Hi guys, I'm new to the forum and not to sure of what to do. And I'm from Australia so please don't hold that against me

I have inherited an S Type 3.4 manual O/D which really needs a full restoration!

A little bit of history on the car:
My Dad once owned a 1968 3.8 manual overdrive Mark 2 and always wished he kept it.
This S Type came up in need of restoration in 1992 so he grabbed it but at the same time him and my older brother's bought several other English sports cars and the jag restoration got put off. This all started in Victoria when I was 14 years old. We then moved from there in the mid 90s up to Queensland and then from Queensland to outback New South Wales on a large sheep and goat property where its still residing in a collapsed shearing shed that's over 100 years old.
The car apparently was an everyday driver by the guy we bought it from until he slid off a country road hitting a fence post in the back fender he never drove the car again, when this happened I'm not sure but we bought it off him in 1992.
The S type has the usual rust that I know of in the front and rear guards the bottom and the doors are bad. It seems to have a bit of rust that has come in the back windscreen seal due to winter rain dripping through a hole in the roof above it where it has been sitting for the past 16 years. I'm not sure what the undercarriage is like and as far as I know it's 99.9% complete only missing the original steering wheel. we also were able to acquire 4 brand new doors sometime in the 90s for it as well.

I have always Loved Jags particularly the E Type
I always Loved the S type as well and have read a lot about them and often wonder why they didn't/don't get the praise that they deserve.

I would love to restore it before my Dad's to old to enjoy it
But I do have limitations on the financial cost to do such a restoration!

So what I'm wanting to know is.. what's the true value of a restored S Type 3.4 manual O/D ?

And.. where should one begin when attempting such a big project on such a beautiful peace of motoring history?

Also how available are parts and panels etc:

I hope all this makes sense and isn't to long of an intro and look forward to anyone's replies..
cheers Phil from OZ
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Value is easy, it is worth less than the cost of restoration! S Types are not worth as much a Mark 2's but I'm not familiar with prices in the Australian market. For parts I have used both Jagdaim, or Prestige Spares and they are good. Both are in Greater Melbourne area.

The car doesn't look that bad body wise, certainly compared to some of the rustheaps you see in the UK. However, it's probably gong to need everything done, the seats looks shot and interiors are not cheap. It would probably be worth starting on one system and going through it and then moving to the next. As the saying goes, you eat an elephant one bite at a time.

 

I would say the valuation of a restored S Type is as much as someone is willing to pay. That sounds like a cop out but it all depends on the standard of work and materials used in the restoration. The cost of a restoration is generally more than the car is worth unless the car is hyper rare. An unrestored, clean tidy rust free running S Type in the UK is about £10 to £14k. A restoration project which would need welding. paint, interior, engine and gearbox work is about £3 to £5k. A fully restored S Type with a history file might fetch £25 to 30k.
99% of the parts required for a full restoration are available. A lot of the underpinnings, engine, gearbox, body panels and interior are shared with the Mk2 or 420 Jaguars, There are specific parts only made for the S Type such as the front wings which are very expensive, over £3000 for one wing, but you can buy repair panels which are cheaper to repair the wheel arches for example. There are some exclusive parts such as some of the vacuum parts for the heating and scuttle vent which are purely S Type and no longer manufactured as are some of the interior wood sections but there are secondhand parts available and plenty of experts to refurbish the originals. The largest cost in any restoration is labour. If you can as I did, do it yourself, then costs can be kept down. I spent £6500 over 18 months to restore mine which I initially bought for £4500. Another member of the forum who has sadly passed now spent over £35000 on his restoration over about 5 years and did not live to see the car on the road. Very sad. I would say over 70% of that cost was in labour.

With your car there are four ways in my opinion to deal with the car.

1. Sell it as it is for around £3000 to someone else who wants to restore it.

2. Go for it, sod the expense, hand it over to a restoration company, get the girl back on the road no matter what the cost and amount of work needed.

3. My favourite choice, start stripping the car down piece by piece. Safe what you can. Restore what you can. Refurbish what you can. Strip the shell to bare metal and see what you have got to work with. Take copious amounts of photos for provenance. Find local car enthusiasts that can help you. Find local businesses that can work on the cheap to do little specialist jobs like upholstery, wiring, welding, body work, wood restoration. Make a list of parts you need to replace and scour E Bay until you find the right part at the right price. Possibly even look for another S Type for sale in a similar condition as yours but with better parts than the bad parts on yours. What you don't need sell on as spares to fund the cost of work you can't do yourself. This exactly how I did my restoration without the parts car though as I did not have the room to store it.

