i decided on an engine rebuilder a while back and solicited an estimate and a timeframe. they responded that the engine would take three or four months. i also had a couple of other items, minor, that needed to be addressed. a wheel bearing, sloppy steering and vague shifting.

i had the car taken to their shop in april of last year. in october of last year i received pictures showing the completed newly rebuilt engine (i created a thread on this a while back). a subsequent inquiry was made on the first of december as to progress installing the engine and was met with "there is a XJS on the lift right now and is waiting on parts. as soon as they arrive the car can be finished and we can install the engine".

further complicating the issue is that the owner has found that my transmission could use an overhaul. i'm not surprised and gave my permission after asking the cost and time delay. cost was reasonable and there would be no additional delay.

i gave my permission to go ahead in the middle of december and i haven't had any contact since.

i'm getting nevous... as i have already been scammed by the FIRST shop that i had taken to car to for $10,000. the only thing THEY did was remove the head and show me the block that was cracked. they were supposed to replace it, but after six months hadn't done anything. i had already paid them a $10,000 deposit for the work and received nothing in return when i had the car towed out of their shop. (they wrote me a rubber check).

anyway, when should i start bugging the shop where the car is located? i don't want to aggravate them, but they have my car, and plenty of my money already. currently, there is no animosity between the shop and me, but i'm running out of patience.

soliciting opinions.

 

I would contact them and find out what's going on, or just drop in and surprise them, I like catching people off guard.

 

I've heard (and lived) this story more than a few times.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease. This needn't be adversarial. But do let them know that you're expecting progress. Personally I wouldn't demand a single, final completion date. Rather, break the job down in sub-projects with x-y-z steps being completed according to an agreed-upon schedule. For example, transmission o'haul completed by March 14th. Engine and transmission actually installed by April 14. Details sorted, car running by May 14th. Something like that. Structure the schedule and conversation not as demands but, rather, something that the shop feels is realistic and that they themselves agree to.

See how it goes. If they fall behind then you can toughen-up as needed.

Cheers
DD

 

thanks for the responses...

the shop is in idaho and i'm in california, so dropping by is not a reasonable option, although i did visit the shop sometime in may of last year, soon after my car arrived there.

thus far, communication has been maintained by email, and i prefer to have a written, date-stamped history of what has transpired, so i will soon be sending them an email, as it will soon be over two months (they said it would be a month to rebuild the transmission) since they responded to my query as to the timeline and price of the transmission rebuild. i will also be requesting the current status of the engine installation and a few miscellaneous items that need to be addressed.

not only will i be asking about a timeline for completion of the above items, but i'll be asking what i should do in the event estimated completion dates are not met, yet again. i.e. should i call them? and how long after the due date has passed, assuming it will be, i should wait before contacting them? thus warning them to expect possible repeated calls, and warding off criticism WRT harassment.

again, thanks for the advice.

 

Is this shop a specialist shop for vintage autos, or does it take on modern vehicles as well? If they work on modern cars, "daily drivers" will get priority over "classics". That is just a fact of life.

 

I have heard and read about this shop in Blackfoot, Idaho as I have a place over in Salt Lake where my Mark 1 lives. Local Jag club has some members that recommend this place - not any Jaguar specialist here in Salt Lake nowadays...I believe that these folks in Balckfoot moved up there from SLC, at least that's what I've been told.
NOW FOR YOUR QUESTION: I would for sure call them on the phone and talk with them about the progress on the car. I think that making the phone connection is good seeing how you already have personally visited the shop. I wouldn't be antagonistic,be friendly - you've met these people and know they are busy and skilled specialists - but get the message out that you are anxious to get the car back and would like a realistic assessment of just where the overhaul progress is and when they expect it will be finished. You can also send them an email AFTER the call confirming what was said and "promised". TBS, if you get a hostile response to your inquiries from these folks - then I'd start to worry !
Schmitty

 

