I got new exhaust manifolds for my 3.8 L engined Jaguar Saloon from SNG ( parts C2213 & C2214) and a new exhaust system also from SNG. ( BSSJR007.) A fellow member of the local Jaguar club has a lift in his garage and has offered to help me get this new system installed. In looking over everything today in preparation for the install, I was shocked to discover that the exhaust pipes don't fit into the manifolds ! Pipes measure 2.012" but the manifold opening is only 1.886 ". the difference of 0.126 is more than what I think can be "jammed together". I called SNG and the guy said "they should fit in". When I assured him they didn't, he said he "wasn't sure the pipes were susposed to go into the manifold" and then basically said "take it to a mechanic and let's see what he says". I don't see how this system goes together unless the pipes are fitted into the manifolds - but what do I know ??? Does the misfit of these parts sound normal to anyone here ? I am dubious of the value of going to a mechanic - to tell me what seems obvious. Any thoughts members may have would be greatly appreciated. My best idea at this point is to have a machine shop ream out the manifold openings just enough to accept the the exhaust pipes. Below is a link to the system I've bought. THANKS FOR ANY SUGGESTIONS !!
Schmitty

https://www.sngbarratt.com/English/#...b-70d5891d21b6
https://www.sngbarratt.com/English/#...OMPONENTS(3265)

 

Can you please post a photo of the inside of where the exhaust is supposed to go into the manifold, and also a photo of the end of one of the exhaust pipes, please. The photos in SNG are no good for checking.

 

the pipes fit together with a seal between the pipes and manifold and held together with flanges, the down pipes do not go "into" the manifolds.

I purchased a Bell Exhaust system for my '65 S type from SNG and everything fit fine. I installed myself piece by piece.

Either I am misunderstanding what you mean or you are doing it wrong?

 

It's a long time since I worked on that part of mine (which is old Jaguar OE mild steel), but I'm sure it's exactly as Jose describes. The front pipes and the manifolds are attached by flanges that bolt together. The seal is made by donut type rings that sit between the flanges. The only insert type joint in the exhaust system is mid-length, just in front of the silencer boxes.

Treat the flanges on the manifold with care. The material is cast iron and can fracture. When it happens, there's a standard bodge (!?!) or creative solution of using a stack of washers to clamp the remnants of the flange. It works very well.

 

I had a look at the link to SNG. It does mention that the front pipe flanges are not included in the Bell system and have to be bought separately. That leaves you with the problem of how those flanges attach to the Bell front pipes. It's not obvious from the SNG photos, but presumably others here have done it and will advise. It may well slide over the whole pipe. You also have to be sure to have the right donut/olive seal for the manifold. I believe it's the seal that goes into the manifold rather than the top of the front pipe. Different manifolds take different sizes and shapes of olive.

 

Looking at that manifold, that is different than most Jaguar exhaust manifolds. Like Peter, I was thinking it needed a donut to seal, but this one doesn't. You'll need a flat flange welded to the end of the pipe with a flat gasket that bolts to the manifold. So the simple answer it that the pipes don't go into the manifold, they fit against it. This assumes that the photos at SNG are what you actually have.

Out of curiosity, why did you get that system? It sounds like it is only for the very early cars, and the manifold says for 2.4 Mark 2 only, not 3.8. The 3.8's are a taller block, so there is possibility it isn't the right manifold. looking at the shape, at first I though it was an E Type manifold, that's not the typical shape for a small saloon.

Can you remind us what car this is for? Your post doesn't say.

 

Thanks guys ! i'll try and answer your question as best I can. I acquired these manifolds and the exhaust system after inquiring here on this site as to what manifolds and exhaust system to acquire. My car is a 1959 Mark 1 3.4 that the P.O. had put a 3.8 L engine into. I also aquired the flanges and squae gasket manifold to pipe as part of this purchase. as part of the entire system that I got from SNG. ( who BTW) concurred with the Forum that this was the correct matching for my car. The flange actually slips up onto the pipe from the far end and goes all the way up to the pipe shoulder which interfaces with the end of the pipe meeting the manifold. It's late tonight, but tomorrow I will endeavour to figure out how to post some pics of the pipe ends and manifold.

 

Peter, I don't see how the flanges could be slid over the down pipes because the top end of the down pipes that meet with the manifolds are flared to accept half of the olive seal. The other half of the seals fit into the manifolds.

The 3.8 exhaust system should be identical to the 3.4 syatem, whether MK-2 or S type.

( the down pipes are the two pipes that connect to each exhaust manifold via the flanges, a p.i.t.a. to tighten and align correctly ).

the way I finally adjusted mine was to loosen the manifolds while still being held in place by its nuts.

 

I don't have time to read this thread in detail but there are 2 manifold types ~ sorry I have appointments. Two close to identical but mirror image 3 into 1 that flange straight down to connect to the exhaust (mainly E Type). Then. there are the 2 that are quite different & sweep back to meet the exhaust as on S Types etc. like this. So you could have wrong exhausts or wrong manifolds




Or this ~ mainly E Type ~ But not always.



Bell exhaust for S Type & most saloons fitting wise as an example and what is supplied by Bell. Bell no longer weld hooks to pipes. They supply a slide over ring/collar with hook welded to that ring/collar. I'm not talking about bolt tabs to front pipes with a hole in them. They are still welded to pipe. I'm Talking about centre silencer hanger points. See front pipe loose flanges to manifold.



