That's funny !

When you get between being able to do 50 to 75 push-ups, you shouldn't need power steering anymore.

 

OK, lets go back a little. What is stopping you connecting up the GM electric pump? Is it that it produces too much pressure?
If yes then have you spoken to a hydraulics engineering mob to see if they can fit some sort of hydraulic pressure limiter?
eg https://www.google.com/search?q=hydr...ient=firefox-b
This looks eminently doable and cheap.
To connect up the PS pump do the following. Take the large positive wire and connect to main output of alternator.
Find the small exciter wire and connect to the exciter connection on the back of the alternator. Connect the earth to the body of the car.
This DOES work. I have it working on mine - just need to get rid of leaks in the box which hopefully will occur this week.

 

Good Evening Wouldbeowner,

Fitting a pressure limiting valve into the pipework was a suggestion someone else made further back in this long-running saga. However, it was thought that doing so could put back pressure on the pump and possibly cause it to overheat and ultimately fail (resulting in an extremely difficult to turn steering wheel due to fluid in the hydraulics). The pump (unless it's electronically controlled in some way) will just keep running at its designed speed. I've had so many hiccups along the way that (unusually for me) I've decided that the original design is best so, whilst the parts are still available (albeit getting scarce) I'll fit the generator-mounted pipe/hoses (whether that be on the back of a dynamo or alternator). I did have the Vauxhall/GM/Holden pump working but it didn't take long (having fitted new seals in the steering box) that I heard a 'pop' and fluid poured out of the lid past the large circular seal. As you know, without a four-post lift it's a pain (literally) to remove the box and fit new seals (again). I'd be interested to hear how your conversion goes - will you be putting a pressure limiter on ? Are you sure your steering box leaks are not also caused by the 1200psi generated by the electric pump (the boxes were only designed for around 700psi and, eventually they leaked anyway, even with that pressure ? Good luck - I'll keep you posted on my progress. Cheers !

 

Hi CQ. I am not certain that the leaks are not caused by the pressure BUT the pump's specification stated that 1000psi was the running pressure so you would think a 1000-1200 psi pump would be ok. I got the impression that some of those pressure limiting facilities werent just choke points but also had a bypass this means that the pump still out puts 1200 psi (say) but that 400 of that gets diverted through a bypass hose whish you would rout back to the input of the pump via a relatively simple 'T' fitting.
Cheers

 

Early post I made in the thread with enhancement.

Captain ~ Have you measured the pressure you have at the entry to the PS Box? Do you know the health of the Opel/Vauxhall pump? [pressure to be taken at full lock]






These are values of pump pressure used by Jaguar with Hobourn Eaton roller pumps mounted to rear of generator and later stand alone Saginaw pump fitted to the 420 with Varamatic. These direct from Jaguar factory service bulletins.

S Types: 4 Steering types.

Manual
First Type Burman PAS Box with Hobourn Eaton roller pump ~ 800 - 850psi (only very early cars ~ mainly fitted to Mk2's)
Second Type Burman Box with torsion bar quill valve & Hobourn Eaton roller pump ~ 1000psi ~ fitted to most S Types (Mk2's similarly updated)
Marles Bendix Varamatic (Adwest) Box with Hobourn Eaton roller pump ~ 1000psi ~ fitted to late S Types.
Marles Bendix Varamatic (Adwest) Box fitted to 420 with Saginaw pump ~ 1200psi

Truth of the matter is all seem to work together.
Common complaint is that steering feels overboosted.
Varamatic gives best feel.
I would not fit a 1200 psi pump to a 1st type PAS Box. (apparently known for distorting their top & leaking)


Pressure/flow control in original pump.


















LHD ~ First type. All similar configuration.

 

Hi again WBO,

I have no experience of hydraulic systems so you may be right regarding a bypass back to the return pipe - sounds a sensible solution. I've now bought everything I need for the original pump etc (allbeit a dynamo instead of a
Dynamator as previously explained) so I've definitely abandoned the electric pump experiment. I'm all for modern upgrades for our cars (I mean I've put a 4.2 XJ6 engine, Volvo front brakes, XJ rear brakes, XJ40 Sport electric front seats
etc into my MK2) but sometimes the original designs, as well as being simpler, are just more sensible. I don't normally give up on a challenge but I need this car working 'properly' as (Covid permitting) I'm booked to drive my niece to church in a couple of months. Please keep us updated on your progress - I'll do the same. Kind regards Keith

 

Well, in defense of your decision Keith there is an old adage that "a complex system that works is invariable found to derive from a simple system that works". I guess using the simple system is a viable approach. Cheers Tim

 

AND SO THE SAGA CONTINUES .......