I would go for a Whatsapp video call. Ask them to walk into the work shop and show you the progress on the screen. Get them to point out what they have done and what they intend to do. Then follow it up with an email covering the points you have raised and the time line you have discussed for finishing the job. Give them a dead line that you want it finished by. Make up a fictitious event that you need the car for. A local Jaguar meet, Anniversary present for the wife, your 60th birthday, anything to get it in their head that you have a dead line you expect them to meet or they will be letting you down.
My story of no dead line was with my engine and the engine builder. At the start of my restoration I removed the engine and took it to the machine shop to have it re-bored. I told them there was no rush as I was only just starting on the body work. Nine months later I walked in the machine shop and asked how they were getting on as I need the engine back to start the installation and found the engine on the floor of the work shop where I had left it. Untouched in nine months. Andrew the machinist asked me when I wanted it back and five days later the re-bore was finished and the engine was back in my work shop where I reassembled it. If you don't push them they don't think there is a rush and other things that are a rush get put ahead of yours.

 

All good advice here. If it were me, I'd start with a friendly phone call along the lines of "Just checking in to see what the progress is" and finishing with "Great thanks for the info, I'll hear from you soon.. if we haven't spoken again in X weeks I'll give you a buzz back." Generally things like this are due to people's poor communication and not necessarily a scam or anything dodgy, so proactive and regular communication requests from your side can help that. If you hit a brick wall or you get promised dates that keep getting missed, that's when I'd start progressing from friendly check-ins to "I'm starting to find this a bit of a challenge, I have other stages in this project and you're holding them up, can we please agree on a completion date" then if that doesn't work it goes to "I'm coming to get my car on Monday, whether it's ready or not."

Keep in mind a lot of people in small businesses are really great at what they do, but not so great at the actual business side of things.

Good luck!

 

dangoesfast,

pretty much what i intend to do, just waiting for the "two months without contact" time interval to elapse next week, before proceeding. i have a good relationship thus far with the people there, meaning we haven't had any arguments as of yet, but am a bit disappointed and anxious that i am the one that must make the first contact when dates for completion (like about seven months of them) are missed. i have only spoken with them about twice on the phone since april of last year. and i initiated the calls.

one would have hoped that the people that have been paid in advance would want to reassure their client as to what was happening (or NOT happening and why) with the car. after all the primary job of rebuilding the engine was completed on december 1st 2023.

maybe i'll suggest that they fire off a short email to me every two weeks with the status of the engine and trans until completion, stating that some expectation of progress is being made? does that sound reasonable after almost a year of delay?

again, thanks to all.

 

I think your problem is that they are a busy shop and the other clients have given them a dead line and pester them everyday to get the job completed. If you don't push people that's when they think you are in no rush and it sits on the workshop floor.
From my experience, doing the work myself, it takes no more than a day to strip an engine and gear box out of a car. A day to clean and strip the engine down into parts. Maybe two or three days to machine an engine ie re-bore, cut new valve seats, fit and shim the new valves, polish the cams and crankshaft. Two days to rebuild an engine completely. Two days to get the engine reinstalled back into the engine bay and started up. These times are based on what I as an inexperienced engine builder and mechanic achieved in my home garage. The biggest delay is always parts but I had already bought all my parts when I handed the engine over to the machine shop so they only had to machine the block for me. When I went to the engine shop after nine months the engine was still sat on the floor where I had put it with all the new parts still in the boxes on top of the engine. As I said previously once I pestered them five days later I had the engine back for assembly.
When I had my BW35 rebuilt I handed the car over to a gearbox specialist. In four days he had pulled the gearbox stripped, rebuilt it and had it back in the car. Every other day I was down the work shop taking photos so they knew I wanted it done and back in the car. He was a busy workshop and my car was sat on a ramp which he needed to work on other cars so the quicker he got it out the better for him. If the car is sat outside in the yard, not in the way, there is no rush for your guy to complete the job.

 

As above. Just keep the pressure on the buggers. At least a call a week or more.

 

yes, i suppose you are right, i should make myself more of a nuisance. ha. i'm probably being a bit naïve thinking that my "staying out of their way and letting them get on with it" approach is/was the thing to do, when the truth is that if their shop was around the corner, i'd be down there twice a week, in person, just to see what was going on, and think nothing of it.

anyway, i'll be calling them next week and (gently) requesting that they keep me up to date via email twice a month until the project is complete.

thanks again for everyone's well thought out advice. i'll be following through and keep this thread updated.

