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Yep & don't throw out the Moly. IMHO it's crucial.[/QUOTE]
Sorry NLGI... Meant to say.[/QUOTE]
BTW ~ anything with PTFE (Teflon) in it will have a very short lifespan.[/QUOTE]
I thought that stuff was forever, what it happens to it _ does it break down ?
I have it on my Bentleys front wheel bearings _ on the original bearings _they're 70 years old and in pristine condition.[/QUOTE]
My comment on oil film thickness & hydrodynamic lubrication are lost off the page.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
Yep & don't throw out the Moly. IMHO it's crucial.[/QUOTE]
Sorry NLGI... Meant to say.[/QUOTE]
BTW ~ anything with PTFE (Teflon) in it will have a very short lifespan.[/QUOTE]
I thought that stuff was forever, what it happens to it _ does it break down ?
I have it on my Bentleys front wheel bearings _ on the original bearings _they're 70 years old and in pristine condition.[/QUOTE]
My comment on oil film thickness & hydrodynamic lubrication are lost off the page.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
Argh! A modern lithium complex NLGI O or OO might be better but try a 1 with 3 to 5% Moly by mass. This seems to be a real challenge & I can't really picture the thing in my head.[/QUOTE]
No probs. I was looking for your response & could not find it. Calcium Complex O's & OO's, Plus 3 to 5% Moly is worth a try as well. The whole trouble is finding small packs. If I was still doing lab work I could send you samples but alas in retirement impossible.[/QUOTE]
BTW ~ anything with PTFE (Teflon) in it will have a very short lifespan.[/QUOTE]
I thought that stuff was forever, what it happens to it _ does it break down ?
I have it on my Bentleys front wheel bearings _ on the original bearings _they're 70 years old and in pristine condition.[/QUOTE]
My comment on oil film thickness & hydrodynamic lubrication are lost off the page.[/QUOTE]
With regard to your Bentley's hubs.
It undergoes fragmentation. The higher the temperature the quicker it fragments. It reaches nano particle sizes & is a terrible pollutant that gets into the food chain hence all the rising bans on it's use. If your Bentley bearings remain cool it will last but if severely heated by the brakes, as an example, it will break down into micro particles like many polymers & plastics.
It's problem is that you never get rid of it. It does pretty much last forever in smaller & smaller particle sizes until the oil film is thicker than the particle size in motion & hydrodynamic lubrication is achieved by the oil component of the grease.
In original form PTFE's coefficient of friction is 3rd lowest of any substance on the planet.
It is non-biodegradable in the human body[/QUOTE]
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 04-26-2022 at 06:14 AM.
I was able to read all that, but at least you know that I have read it now.
The PTFE will be OK in the spring barrel, there's no heat there to break it down.
The Bentley has drum breaks on the front and the car is 70 years old, so not driven like a race car that's for sure, but it does cruse along at 70 _ I'll keep am eye on it.
Just looking around for a Calcium Sulfonate grease _ so far I haven't anything with a NLGI number lower then 1.
This product from Amsoil, is the closest.
Someone is already using this, and he adds a bit of their oil on the springs after packing, but I don't think that's necessary.
The key is how it's packed.
Calcium Complex
Lithium Complex
Or as an excellent choice Polyurea Synthetic grease in a O anywhere.
You don't want straight Lithium or straight Calcium Greases. The complex versions are quite a different animal & totally different in manufacture. Far better protection & life inherently..
Typical Amsoil. That's a Calcium Complex with synthetic oil & I bet they they buy it in. Your Contactor is pushed to the extreme to manufacture that. Stratco contactors require pressure testing annually if you make that. We make it here in our local plant or at least used to. I've been out of touch with the local company for years as an Expat. The local company has been sold to Glencor because the Parent company did not want to upgrade the Cape Town Refinery to Euro 6.
I'm correct in saying all spring lubrication discussion will be done here? I will look it up daily.
The pictures are fantastic. Now I understand what the component looks like. Man that's a wide spring. I can see why it binds if not properly lubricated.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 04-27-2022 at 05:04 PM.
I think they are all the same except one is for high temps, one is for cold and one has an antibacterial agent in it.
The No. 730-0 is out, it's only available in a 5 gallon pail and a 35 gallon drum.
Lubriplate does make a Lithium Complex, with an NLGI in 0, but they only have it in 5 gallon and 35 gallon containers.
Can't find a Polyurea Synthetic in an NLGI in 0, they all seem to be a "2".
So far the calcium complex is the only option _ I just want to put this to bed.
{ the springs are 1-1/4 inches wide, there are 3 of them in the larger barrel(s) }
Argh ~ the usual packaging problem ~ these are high spec Industrial products.
Calcium Complex is fine but can you get it?
My whole S Type is greased with Polyurea Synthetic but I got an agent of ours to repack a 20 KG pail into 5KG tins.
Food grade products are fine. They are usually Polyurea & can tolerate high temperatures if needed. Many food plants want one product for all ie freezing & high temp all in one like paper machines that have an ambient end & a hot end. We have much of the paper industry with a product called Polystar Synthetic. I don't want this out in the general public. I show no favour to any oil company in retirement. The majors with the research budgets all make fine products. Some are specialists in some areas like EXXONMobil in nuclear. I hail from the Caltex, Chevron, Texaco empire. We are specialists in Potassium Borate technology and many other areas. ISO dewaxing is our process that we license out etc. etc. We have many firsts due to our massive technology spend. We pay our average research chemist over $500,000 p/a total burden. Can you believe it? Caltex was a 50/50 joint venture between Californian Standard Oil (that today trades as Chevron) & Texaco ~ hence the CALTEX. The parents became irritated when the child outgrew both of them. They did not like the tail wagging the dog so we merged in 2001. I was on the Federal Trade Commission "clean team" for that merger to rationalise product offerings of the three companies to achieve synergy savings.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 04-28-2022 at 03:25 AM.
