Hello Phil,
I am a new ember based in Qld and I just wanted to congratulate you, the classic S Type is a great car (especially if it has power steering fitted, or reverse parking can be a bit of a gym workout). Over the years I have restored 5 of these. If there is ever anything I can help you with, please feel free to get in touch.
Allyn.

 

Hi everyone I now have a 64 model manual overdrive in pretty good condition drives really well but needs a few tweaks here and there.
However it doesn't have power steering and I am wondering if it is worth fitting and just how difficult and costly it might be I think it would make it the ultimate driver with power steering.

I'm also very interested in fitting air conditioning to it and I'm wondering if anybody else has done it, and what the costs most likely would be. Or who I could go to for information in relation to this.

I am thinking of trying to use the car as a wedding car and air conditioning would be a great addition for this purpose.

Also how difficult is it to fit seatbelts in the back?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated cheers in advance 😊

 

Phil can't help with aftermarket aircon as mine has the original factory fitted aircon. There is a quarter light window in each corner and depending on the angles you open them depends on the flow of cool air through the car. British summers only though not particularly useful in really hot climates.

Power steering can be retro fitted very easily. I personally would go with the later S Type fitted Marles Adwest power steering box rather than the early Burman. Less leaks, more feel, and less turns from lock to lock. The Adwest was also fitted to the Jaguar 420 which you are more likely to find in a breakers yard. You will need the whole front cross member as there is a cut out in the subframe that he steering box sits in. The standard box did not need this. The 420 used a different power steering pump which you might not be able to use on the S type due to mounting points and room alongside the engine so you will also need the fluid reservoir and the power steering pump from a Mk2 or S type. The pump sits on the back of the generator and has a drive coupling between the two so you need to change the generator to. Finally the lower steering column arm which attaches to the steering box is a different length so this will have to be swapped out for the power steering one.
Although it sounds like a big job it is actually quite simple once you have collected the parts together. Shame you are not in the UK as I have some of the parts as spares that you would need in the garage.

Fitting seat belts in to the rear of the car again should not be a problem Most S Type Jaguars had all the fitting points already there from the factory. If you lift up the rear seat you should find four rubber bungs in four threaded holes. Two either side and two in the middle. Under the rear window parcel shelf in the corners you will also find two more threaded holes for the upper fittings. These are the seat belt mounting points. I run a wedding car business and if you are fitting seat belts in the rear for this purpose please consider that I have never come across a bride who wants to wear a seat belt across their wedding dress. The law in the UK states that if seat belts are fitted they must be worn but any car prior to 1996 I believe did not have seat belts compulsorily fitted in the rear. So if you have a pre 1996 car in the UK and you remove the seat belts there is no requirement in law for the rear seat passengers to wear them as they are not fitted. The law in Aus might be different to check before fitting or removing.

Position of the mounting points for seat belts on the S Type Jaguar.

 

[QUOTE=Cass3958;2439326] "Phil can't help with aftermarket aircon as mine has the original factory fitted aircon. There is a quarter light window in each corner and depending on the angles you open them depends on the flow of cool air through the car. British summers only though not particularly useful in really hot climates."

Thanks Cass.

Yep I've got one of those two, it actually works fairly well but our Winters over here although cold probably aren't much different to your barmy summer over there

With the seatbelt.. is there any particular belt that I should be trying to get like a retractable or not a retractable, or from any particular model Jag or it doesn't really matter?

I thought there was possibly a different type of pump for the power steering that didn't need to go on the back of the generator and therefore change the generator to an alternator but I'll do some more research on that..

 

You can use second hand but most go for new. There is a company in the UK that make up reproduction seat belts for Jaguars and I am sure someone will come up with their name.

There have been several projects mentioned on here about people using after market electric pumps and mechanical pumps from other vehicles powered by electric motors. Lots work, lots don't and there has been a lot of trial and error to get them to work. My view is to stick with the original set up of the later S Type Jaguars fitted from factory with power steering. The only upgrade I have made is I changed a couple of years ago from Positive earth to Negative earth wanting a more reliable Alternator than the Generator. I chose to go with a Dynamator which is basically the original generator housing with an alternator inside. The pick up for the PAS Pump on the back and all the fittings are identical to the original so it was a straight swap. If you are looking to fit a Jaguar original PAS pump try fitting an Dynamator and change to Neg earth at the same time if you have not already done so. The alternator gives me a lot more confidence of charging the battery even on low revs so when I am using the car as a wedding car I am not going to be stuck with an under charged dead battery.