 

an update on my car as promised...

i called my car builder today. they promptly answered the phone. a good start, i thought.

i politely asked as to the status of the car. after conferring with the chief mech, i was told that the transmission was completed, as was the engine and the XJ6 that was hogging up the lift had departed and that my car would be on it and start the final assembly stage in a day or two.

i said, "that's great!" and gently asked as to when it would be completed. the response was a vague, "two weeks". so i asked if i could call in about that time. the response was, "sure, give us a call".

so that's where we stand. no confrontation, no excuses, no more delays. i hope.

so in the end there was no email, no paper trail, just the call. i'm satisfied for now. and have set a precedent for contacting them by phone asking as to the status and will continuing calling every two weeks or so until the job is done.

i'll keep posting as progress continues until i pick up the car. thanks to everyone who has offered advice. it's appreciated.

 

Good! Keep up the pressure.

 

i now have their feet securely bound and the fire in the stove is burning brightly. thanks.

 

I would like to know what they did to the transmission.
Generally when things go wrong, all the synchro cones are replaces and bearings.

 

the transmission work grew out of an original verbal request in april of last year. when i visited the shop soon after delivery of the car, i had mentioned that the transmission would "lose it's place" on occasion when shifting from 3rd to 4th gear and needed to be looked at and fixed if possible. once the engine was completed in december, i then reminded them via email of the problem, it went like this...

"Just a note about the transmission adjustment that I requested. It was prompted by excessive sloppiness in the shifting. To that end, I’ve just been informed that there is an adjustable detent that controls how much resistance is required to shift into reverse. This may well need to be increased as I’ve had numerous experiences involving the shift from 2nd to 3rd that left me in an intermediate state that involved a lot of grinding.". it was responded to, promptly, with an email from them that went..

"... (the mech) took the top cover off of your transmission. Both 2nd and 3rd gears show signs of grinding going into gear. He says the synchro rings should be replaced and the best way to do that is to rebuild the transmission because it has to come all the way apart anyway to do that. It will probably run in the $2,000 to $2,500 range to rebuild it. (The good news is that it is a full-synchro box).". i sent an email back authorizing them to go ahead and gave them permission to charge my account with a deposit for the work.

they usually are pretty good about creating a detailed report of what they did and expect i will eventually get more detail. if and when that happens, and i remember to do it, i'll post a comprehensive list of what was done. i expect selectors and synchros at a minimum, and maybe a gear cluster, the layshaft, laygear, bearings and a thrust washer or two. i've rebuilt british gearboxes from that era and have a pretty good idea of what to expect, but no details. without actually seeing the parts, even with knowledge, there is no way for me to determine what does and does not need to be replaced. i'm trusting them (i have no choice) to make informed decisions.

 

i'm can't help but be reminded of a parlor game BITD call "telephone" the premise of which was to show just how twisted (and humorous) a thought consisting of a single sentence can get when verbally passed from one person to another and then another, and another...

i suspect that Clemens might have had something to say regarding intermediaries and clarity.

 

update...

got email from rebuilder requesting about $2000 for the transmission rebuild. parts were about $700 and labor about $1300.

major parts were new "counter shaft" (i know it as a "layshaft") and one synchronizer. some needle bearings and a lot of gaskets, seals and a couple large bearings. about 12 hours of labor at what looks like about $90 (!) per hour, one of the few perks of a shop located in rural idaho, i guess.

said they would have the car in the shop (has it been sitting out in the weather all winter????) come this friday and begin final installation. looks like it won't be long now. hoping they won't find some major problem with the rebuild, like with the replacement block for instance, or some other unforseen issue.

 

It doesn't matter now, but 12 hours from start to finish, seems excessive _ it's not that complicated.

This is a complex manual box from my Bentley, it comes apart and goes together like a Chinese puzzle.
The 4th gear synchro cone was burned out, and not available, so I had to re-cut the grooves on my lathe, so I took the whole things apart and checked it over.
Took about 2 to 3 hours to get it apart first time around.

If I had to do it again, it would not take me 12 hours.

Everything looks like it's coming along for you.

Australian RR Forums: The Infamous MK VI Transmission Thrust Washer