I never cared for the original CLS55 or CLS63, but wow...this looks awesome. I'll take my SuperSport over it, but I wish Jaguar would take some of the styling cues from AMG. The quad square pipes are not going to last...this car is all about subtle flowing curves, not angles, so it doesn't fit at all. But that rear diffuser, skirts, and other touches will never leave anyone wondering if this is a run-of-the-mill CLS.

 

I don't particularly care for the new CLS design--too much going on in front of the rear wheel wells where there are 4 different planes coming together. Just too busy for my tastes.

I thought the old CLS63 looked good with the rear spoiler and the quad round tail pipes--better than the CLS550.

 

I am not a fan of the new design myself. It just looks like a CLS with some Cadillac CTS hardlines drawn in. I am not a fan of the headlights or taillights and I would be safe to say it won't win any design awards. It's all been done before.

 

I agree, this design sucks. And what's up with the squared up fender wells design copied from Ford Focus? Even the S65 and S63 look cheap with those.

 

You guys are nuts. Jag copied the 4 door coupe idea (cls, quattroporte, and others), the huge front grill (Audi), then rear end (bentley mulsanne), led lights ( Audi again)...no offense, but if "done before" is the standard by which you base a car's success...we're all in trouble. The question is whether or not mb has found a way to bring it all together nicely.

There's some serious bias on this site. The new cls is going to outsell the snot out of the xj. Any takers on that bet?

 

First saying Jag copied the 4 door coupe is like saying Rim, Motorola, and Samsung copied the tablet from Apple. It's just a new segment. The grille is a nod from the first XJ which was before Audi's had big grills and the rear end looks nothing like a Mulsannes and led lighting. Come on. I guess everybody copied doors from the Ford Model T.

It's just not a very good looking car. And by the way the Ford Focus will probably out sell the XJ. Does that make is a better looking car? I think not. I don't think anybody has bias' on here. If you look at their profiles most have owned or still Mercedes. A ugly car is just an ugly car. I personally didnt like the blacked out D-pillars of the XJ so I had mine painted. And the rear haunch of the new CLS AMG is from the S-class.

 

Expat, I'm all for an honest and good discussion, but you must operate under some basic laws of logic in reasoning. And I do feel that there are reasonable opinions on both side of the aisle, but let's separate the actual linear though from random.

First, the four door coupe is a relatively new design concept. Jaguar was not the first to produce that segment of car. That's empirical fact. What is the point of said fact? It's to point out that a prior poster's comment of "it's all been done before" is not, in itself, enough to discredit the effectiveness of a new automotive design. Even if similar elements are present, that does not mean that it's not a fresh look using some familiar concepts. Your Apple tablet argument doesn't counter mine. First, Apple was not the first to produce the tablet. Many companies have done it, and tablets have been around for almost 20 years. Apple was simply the first company to produce a tablet that gained main-stream momentum, and they did a fantastic job with it. When the first tablet was produced, however, it was the first tablet. There weren't arguements that the actual first tablet wasn't really the first one because the concept has been out there for some time while no one had actually produced one. Again, the point in saying that Jaguar was not the first to market with a 4 door coupe is to say that something seen before doesn't make a fresh version of it less valid. If you have a problem with the word "copied", just pick a word that is appropriate in your mind for using a design that is similar to one already in use by someone else. The diction isn't really important to me in this case.

If you'd like to take the dimensions of the first XJ grill, compare that with the refreshed Audi grills when they went big, and then measure the new XJ grill to see which one even approaches the same dimensions, we can certainly do that. You will lose miserably, but we can.

Interesting that in an interview with Callum, he mentioned the Mulsanne specifically in comparing the rear end of the new XJ. But what the heck does he know.

Whether the Ford focus outsells the XJ has no relevance. Now, how the XJ sells against another car specifically targeted to the same audience of the $80-$110k (depending on model) buyers...yes, I'd say that does have complete relavance. Does that mean that if the CLS sells much better than the XJ that the XJ is ugly? Of course not. It WOULD indicate that the idea of it being "ugly" is not a widely accepted one. And perhaps that's just a tad of an overstatement. So yes, sales numbers between directly cometing cars do tell some kind of story. Hard to imagine that idea could be missed and interpreted as any car with the most sales is better looking, even if that car is a $20k Ford. Comparing sales figures for the 7 series vs. S class vs. CLS vs. A8, vs. XJ, is something that any reasonable person would do in deterimining which vehicle was the most successful. I can assure you that the executives at each of these firms uses these comparison numbers. One would assume that under the definition of success would fall aesthetic appeal as a component.