Then you need to buy the band clamping & hanger kit. Example: I'm using S Type examples as I have them easily to hand but Bell sticks to the same regime. Sorry to post in such a rush.





.

 

As well as the difference between vertical and swept back design of manifold, the manifolds can seal to the front pipes in different ways. I think the early vertical (straight down) type (MK1 and early Mk2) may have sealed with a flat gasket. Most Mk2 used the swept back manifold and a donut that fits into, is compressed into, recesses in the flanges on the manifold (mainly) and the front pipe. Later still, XJ6 era, the seal looks more like an olive type compression seal. The recesses (internal bevels) on the manifolds have to match the seal type for everything to bolt together. I've an idea that even the donut type might not be all the same. Originally, they were steel and asbestos; later ones are soft metal, such as aluminium.

On OE front pipes, I think the flange was welded to the end. From the photos, it appears the flange slides over the front pipe of the stainless system from the other (silencer) end to meet the flare at the manifold. The flare has to be the right shape to mate nicely with the donut. SNG B and Bell should specify all the parts clearly for compatibility.

As for the fitting kit, I hope it's all non-rusting, non-seizing material. After many years on the car, as you'd hope for with a stainless system, it all becomes a total b*****d to undo. And access for an angle grinder isn't easy.

 

See the 'related thread' below. By magic, we have something relevant!

 

Yes ~ unusual Peter.

 

Correct!

They are all now stainless steel from Bell Peter.

 

Yes, the related thread was part of my initial research into acquistion of this new manifold and exhaust system. The exhaust pipe needs to have a flat flange on its end to square up with this manifold, as Jagboi64 and Peter 3442 have surmised. When I talked with SNG about buying the new system, I informed them that I really didn't know what to order and was going to be relying on their expertise. They steered me to the Manifolds and Exhaust system which I referenced in my first post. This was a mistake on their part . I have sent photos to SNG and have ask them to advise on how we are going to best rectify this problem. I'll report back. Thanks to everyone for your thoughts - I thought I had been missing something ( and praying for a simple solution ! ).

 

Schmitty, I realise it may not be how your car was originally built (as an early Mk2), but, if it's possible to persuade SNG, I'd go for the swept back manifolds and matching exhaust front pipes. Jaguar updated for a reason (most probably). It will make your car like the majority, which is easier for future maintenance. And, if it allows the use of donut seals rather than flat gaskets, I expect that it will be easier to achieve a good, gas tight joint. You don't want leaks, especially in that part of the exhaust, as apart from being unpleasant, it will be detrimental to performance and economy.

 

Good advice Peter ^

 

Turns out that BSS changed the front downpipes supplied in the kit I bought from SNG and the change was not noted by SNG. Another win for Murphy's Law. They are now contacting BSS in England and asking if they will build a set of special downpipes with welded flanges on to fit my manifolds. We decided not to exchange manifolds as I had ordered unfinished ones from SNG and had a Cerakote finish in a bright glaicer professionally applied to them. If SNG furnished me with unfinished manifolds that would fit the supplied downpipes, I would have had to get the Cerakote finish put on these. ( It wasn't cheap to get this applied - and they look great, IMHO.). SO, I'll hear from SNG next week on whether or not BSS can build and ship the "custom" downpipes. to be continued...
Schmitty

 

For my son James’ ‘61 3.8 MK2, Jaguar made two different exhaust pipes depending on date of manufacture. SNG sent the wrong ones. I had to ship those back and they shipped the correct set. They should have asked when you ordered



for vehicle ID or pix of your existing set. I named my shipment back to them The English Patient.

 

the Saga continues... SNG couldn't persuade BSS to make some custom downpipes with a flange that would bolt up to the "old style" manifolds that SNG sold me. So they made and shipped to me a pair of 4 inch long "downpipes" with the flanges welded on to the ends. As I was expecting a set of full length downpipes -as SNG had previously told me -, this was quite an upsetting shock to me. When I contacted SNG to voice my displeasure, I was told to just have the male end of the supplied pipes cut off and have these two new stubs welded on.."should be no problem at all". I pointed out to SNG that these stubs had to be welded on at just the correct alignment to match up with the manifolds and mufflers - thus I had now had to hire a "muffler shop" to install the system for me. (My overall opinion of mufflers shops is that men who were too dim to get hired at McDonalds ended up working in muffler shops). I had been ready to install this new exhaust system myself with some help from friends including a private lift in one guy's garage. SNG allowed that they would contribute $150 towards the expenses I will incur.... At this point I have talked with a half dozen local "muffler shops" and no one wants to touch this project. Partly because I use the word "Jaguar" and partly because I use the words "stainless steel". So, I am now sourcing a pair of stainless steel "lap joint band clamps" in the correct size (1.75") to see if that may be an alternative to the welding of the stubs to the downpipes. Getting the male ends of the existing pipes cut off is apparently a job that the local muffler shops will do for me. Obviously I don't want to end up with a leaking exhaust system; if anyone has any thoughts, suggestions, or tips.. Greatly Appreciated, as always !
Endeavouring along, Schmitty

 

I think I'd contact Julian Barratt, tell him the whole history and express your dissatisfaction.