4. Lastly start as number three and if it gets too much sell all the parts you have stripped off the car as spares. There is more money in the spare parts than selling the car as a whole. Shame to do this as it is another S Type lost but if the chassis is too far gone then the parts you sell will be a benefit to someone else who is trying to restore another S type.

Can you let us have the details off the VIN plate on the bulkhead so we can add the cars details to our S Type registry. http://www.jagstyperegister.com/ This is a registry and forum specifically for the 1963 to 68 S Type Jaguars. Please come and join us there where there are some very knowledgeable owners of S Types who can help you out.. There are four numbers on the VIN plate. Chassis number, engine number, body number and gearbox number. If you do not want to post them on here for whatever reasons please send them via a PM.

Just my opinion but hope it helps.

 

Hi,
In the USA and in AU you can find most any part needed and substitutes for no-longer-available parts. Shipping anything to AU is expensive. Restoring any Jaguar is an expensive proposition unless you have the money.

But it looks like you already have the main pieces needed to eliminate rusty doors, etc., so that is less money needed.

The S type is a secret, you can get them for less money and yet it is a better car than the MK-2 which is strictly prettier on the outside, but with a primitive rear supension, and it has a cramped interior.

The S type has twin tanks, and twin fuel pumps, it has the E type's rear independent suspension, it is roomier inside, has a prettier dash, AND it is less expensive. That is where the secret is. Of course, you don't have to sell it cheap, especially if restored.

So enjoy itI Fix it for your enjoyment. Can't be THAT bad.

 

Aus fetches on the high end for S Types in my experience. Used to live there in your great country on expat assignment.

Some rough guidance.









Not much in it 3.4 to 3.8. MOD's are more valuable.

 

An S-Type manual with over drive, is rare, most were automatics _ this makes it worth restoring.

Start with engine, CAREFULLY remove the plugs and try to turn the engine by hand.
Us lots of penetrating oil on the threads so you don't gall the aluminum.
Never use the starter to turn an engine over after it's been sitting so long.

Valves have a tendency to stick after sitting for many years.

You may even want to pour some oil in the bores before even attempting to turn it by hand.
It's also advisable to remove the cam covers and spray some lite oil on cam lobes and bucket lifters.

 

For me the key question is, if you want to save labour costs and do a lot yourself, - have you got a large secure and weather-proof garage to put it in that allows you to easily move around the car, and has space to store bulky parts without possibility of damage ? I rebuilt a Mark 2 in the 80s and it took me 7 years, and I was 32 when I started, so I had plenty of energy and will, which you do need a lot of when rebuilding cars like this. I was fortunate that a friend let me use his large garage for about 4 of those years, by which time the car was in an almost fully assembled state.

 

Thanks guys really appreciate so many valuable comments and for the quick responses.

I don't have the car yet and I'm still working on a few things to enable this to happen, but as soon as I get it I would love to jump back on this thread / forum from time to time and pick people's brains on what I should or shouldn't or could or couldn't do etc:

I do have one question / idea in the back of my mind to try and save a lot of time.
Should I buy an automatic s-type that's in good / reasonable conditions and driving, and maybe convert it to a 4-speed overdrive. Is it worth the effort and would it increase the value of the car even though it wouldn't have been original as a manual ?

But thanks again everyone

 

Buying a running reasonable condition S Type and then converting to the MOD has its drawbacks. For instance what is the condition of the MOD box in the car you have. Might need a full rebuild, clutch, flywheel. So changing it over with a rebuild would not really increase the Auto by as much as the rebuild costs. The Auto car has a larger gear box tunnel to accommodate the larger gearbox so it will fit. Doing it the other way would involve major gearbox tunnel alterations. Would it affect the valuation perhaps not. It depends on who the buyer is and what he is looking for. Yes MOD is rare in a 3.4s but buyers put a lot into a matching numbers car which you would no longer have.
If you are looking at buying a second S Type look for one with a really sound body. No rust. No welding required then build one decent car with the parts from the two. Sod the matching numbers or the resale value at the end of the build. Just get an S Type Jaguar back on the road and enjoy driving it. Please don't take seven years to rebuild it though that is like one Sunday every other week working on the car. I did mine by myself in 16 months working 2 days a week but many of those were 12 hour days in the summer. You have to love what you are doing.