The haunch is not from the S class. The S class began the flared rear fender trend with MB. The "haunch" is exactly what the definition of the word means, and the S class doesn't have it, nor is it intended to have a forward leaping design. The "haunch" in the CLS leans forward, like where the rear leg of an animal meets it's hip...hence the definition of the word. Look at the lines that run from the front quarter panel to the rear of the car, and you'll see that they travel downwards as you get to the rear quarter panel. That's what makes the "haunch". S doesn't have it, nor does it intend to.

You are, of course, entitled to think the CLS is the ugliest car ever invented. Please don't take my argument to in any way say that your opinion is somehow not valid. I'm just separating opinion from fact or logical argument.

 

Kid D, I to welcome honest and good discussion and both my logic and reasoning are sound so I shall retort.

First, the four door coupe designation was first applied to the low roof model of the Rover P5 from 1962 until 1973. So no it's not a new design concept.

Second, I didn't say Apple invented the tablet. What I was saying is just because a company like the ones I mention create something that another company revitalized which Apple did with tablet doesn't mean they are copying because like you said Apple didnt invent the tablet.

Third, we can agree to disagree on the grill because quite frankly if they copied the grill from anyone (which I doubt they did) I would say it was from Volvo and not Audi. And I have seen every video Ian Callum has made concerning the XJ and mentioning the Muslanne doesn't mean it looks like the Mulsanne.

Fourth, this orginal thread started with how a few of us just didn't like the new look. You are the one who through out the line I bet it outsells the XJ(not a direct quote) so you are one that equated sales volume to design. My point was just because a car sells more regardless of the price doesn't mean it did so based on design. As I have said in other discussion threads MB makes a ton of cars and they are consistently above average in their engineering which breeds customer loyalty. So even if Jag made the prettiest car on the planet MB would probably still outsell them.

Finally, I am not sure why you seem to be taking all of this personal I would think you were on the cls design team. At the end of the I just don't like the new design. And when I said it has been done before I am talking about the lines of the car. Just like the new BMW 5 series now looks like a 7 series. I'm just separating opinion from fact or logical argument as well.

 

The new CLS is awesome but tail lights look wrong and it's like under impression of VW Passat Coupe or whatever it is

 

Guys,
wow, what a response. Well, I got a '08 CLS63. Before that I had a'06 CLS500 right after it went on sale.
So in other words, I got a good comparison to the XJ.
First, the exterior styling was hot when it came out first. I can't believe the comments I got and how many people twisted their neck. The exterior design was simply next to perfect. I still like that part better then the XJ.
And nonethelss the personal taste and details, the new one looks just as hot.
BUT you are NOT comparing apples to apples here and I am sure you all know that.
Here is where the Mercedes wins in my opinion:
Performance, (Definately sportier), ride quality, exterior design, maturity. (technically an E Class). Thats it.
Here is what I did not like: Rear seating, rear passenger space and rear entry. 4 doors or not, consider it a coupe and a 2+2. Its OK as long as you don't expect rear comfort. (Which some do because of the 4 doors).
Interor design: Very bla, boring, and Mercedes clean like,
The XJ is a real sedan and therefore not comparable. Yet I find myself and others comparing the car to the CLS. More so, I even got both. Interesting.
I guess I wanted a CLS with the qualities of a sedan and the performance of the AMG, still some hot styling. What did I get; the XJ L SC
So there. For us enthusiasts looking for differenciating styling and design the answers seem to lay in those cars. Very interesting that this discussion is so vivid and that alone tells something. I doubt any marketing expert ever thought to pin those cars together. Yet there seems to be a group doing just that.
But owning both, here is what I also know: I don't drive the CLS anymore and I will sell it. Simply, I love the Jaguar so much more. Yes, its new, but still, Somehow it just feels so much better driving the XJ. I know thats just me. And I know after 6 years owning 2 CLS I know I simply got tired of it. Otherwise I really loved the CLS as much as I love the XJ now.
If you like it, go for it.