 

I have a 1965 S type built in Sept. 1964 with factory POWER ASSIST for the steering and it is nothing to cheer about.

First, it is not POWER STEERING but POWER ASSIST. Big difference. A little power assist. Your wife will struggle when parking the heavy car even after you spend lots of money. It is a primitive system with a Ford farm tractor can for the fluid. You can get the can filters at Ford tractor supply stores in the USA.

Air conditioning:
Retro Air in Texas developed a system for the S type exclusively. Required a specialist to install and a complete dash disassembly, moving the battery to the trunk, etc.

Then the owner dissapeared two years ago. The website is still there but no reply to messages, no answer to phone calls. The a/c kit sells or sold for $2,300.00 Lots of hoopla on the website but no way to get answers. Well at least you can visit the website and look at the system specs. I think I still have the fitting instructions in a .pdf file. Rock Browning the owner kindly shared them in advance. I hope nothing happened to him, he is/was a great guy to get things done.

In or near Australia I would contact Beecham Jaguar, the famous remanufacturer of MK-2 Jaguars for industrialists who can afford their modernizing cost, and ask them.

 

Ideally find a set of factory original Britax belts. They use such nice chromed fittings & bolts. Have the metal work re-chromed if needed & have them re-webbed by these folk in whatever color suits your car. Aftermarket belts frequently have cheap stamped metal work other than the buckle.

These guys have the best metalwork. Not yellow passivate stampings.
Safety Belt Services | Seat Belt Manufacturers & Seat Belt Repair

Original:










Some generally available. Not pretty other than buckle. Not original but looks nice.

 

Sounds as if your car is fitted with the so called Burman Type 1 power steering box with Hobourn Eaton roller pump from the Mk2 as early S types had. The Burman Type 2 that was fitted to most S Types was much better & final cars had the Varamatic which was the best.

I would suggest that you have an issue such as a worn pump or box. Most people complain that the S Type steering is too light & overboosted. Measure your pressure ~ should be 1000psi at inlet to box (at full lock). Only very early systems were 850psi & I don't think those pumps got onto the S. I have the factory bulletin filed but too lazy to go paging & scanning. Even the Varamatic ran at 1000psi on the S Type. Varamatic on the 420 ran at 1200psi with the Saginaw pump. The Mk2 850psi steerings compensated with ratio. More turns lock to lock.






Here is the old bulletin.

 

I have a Feb 1968 registered S type built in Sept 1967 with factory Power assisted Adwest Marles Variomatic steering. As Glyn said a lot of people and myself complained that the Power assist was too good and at speed it was wooly. Parking was easy and neither me or my wife have problems parking the S Type at slow speeds as the power steering turns the wheels very easily. One finger turning from lock to lock. I changed from a standard 17 inch steering wheel to a 15 inch and that tightened up the response at speed. I am interested in your comment though Jose about the difference between Power assist and Power steering. Can you explain the difference please. Thank you,

 

Cass power assist is just that:, some assistance provided for the "normal" hard steering.

power steering is a purpose-designed system to make steering super soft and easy with just one finger.

I have never been able to move the S type's or the XJ-6's steering wheels with one finger, but I could do it with my father's Buick. The Jaguars are a lot harder to steer trom zero.

Sure after the car is moving neither power assist or power steering are needed.

 

Still don't understand what you mean Jose and what you think the difference is. The Power Assisted Steering system on the S Type is a "purpose designed system" fitted at the factory. Purposely designed by engineers to fit the Jaguar. Mine is super soft and can be moved with one finger. Admittedly you have to have the revs on the engine up so there is a lot of pressure being made at the pump but mine is super soft. As far as I am aware "power assisted" and "power steering" are the same thing it is just that modern system are more powerful, more economical and efficient in the way they move the wheels, Today we have electric and hydraulic PAS systems on modern cars and they are all plugged in to an ECU which then controls the feel of the steering making it lighter when stationary so easy to park or harder when travelling at speed so less likely to wander across the road.
Unless someone else can shed some more light on the difference.

 

[QUOTE
I thought there was possibly a different type of pump for the power steering that didn't need to go on the back of the generator and therefore change the generator to an alternator but I'll do some more research on that.[/QUOTE]

Phil,
There are several topics on here where we have discussed different pumps. One of the problems people have found is that a modern pump is a lot more powerful than the older Jaguar pumps which work between 850 and 1000 psi. Having a more powerful modern pump at say 1500 psi blows the gaskets out of the older Jaguar power steering boxes. I was going to say causing them to leak but most of them do that anyway but a lot more fluid would come out if you upped the PSI from the pump to 1500 psi.
You do not have to change to a Dynamator / Alternator as the older and original Generator can still drive the PAS pump but the cost of buying an original secondhand generator with the PAS pick up on the back ( Lucas C42) is going to be nearly as much as buying a brand new Dynamator with the PAS pickup.

