the problem you may face is where the rings came in contact with the bore _ probably rusted in those areas.
So after you clean the bore up, this specific area will have rust eaten into it.
It will become a weak spot _ it depends how pitted that area is.
On the bright side, the rings and bore are cast iron, so maybe things will be OK.
I managed to get the pistons out which took some doing and I broke three in the process as I tapped them down the bores from the top and then had to tap them back out once i'd cleaned the worst off the cylinder walls (at which time the top of the pistions came off two and the bar I was using went through the top of a third. I didn't want to hit the conrod as I was concerned that I might bend it.
All six were well stuck and the ATF that has been in there for 12months had only managed to get down the side of one of them, the others were bone dry.
As Jeff has predicted the bores have some pitting and number 6 is quite bad to the point that i'm not sure if boring it will repair the damage. I need to ask the machine shop for an opinion but the issue here is that its going to cost me around £600 for a rebore and pistons before I do anything else and if the crank does need doing by the time i've bought gaskets, oil pump etc. i'm going to be up to £1500-2000.
If it were a 3.4 or 3.8 it wouldn't be an issue, I would just save up and do it but for this car being a 'lowly 2.4' its a lot of money to spend on an engine and car that has limited value. Sadly whether its a 2.4 or 3.8 the rebuild costs are pretty much the same.
I'm going to mothball the engine and have a think about it, it may be that I try and find a good second hand unit for it from someone upgrading their car to a larger engine.
The car has the body of a Mark II, why not just source another engine _ a 3.4 or a 3.8 ?
As for the bores, usually the max is 40 thou over _ that's quite a bit, that should take care of any rust damage, there's that, and sleeving.
But then again, as you said, why spend the money on a 2.4 litre engine.
The car has the body of a Mark II, why not just source another engine _ a 3.4 or a 3.8 ?
As for the bores, usually the max is 40 thou over _ that's quite a bit, that should take care of any rust damage, there's that, and sleeving.
But then again, as you said, why spend the money on a 2.4 litre engine.
I must be honest I did really want to do it as a 2.4 as i've never owned or driven one of the smaller engined ones and my economy/budget aim fits in with that. I will have to see what comes along at the right price, one problem seems to be that 2.4 pistons are not as easy to get hold of, David Manners do 3.4 and 3.8 one for around £200 per set but don't do them for the 2.4 and people like SNG Barratt are a lot more expensive.
The bore size on the 2.4 and 3.4 seems to be the same and I did wonder about using 3.4 pistons but there must be a reason why they were different originally, does anyone know what the difference is, is it crown to gudeon pin distance?
I've moved back onto the body work and have taken off one of the sidelight pods, I don't have photos but have noticed that the fixing arrangement on this car is different to the 59 3.8 I did before.
The 59 was like this under the sidelight:
I haven't got a photo of the 67 one to hand but the entire centre of the hole is a seperate piece and the sidelight pod welds onto this so effectivly its three pieces of metal as a sandwich.
Has anyone else noticed this, any idea why they changed to this as it seems a strange thing to have altered?
I must be honest I did really want to do it as a 2.4 as i've never owned or driven one of the smaller engined ones and my economy/budget aim fits in with that. I will have to see what comes along at the right price, one problem seems to be that 2.4 pistons are not as easy to get hold of, David Manners do 3.4 and 3.8 one for around £200 per set but don't do them for the 2.4 and people like SNG Barratt are a lot more expensive.
The bore size on the 2.4 and 3.4 seems to be the same and I did wonder about using 3.4 pistons but there must be a reason why they were different originally, does anyone know what the difference is, is it crown to gudeon pin distance?
What about custom pistons ?
I had some made for my Bentley when I did the engine, they were better and a lot less money, I payed 600 us dollars at the time for 6 pistons.
They had a very short skirt and forged out of round, so when they heat up, they become round, better alloy too then the originals.
08-09-2019, 06:36 PM