 

FYI, the Jaguar is NOT considered a 4 door coupe. It is a sedan with a "flowing" roof line. The CLS is considered a 4 door coupe.
At least that is how they are marketed.

And all that aside. These are really matters of personal preferance and taste. And that should be considered in all the discussions. There is no really right or wrong or something like that.

And, as this is a Jaguar XJ forum, not a CLS or general design forum.
The discussion is just fine here as long as it involves some comparison of the cars which in turn provides good information about the XJ.

It shouldn't be all personal because a discussion of this type involves a lot of personal preference and taste and we all know there is no right or wrong. Just strong opinions. I am not sure how important it really is for the readers of this forum to go into the details, what, why, when, sales numbers ect.

FYI, you probably know the CLS started as a show concept which was realized within 2 years of that show on the base of the e-class. The new model upgrade is obviously trying to tie it closer into the overall line as some of the design elements show. But that unfortunately means loosing some of its originality. I thought that is where the "S-styling fenders" ect came from. May be not. But who cares.

Ian Callum did to a good job. But as with all of these, there are things people like and some they don't. Personally I love the front of the XJ. I don't like the roof line as it is too much "coupe" style for my taste. (But that is just me). I somewhat like the rear. Its growing on me.
Where they outdid themselves is the interior. It may be polarizing but that was what in part sold the car for me. I simply love the interior. Won't find that boldness in any Germany car.

Again, my own opinions. May be they ad some food for thought. Even if I may have some of the facts backwards, that is simply the perception I have of things.

I truly find it amazing what strong responses these 2 cars evoke though. That means they hit some nerv. And that is great in the age of boring car design.

 

Well said Gears. I concur on most of what you said but I don't see where the CLS is sportier comparing stats. And while I disagree on the exterior design comment as while that is completely subjective. My friend traded in his Lexus GS 430 for a CLS 500 because he said though the Lexus was near perfection it just didn't have any character for him. I like the car as well design wise and spent quite of bit of time in it as his road partner and for me it was small. I am 6'3 and frankly just as boring as he said his Lexus was. I actually like the Lexus more but that was really because of all the bells and whistles and I am a nerd at heart. Now don't think I don't have issues with the XJL which I love. The touchscreen blows as far as responsiveness goes. The Navi seems like somebodies leftovers. My 3 year old Garmin Nuvi is better than this GPS. As I said before I completely hated the blackout pillars so I got them repainted to match the color of the car. And I just found out that if I want my parking aid to come in when I am slowly moving forward without pushing the parking aid button I have to go to the dealer to have them enable it. This is just plain stupid. It should be set for that by default. I hit a curb because I was expecting it to come on and it didn't. At the end of the day Gears is right. Every article, every video I have watched on youtube has never compared the XJ to the CLS. It has always been the 7 series, Audi A8, and the S-class.

 

Thank You ExpatJag. I really like hearing how others think about these cars. You are correct about the stats. When I meant "sportier" I have a hard time describing what I feel. It subjectively "feels" the CLS has more bite when kicking the pedal down at 45 mph or so. The Jag feels to have mor bite off the line. I believe the extra gear (7) in the Mercedes may have some to do with it. Otherwise, its simply a different character in the car.
If you would see the cars next to each other in the garage it almost looks comical. The CLS is so much smaller. Looks like almost a foot shorter.
I couldn't agree more with the Lexus statement. A good friend of mine finally got out of his Lexus 430 (I think it was his 3rd after a couple of 400) and bout the XJ L SC.
My wife drives a Lexus. They are too perfect. Which makes them boring to people like us.
And I couldn't agree more with you about the blacked out pillars. (Thats why I got a black car), and the Navigation, and touch screen are a complete joke. And I had the same problem hitting the curb. I never know where the front ends on the XJ.
And despite all that I totally love my XJ. Weird. Jaguar must hit a nerve right somewhere.

 

My tone was defensive an admittedly somewhat annoyed because I made a comment somewhat in jest, "you guys are nuts"...clearly I'm in love with the XJ since I just got one. In that posting I made some statements, and Expat decided to take each and every one of them to say..."nope, you're not just differing on your opinion with me, you're wrong, and here's why." That's annoying. To argue that all of these guys aren't just following each other with the larger grills, or that the 4 door coupe wasn't reinvented recently (even if someone made one in 1965). Why even argue those points...I don't know. Anyway, that's what brought on the hostility. I was simply sharing what I thought was a fresh new design, and you guys can decide if it's good or bad. I think ugly is a wild overstatement, and I doubt anyone really looks at it and vomits, but perhaps there are other cars that are preferred.

