My 90 year old female relative went to the Jaguar dealership with her 2003 S-Type to get the key fob checked out. The battery seemed to be dead, so she went to a Batteries+ outlet and had a new one put in, but it still didn't work. She brought both fobs with her (she's owned the car since new). The dealer "made" her sign a paper saying she would pay $149 to have them look at the fobs! Two hours later she got both fobs back, one still doesn't work (they said it was corroded) and the other one they said will not last much longer! They want $355 to replace one of the fobs. She said no and left, but they tried to stop her by telling her that the car needed over $9,100 in repair work to make the car "roadworthy." They gave her a written estimate which included --

Replace Rear Toe Links (Found control arm bushing(s) worn/loose) $731.10
Perform Alignment (Found steering component(s) worn) $140.00
Replace left outer tie-rod end (Found steering component(s) worn) $363.68
Replace right outer tie-rod end (Found steering component(s) worn) $140.18
Replace both front shock absorbers (Found shock(s)/strut(s) weak/worn) $511.88
Replace right front upper control arm (Found shock(s)/strut(s) weak/worn) $728.85
Replace left front upper control arm (Found shock(s)/strut(s) weak/worn) $1,261.65
Replace both rear lower control arms (Found control arm bushing(s) worn/loose) $1,347.47
Replace left rear upper control arm (Found control arm bushing(s) worn/loose) $623.74
Replace right rear upper control arm (Found control arm bushing(s) worn/loose) $364.54
Replace both front strut mounts (Found shock(s)/strut(s) weak/worn) $105.39
Replace both rear sway-bar links (Found sway bar link(s) worn/loose) $400.80

On top of that, they want to

Replace fuel filter (Fuel filter appears original) $128.29
Replace left headlight assembly (Found cracked headlight assembly) $942.10 (I can't imagine what this is all about, I just cleaned both headlights and neither one was cracked, but maybe it was "new" damage that she caused, who knows!)

Additionally,

Replace leaking IMT seals (Found IMT seals leaking oil through upper intake manifold) $311.32

And then it says -- PERFORMED Windscreen washer bottle pick up screen cleaning and declog of mung (yes, they said mung) inside washer bottle (the bottle was spic and span, I cleaned it myself) (Found the windscreen washer pump working but not spraying) $149.00 (must be their hourly charge).

All in all, they told this poor 90 year old woman that she shouldn't drive the car in that condition and if she didn't want them to repair the car, they had plenty of good used cars on the lot and would be happy to sell her one! (This is the second time they've tried that trick on her) -- she demanded her keys and drove home. They charged her $157 -- which was the "diagnostic fee" plus tax.

The receipt says that they reprogrammed both remote fobs and both were working after the reprogramming.

WHAT'S THE GOOD NEWS?

Now we have a full, complete list of everything her car "needs" and we can work on getting these done at a more reasonable rate. I will probably be asking about some of the line items (like, do we really need to replace the control arms because the bushing is worn? etc.)

Thanks for letting me post this, it makes me feel better already!!! LOL

 

How could they program the fob if it was corroded? You should take the corroded fob back and tell them they have given you the wrong fob as this is corroded so can't be yours as they programed both of yours and they both worked according to them

 

Now that's a good idea!

 

Although this is not unique to Jaguar dealers, it matches the type of service I was inflicted with at my former dealership in Montreal. That, matched with their inability to correctly troubleshoot what was actually wrong- the purpose of my visit made a for a very disappointing experience.

Fortunately I now have an great indy where I am now.

 

And this is exactly the reason we can purchase a $70K car for $10K as soon as the warranty expires!

 

One of the benefits of living in the UK, lots of good indys and even a few good main dealers, but we spend the money we save on fuel.

 

Well I'd say the dealer just talked themselves out of any more business. You should name them so they're shamed, too, and help others stay away.

 

I'm surprised they didn't follow her home and offer to tarmac her drive as well.