 

This idea has go from a WHIM to an OBSESSION or you will fail. It takes time, determination and a lot of money to restore a Jaguar and regardless of how much you can do yourself, it will end up costing a lot more than it's worth.

Think very hard before embarking on the project. You could certainly go and buy a restored one for a lot less and have the pleasure of driving it immediately. If you do go ahead and finish it, the satisfaction will last a lifetime.

Graham

 

I agree with GGG to a point. The only problem with buying a "restored" one is finding one with a complete history of the restoration. People have different definitions of restored & many so called restored cars are not really restored but a half **** effort to make it look pretty. My restoration took well over 4000 hours of work & I don't pretend that it is perfect. Probably just a very fine example would describe the car adequately. At least everything has been restored bare body up whether you can see it or not right down to every wiring harness replaced. It was also a totally rust free car.

 

A bit negative there Graham and if everyone took that attitude none of our beautiful classic cars would be restored. I once met the chairman of our local JEC to collect some tickets to a JEC show. On his driveway he had a New Jaguar XF sat in front of his garage. I had driven over in my 1968 S Type Jaguar I had restored. I asked him what he had in the garage expecting him to show me his classic Jaguar instead his reply was his lawn mower. I asked if he had a classic Jaguar and he stated he did up until the year before. He had a XJS V12 but had decided to sell it as it need some work and instead bought the new XF to stay in the Jaguar family????????
The depreciation in the first year of his Jaguar XF would have paid for the repairs to his XJS and he would have had some change in his pocket. In the second year his XF would have dropped in value again and the XJS would have increased.
My daily drive is an Jaguar XF Sportbrake but I would not trade my S Type in for an XF.
Sometimes when restoring a classic car you have to look to the future and class it as an investment in both money and enjoyment. I see you are a Jaguar man but not a classic Jaguar man.

 

better than looking for a restored car, or wasting 4 thousand hours and tons of money remanufacturing a car, is looking for an unrestored unrusted example that does not need restoration.

They exist, I found one. The only "restoration" that had been done to mine was to respray it in 1984, and I have the documentation to prove it. Otherwise it shows its mileage and age, but the paint is still perfect. A well preserved example. No rust, No bondo, No accidents.

Oh sure, I had to install a new exhaust system, but that is Maintenance, not restoration. And I added modifications to it, for safety and comfort, like power mirrors at the front doors, Headrests, powerful driving lights where fog lights would be. And I drove it until the engine said "no more". It now rests in peace in dry storage where I keep it..... dry. (that's me in the white shirt as we watched a helicopter landing on the rooftop).

 

Spot on Rob. At least our cars have appreciated in value & not suffered the precipitous depreciation of a new Jag. But I built my S Type to enjoy. Not to try & make money out of. The family will no doubt profit from it when I'm long gone. By the way I was offered double what the car cost me to restore before I had even taken it home. But had zero interest in selling. This, of course will vary from country to country.

Doing the restoration with lots of professional help was also fun & something to do & enjoy in retirement.

 

This so true Glyn. Another story was a friend of mine was looking to buy a Mk2 Jaguar in 2016. As I had experience of what the pitfalls were with the mark I went with him to look one which in the photos in the ad look really nice. Stated in the ad was that it had been fully restored with a bare metal respray with photos of proof.
When we arrived it took me a couple of seconds to find all the lower front wings were rusted out in front of the A pillar. The sills were on their last legs and rust worms was eating around the rear wheel arches. Before I pointed out what I had found the guy produced the photos of the restoration. First thing that struck me were the photos were the sort you would have had printed at a chemists in the old days from a 35mm film not printed from a digital camera on a home printer. Looking through the photos I found one with a date on the back. .........1990............ This restoration the guy was claiming the car had been through was 26 years ago.
suffice to say my mate did not buy it and after my inspection there were plenty of holes in the good looking paint work where my fingers had gone through the rust that would show anyone else that the thing was a rust bucket.

If you are doing a restoration on a classic car you have to take it back to this before you start rebuilding it. This is my S Type at the blasters in 2013 before I started the rebuild.