Comparisons are typically drawn with the 7 series, S class, and A8 because those are the premiere cars for the premiere brands. I, personally, feel the closest competitor in terms of what Jag set out to do is the Quattroporte, but they're never mentioned either. So, I am of the belief that the XJ is intended to compete with any sedans in their price category...regardless of manufacturer. The CLS just happens to do far less sales than the S, so that's why they're targeting the S...you don't go after the little cousin. The S is closer in size, and the CLS is closer in exterior styling elements. That's why it's really more like a Quattroporte which is also a blend of the S and CLS.

If I could have both the SuperSport and the new CLS in my garage...I would in a heartbeat.

 

Don't know about you. I totally love my XJ. But my old CLS63 still looks hot. I can't help it. I will miss it.

 

Guys, I wouldn't see this as hostility yet. A heated discussion is a good thing once in a while. There are a lot of quality people on this board which is nice to see.
Don't forget, just like in email, the written word often can't convey properly what is really meant and a lot of misunderstanding result from that. I see this happen on forums like this as well.
I for once love watching this discussion about CLS and XJ. I never thought I would see that.

 

At least in my mind, I still see Ford Focus clues when I look at all these new mercedes cars. When I fist saw the S class car in 2007 (redesigned) I immediately though "oooohhh nooooooo, ford focus wheel wells!!".... But that is just me, and I just don't like the new CLS design just because of that and all the squared corners. Just like on women, I like to see curves.

 

Well I am man enough to say let's hug it out bitch. Lol (Sorry about the Entourage quote just seemed appropriate) When I responded to you guys are nuts comment maybe I got defensive myself. It wasn't my intent I just thought it was a lively debate.

 

It's appreciated. Big bitch hugs all around. Now if MB would just make the CLS with the interior dimensions of the S...we might have a choice to make on buying the XJ.

 

But back to the design of the XJ. I like the headlights more than I like the one's on the XF. I happen to like the rear end and the taillights as well. The lines just flow. Now what I am not use to is the visibility out the rear window. OMG, from the outside it looks like a regular window but from the inside it is barely usable. I would hate to have people actually in the back. I guess I am just not use to it. The S-Class and 7 Series has what I would call regular back window visibility proportions.

My history with Jaguar goes like this. I was at work one day back in 2008 and saw an XF supercharged parked and I had an emotional reaction. It rarely happens but when it does I have learned to react. Same thing happened when I saw the current design of the S-Class. It also had the Bower and Wilkins sound system and having B&W in my home I knew it would be outstanding. So I went an test drove one and while I like it I thought it was too small for me and I really wanted a panoramic sunroof. I had been in a BMW X5 and a S-Class with one and it just opens a car up. The dealer told me that they new XJ was due out soon and that it would have a panoramic sunroof. So I signed up for the unveil on their website and patiently waited until it was unveiled by Jay Leno. I was then fortunate enough to have a friend working at the Frankfurt Car Show in 09 that got me on the day they allow for the Journalist. Which is cool cause you get to sit in the cars.(I got to sit in the RR Ghost, Aston Martin Rapide and the BMW 535 GT to name a few. And finally the new XJ which was a Supersport model. Besides the blacked out pillars I loved everything about the design. It just exuded coolness, glamour, and beauty. That emotional reaction thing happened again.

Now all things being said as many times as I have heard Ian Cullum use the word bespoke the XJ doesn't have many options which disappointed me. No soft close doors, No reclining back seats, Night vision, or heads up display. Again I am a tech nerd so you can imagine how upset I was when I found out I wouldn't be getting my dualview screen after seeing it in action. I am still fighting with Jaguar UK to get it installed based on me living in Germany.

I have interactive Jaguar as a friend on my facebook. I am always on the interactive jaguar website and subscribed to both of their youtube channels and have almost seen about every Jaguar XJ video on youtube and have many of them saved as favorites.

I am very disappointed in their dealership organization. It is not befitting of Jaguar to have the inconsistency I am hearing from other people about their dealerships. I think they need to get that under control or word of mouth may do them in.