Got the dynamo, rebuilt with new bearings, brushes etc. Got the pump (looks to have been overhauled, so on the basis of "If it aint broke, don't fix it" I've decided not to strip and re-seal at this stage. Got the correct fluid reservoir and hoses, including the high pressure one that connects the pump to the steering box. Luckily I've just checked the hose for fitment. Just as well I did as I found that the thread isn't long enough at the pump end - the thread bottoms out before the flanged pipe tightens against the pump interior (see attached picture of connector, compared to one of the original connectors which, fortunately, had been left in the used pump). Obviously these hoses are no longer available so this one (supplied by a well known Jaguar parts supplier) has been remanufactured. Looking at other suppliers pictures it looks like the ends of theirs are the same (probably from same source).
I now have two options (unless someone else can make a suggestion ?). Firstly, I could find a local hydraulics company who can cut off the flanged end, put the correct used connector on and then re-flange (if there is such a word) OR use an olive to go between the connector and inside the pump ??? What do other members think - one of you may well have had the same problem ?

 

A good hydraulic shop would swap those out and re-flange/re-flare that very quickly. That is the route I would take. Good that you have an original. I would forget the olive idea. Make it as original.

My replacement pipe came from Barratts with the correct fitting. Looked like original. Even had the foam sump pad on it.

 

Thanks Glyn - I'm thinking the same (I did just try the olive idea quickly but I don't think I'd like to trust it - it's still up to 700psi !)

 

when I rebuilt mine because the main hose was split I took the whole hose and fittings to a shop that makes hydraulic hoses for JCBs and the like. They took the fittings off the old hose and crimped them to a new section of hose the correct size. Cost me £30 cash in hand

 

Thanks Cass. I'm fortunate that, being near Birmingham, there are plenty of engineering companies nearby. I'll do a little research and get in touch with one of them (pending a reply from the the Jaguar parts supplier). Regards Keith

 

Yes Cass. They are easily made up. At the time I bought mine I was keen on original & it was cheap enough for me not to waste my time having one built. Suspect cost has risen since then. Also wanted the sump pad as mine was shot. Not available separately.

 

Anybody confused by the "sump pad" comment it is a foam shroud around the pipe with finger like depressions in it to protect the hose. Excuse bits of masking tape around the place. We had many to label or remind us to do things.


Just visible here.




Better angle.

 

I don't have a clear photo of mine Glyn but it runs slightly differently possibly because it is the Adwest Marles steering box not the Burman. Both pipes run along the back of the cross member and are held on with clips. The original pipe still had the sump guard but it was nowhere near touching the sump as yours is. Perhaps the foam guard was left on mine as an insulator against the heat of the sump? Another reason for my pipes being at the back of the cross member and not at the front is perhaps because where your pipe runs I have the Adwest Marles power steering fluid Oil cooler.
This was taken before I started the strip down of my car.



I really must take some more photos of the underside of my engine for explanation purposes.

 

Yes Cass. Yours being a late car is different. Mine is common to the Burman boxes on the S Type & Mark2's. Even so if you check the Parts Catalogue there were multiple HP hoses fitted to the S Types over the years. I fortunately have the common one. Some of the older cars had a single clamp onto the crossmember but none of my 3. As you say the Varamatic has an oil cooler.

IIRC your car does not have the LH & RH engine stabalisers either?

 

Correct No stabilisers here.

 

Response to PM. Plated dome to the right of the foam pipe protector shroud arrowed here is the grease cap on top of the steering idler bearing housing.

 

Hi again everyone,

No update as yet regarding the high pressure hose - I'm waiting to hear back from the supplier, just in case this was a one-off mistake by their manufacturer. I have located a local company that should be able to replace the threaded connector with the longer one, if needed. As mentioned in an earlier thread I am going 'retro' and fitting a dynamo in place of the alternator. One confusing aspect, when I trial fitted the dynamo/pressure pump, was the correct orientation of the pump on its three locating studs. Lucas have kindly put six threaded stud holes on the rear of the dynamo (presumably for different car applications). It's also possible to put the pump on any of the three studs so, therefore, there are six possible positions for the pump. Unfortunately, the Jaguar workshop manual drawing is of a left-hand drive dynamo/pump and, also, it's of the earlier pump, so that didn't really help me with which way to mount mine. In the end I eventually decided to mount it so that the threaded hole for the high pressure pipe (to steering box) was at the very bottom - this enabled the pipe to route to the steering box and connect OK. Some pictures I've seen show the HP hose being connected on the side of the pump but that wouldn't allow my HP hose to fir properly. Where do other members have their HP hose connected - bottom or side ?? I don't suppose it makes any difference really, but I'm just intrigued.
Whilst I'm busy typing can I also ask a favour of any member who has a power assisted car. I've bought the correct reservoir (minus the hard-to find alloy, angled, mounting bracket which I'll have to make) but I'm not sure exactly where it's mounted - again the workshop manual is a waste of time and the only pictures I can find on the internet are not very clear. A close-up picture would be very much appreciated.

Thanks everyone !

 

Here is a relatively unmolested original that I used as a reference car. Alloy angled piece varied from model to model. This is S Type ~ 1966.