Neither are Calcium Complexes. Ones a straight Calcium & the other an Aluminium complex
If I was forced to choose I would take the Aluminium complex & try it. I have zero experience of Aluminium complex greases. They are not common even in the food industry. None of our 3 companies have even considered them.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 04-28-2022 at 03:18 PM.
Anhydrous Calcium just means dry Calcium as opposed to Calcium containing water.
Sorry you are having a battle with small packs. But it's typical I'm afraid with superior industrial greases as they are generally sold to plants & OEM's that have no use for small packs.
The industry hates small packaging of greases. They would rather sell in bulk to a small agent or distributor that is prepared to repack into smalls.
The only exception that we made was for the mining industry where we modified a coffee filling machine to fill sachets. You just threw them whole into gearboxes plastic & all. Large gear sets just munch the plastic up into something like a crude VI Improver.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 04-30-2022 at 02:27 PM.
Another thing. I will use no oilco jargon on this thread. I realise that I have used the word "contactor" on this thread because that's what they are called. A contactor is nothing but a giant pressure cooker with stirring facilities. You produce your grease thickener by cooking it and it's components in a contactor. (the process is called Saponification). Once the thickener has been produced it is transferred to giant tanks with contra rotating paddles. There you add your additives & oil. Oil is added until the desired penetration is achieved i.e. 3, 2, 1, 0, 00 etc. etc.
Laboratory samples are taken all along the process as each step of manufacture has to be correct & repeatable. Reference samples are retained from every batch of final product.
If a batch of grease is found to be out of spec it is rejected and disposed of in an environmentally safe process.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 04-30-2022 at 07:15 AM.
I'll guess I'll be using the Aluminum Complex grease then.
The Lubriplate No.105 assemble grease would not have worked, the stuff separates, when I go to use it if I don't shake it, this light amber coloured oil comes out first, then the grease _ I have to remember to shake it.
It's an engine assembly grease, it's not meant to be used in a permanent application.
I don't think it's going to matter, as long as it's a "complex" and it's a NLGI #0.
I will be adding the Moly powder to it as well.
The problem is that greases should not bleed oil unless in motion. The oil should be re-absorbed by the thickener when stationary. This also applies to 0, 00, 000 etc. That's how grease is supposed to work. The thin greases require that re-absorbtion characteristic. Where Calcium Complex is so good. None of the premium greases I have mentioned will bleed.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 04-30-2022 at 02:31 PM.
I don't think there is anything as a Calcium Complex based grease with an NLGI number #0.
They are either Sulfonate or Anhydrous, when there is a Complex one available, it always a NLGI 1 or 2 _ most are 2.
What is so bad about Sulfonate or Anhydrous, will the pressure of the spring coils squeeze out the oil in the grease ?
Right now the Aluminum Complex grease is the most practical, it's just a silly gramophone motor, I'm not flying to the moon.
I also found this bit of info interesting:
"Calcium sulfonate grease eliminates grease complex lithium both on the data sheet and on real applications. The main difference between these two types of grease is that greasety calcium sulfonate generally does not need additives to meet certain performance requirements such as grease lithium complex".
And here is another short article that says that Lithium base greases and Calcium complex grease are on the way out.
Calcium sulfonate is just cheap general purpose grease. A bit of crap being spoken there. Pretty much performance level of a straight Lithium which is still predominant & every spares store will sell as a general purpose grease No 2. I'm talking HD industrial products with superior performance. Hence my love of Polyurea as an example. Many OEMS & bearing manufacturers demand it or your warranty is void on your steel plant Danieli Morgårdshammar or Voestalpine mill in steel manufacture as an example. We hold the sole approval for Voestalpine Continuous casters.
We make Calcium Complex in both a 0, & 00 as a Winch Gear grease & a Rockdrill grease for Mining. Available in sachets that last one shift for Rockdrills & 20 Kgs & 180Kg drums for the rest. We will also deliver in bulk to tanks at mines. Once again filled by converted coffee bag fillers in clear plastic. The product is green in colour.
Try the Aluminium Complex. Accept that any bleeding of oil is thickening the grease. Try & stir it back into the thickener with the 3 to 5% Moly by mass.
To suggest that Calcium sulfonate grease could match a Lithium Complex at our typical formulation is outrageous and with no additives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. BS. The Calcium Complex greases are difficult to make ~ yes. Our sales are on the way up globally. It gives your contactor a hard time at the pressures required so you have to test the contactor for wall thickness & pressure annually.
Calcium Sulfonate may well supplant straight Lithium over time but I doubt it unless it is ultra cheap. A bit of wishful thinking there. Both cheap & cheerful products. Every grease plant worldwide is set up the manufacture straight Lithium greases.
Use the Aluminium Complex product & see how it goes. All I'm doing is offering you superior products because you don't like the performance of the present products you have used.
No 2 penetration greases are the most commonly sold grease worldwide.
Canada is the most advanced country worldwide in Trackless Mining using LHD's from Finland (LHD = Low Haul Dump-truck). It would be interesting to take a look at one of their mines grease inventory if they are doing any drilling or using drag winches.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 05-01-2022 at 09:41 AM.
04-26-2022, 05:46 AM