 

They are one and the same thing. Power steering is power steering. There is zero differentiation & you have a problem if yours is heavy at parking speed. Yes different manufacturers might select different levels of boost & modern units boost less & less with rising speed. Jaguar fitted power steering to be light at parking speed. Most consider it too light.

 

Hi guys can anybody show me any pictures of the headlining being removed on a 1964 S type, what components there are and roughly how to do it 🙂.

 

Phil mine being 1967 has the fibre board roof liner but I think yours being 1964 was stuck straight to the roof. Glyn might be able to help more then me here.

 

I can only show you what a good job looks like once done. However once all the wood is removed by undoing screws in the external rubber channel & visible across the top of the screen & all chrome hardware unscrewed, visors, mirror, rear chrome clip etc you just tear the centre portion off the dome (Lambswool Union Cloth backed with foam) which is glued direct to anti drumming pads which in turn are glued to the dome. Be very careful with the rear window proud surround. Easily damaged & was never perfect. Some cars had horse hair packing on the C pillars.

Side & front pieces are just glued/clipped & screwed in place ~ tear off their covering & all will be plain. The later board model like Cass has, which I have not experienced apparently has dozens of little screws.

Good luck ~ horrible but rewarding job. Fit screens last as lining has to go into the rubber rebate or you end up with a mess. Prepare dome perfectly or any defect will show through the headlining

When the cursing is over.






Front piece pulls tight to dome once visors, wood & mirror etc are mounted & cloth pulls taught. Screen rubber external expander strip not fitted yet.




Cloth pulls taught once wood, visors & mirror mounted.





How not to. Union cloth not taken into rubber rebate. Dome poorly prepared.

 

Hi, thanks for that.

Glyn I've not started pulling it apart yet as I want to use the car in a couple of weeks time.
I'm wondering why I have to remove front and back screens?
I thought as I don't have the later fibreglass roof lining I could do it with out pulling the screens out?

Sorry if I've miss understood that.

To try and save money I'm going to remove the hood lining and the upholsterer is going to wrap everything and fit new roof lining to the actual roof. I will then put everything else back together which is why I'm doing all this research on pulling it apart..

 

The Union Cloth is supposed to run right into the screen rebate & tuck under the screen rubber & be glued in place or you end up with the mess shown by the yellow arrow above. Awful, visible skew cut edge to fabric.

Screen rubbers are supposed to be sealed inside & out or they leak. If you can pull your rubbers back you may be able to achieve the desired effect.

The rear is easier although my trim man wanted the rear window left out to ease access. Ideally you need the seats out of the car to do roof lining so you can move around. It's a horrible job gluing neatly to the dome. Start at center & work outwards. Union cloth is not easy to work with & too much glue somewhere will ruin it. This is not an easy job to do properly.

Rear is easier. (original car)






At the top of the windscreen see if you can pull the rubber away from the bodywork. If you can you may be able to glue & tuck the rooflining cloth under the rubber. Not the correct way but may work.

If your trim man has trouble tell him to phone Jon (Jonathan) Skinner in the UK. They have done many of them. John was his Dad after whom the company is named. They are who my upholstery kit came from. You can see in my signature link below. Jon is an absolute star. I phoned him from my cell & handed him over to my trim man for a chat.

https://john-skinner.co.uk/

 

Ok if I need to get windscreen rubbers, as mine look like they're probably the originals.. where do I go to get proper windscreen rubbers that actually fit properly. And wile I'm at it all my door seals as well?

I guess John-Skinner would be a start?

 

Skinner does not do rubbers. Many rubbers are a poor fit & pull away at the lower corners of the windscreen, pucker on corners etc. The properly moulded screen rubber should look too big until the expander strip is inserted. It's not.

If you decide to do the rear screen remember if you have a heated screen which is thicker glass you need a different rubber. It also has to accommodate the wiring. Refitting the chromework to the rear screen rubber is an evil job. If you do it I will give you some tips.

I finally settled on COHBaines. ~ many rubbers available are junk & crack & perish while you look at them. Mk2 & S Type take the same front windscreen surround & the same windscreen.

Sadly most of my interior upholstery pics got lost between my trim man's iPad & cloud storage.

Click "classic cars" & do some paging & you will find all the Jag stuff.

https://coh-baines.co.uk/