 

Heavy doses of honesty and reality often come off as negative, yes. :-)

Garages around the world of full of half-finished restoration projects where the owner ran out of money or enthusiasm, having underestimated the amount of both he'd need to see the project through. And Phil hasn't revealed what level of restoration he is seeking, how much (if any) DIY labor he can provide, how much money he is willing to spend, and so forth. From the original posting I sense he doesn't have much experience in automobile restoration. (Phil, I'm not disparaging you here)

We all love to see cars brought back to glory. And we love to see enthusiasm for doing so. But, 'tis Phil, not us, who will be spending the giant piles of money and/or thousands of labor hours. It's isn't right or fair to be anything less than bluntly candid when someone, apparently lacking prior experience, comes along asking for guidance.

Cheers
DD

 

Right !

Phil needs to see this and prepare himself for that level of commitment.

Cheers
DD

 

I am with you there Doug. Half finished projects all over the place but if you find one even though the guy has run out of money and enthusiasm they still refuse to sell it to someone who can finish it. And if they do give you a price it is stupidly high, closer to the value of the finished car not what is in front of them. Reality is often overlooked.

 

Indeed Rob, When mine got back from the media blasters as a bare shell we put a man onto vacuuming all the remaining media out of every nook & cranny. A Herculean effort. Then blew Glasurit Porsche self healing primer into every void. The car was then sprayed both inside and out. Half the repaint job's you see even like Joe's, they do not do an interior respray. They don't even repaint the door shells behind the door cards. During completion Tectyl was applied to every hidden crevice, doors, sills, boot lid, bonnet etc. She was rust free & is going to stay that way. I know you repainted properly both inside & out.

Restoration is not for the faint hearted. Pride of ownership once done is fantastic. And I have a car that I can drive frequently & will well outlast me.

The other issue with buying a good original is that every rubber & foam component will be shot so a huge strip down will be necessary anyway.

 

And Phil hasn't revealed what level of restoration he is seeking, how much (if any) DIY labor he can provide, how much money he is willing to spend, and so forth. From the original posting I sense he doesn't have much experience in automobile restoration. (Phil, I'm not disparaging you here)

We all love to see cars brought back to glory. And we love to see enthusiasm for doing so. But, 'tis Phil, not us, who will be spending the giant piles of money and/or thousands of labor hours. It's isn't right or fair to be anything less than bluntly candid when someone, apparently lacking prior experience, comes along asking for guidance.

Cheers
DD[/QUOTE]

Thanks again everyone for your replies and particularly DD!
You raise a good point.. although I'm not a qualified mechanic or welder etc: don't be fooled by the fact I'm now a full-time massage therapist. I spent more than 30 years of my life growing up on the land operating and maintaining a list of vehicles and machines longer than my arm. Some include, tractors, bulldozers, graders etc: I worked for 10 years as an un qualified mechanic, welder and operator on a 1200 acre vineyard.

My first car was a 1976 Rover P6B V8, needing a complete engine change. I should have keep it.. was a lovely car and a lot of fun.
I have done a lot of mechanical on Toyota Land cruisers in particular, rebuilding engines, gearbox's etc:
I've not done a lot of body work and interior search as the jag will need.

If this restoration goes ahead as I hope, this is how I think I would like to do it!

# strip interior completely out dash included and all wiring loom etc: then send upholstery and Wood etc off to an upholsterer to have it remade??

# strip all exterior chrome doors off have chrome scent that needs to be rechromed.

#remove engine, gearbox, subframes and obviously all other components of the engine bay and anything else that needs to be removed prior to the body being stripped?

#once the body is off being stripped start the process of rebuilding motor, gearbox, and subframes.

#after body has been stripped repair rust and panel work, have body painted properly.

#then reverse the process when the body has come back putting motor, gearbox, subframes back on / in finishing the rebuild with the interior dash instruments!

Done, just like that...

What I think I can handle: would be concentrating on stripping the whole vehicle, doing the mechanical my self while everything else is done elsewhere, and then putting it back together and finally having it tuned and checked over mechanically when finished.

You may be thinking he has no idea just how hard that will be to achieve. And you're probably right I haven't attempted to do anything quite so big. I feel as though I have a pretty good grasp on what's needed though maybe my enthusiasm might lag when things perhaps get difficult or money runs a little thin but that's how I envision in a nutshell how things could go.