 

The other time they did this was when the ABS light was on. They told her it would be more to fix it than the car was worth -- that was a couple years ago -- and they would gladly take it in trade, less the cost of repairs, and sell her a used car from their lot. They estimated the ABS issue would cost over $5,000. She got it fixed at a local shop for $1,500 -- still more than she had to pay, I believe, but she got the peace of mind she was looking for -- the dealership scared the hell out of her by telling her that driving the car with the ABS light illuminated was terribly dangerous and they didn't want her to take the car back until they either fixed it or she got another car. I'm so glad she has the presence of mind to tell them no.

I'm talking here about the Jaguar dealership in West Palm Beach, FL. They hosed this poor woman for several years by charging her $400 or more every time she stopped in for an oil change. I finally found out what she was paying and hooked her up with a local mechanic who was honest about his abilities (i.e. he didn't pretend to know something that he didn't) and charged her reasonable rates for routine maintenance. Now he's retired, so she feels like she has no option but to go back to the dealership.

I know of another indy in the area that I'm going to check out for myself (I have an XJ8) and will see if he's as good as others say he is and then refer her to him if he checks out.

 

West Palm Beach FL = lots of retirees with $$ = easy targets for predators who have no shame.

Very sad a Jag dealership would stoop to that level. Send a letter to Jag HQ with your concerns.

 

I agree - report these predators. Jaguar Corporate may not take any action since their prime directive is to increase revenue by every possible means, but reporting them remains the right thing to do....

Most local TV stations' news departments now have troubleshooting reporters who specialize in investigating and publicizing predatory businesses like this one. I would report this incident to these folks as well. I'm betting they'll jump on it for you....

 

Well, somebody has to be the devil's advocate so it might as well be me....although I'll admit that it's a struggle to do so in this case.


Recommending repairs that are not needed is fraud...and is often the kiss of death for a repair shop. It can't be excuse no matter how you slice it. However I don't see much in the conversation asserting that the repairs are not needed. They might well be legitimate recommendations. Although I only occassionally browse the S-type section I must say that the items on the list look rather familiar as common problem areas on the S-type.



As for prices, well, we all know that that dealer prices are very high. They can charge as much or as little as they like. If they charge more than the market will bear, they'll eventually suffer. We could spend hours discussing pricing strategy. And we live in a free enterprise, free will world.

*IF* we're asserting that they inflate (the already high) prices when a perceived "easy victim" comes along, well, that's obviously quite a different story.

Is that indeed what we're asserting?



That leaves us with sales technique. If we (perhaps generously) assume the the repairs recommendations are legitimate then how they are represented comes into question. Overstating the severity of a problem.....using scare tactics....is deplorable. "Weak/worn" suspension parts won't *necessarily* render a car unroadworthy. Less than optimal steering/handling characteristics? Very plausible. Clunks/rattles? Likewise plausible. But unroadworthy? I dunno. I'd say that an awful of wear and weakness must be observed to describe a car as unroadworthy.

I don't know how severe the problems are. Maybe the car has 150k miles and the suspension is shot. Replacing bushings, ball joints, etc is a very common repair topic on Jag forums, after all.

But everything in my gut is telling me that the car in question isn't *that* bad and that scare tactics *are* being used.

There's no way to justify that.

I'm glad she had the sense to say "no".


Cheers
DD

 

TV station reporter/investigators live for stories like this. One such here in LA, channel 2 (CBS) has a nearly full time job just busting LA City employees.
Decades ago, I had a beef with SoCal Edison Co. Contacted this type of investigative reporter and they came to my house and did my story. It appeared the next night on TV and the following day I received a call from the local Edison area manager. She apologized and fixed problem.

 

Probably not entirely accurate.

Corporate Jaguar certainly wants their dealers to be profitable. I doubt, though, that they'd support profitabilty by "every possible means". That is, I doubt that they'd actually support fraud.

OTOH, they'd also likely be reluctant to intercede in (what they consider to be) private disputes between dealer and customer.



Yes, because, although a sprinkling a customer complaints about a dealer might not get much attention, a steady and long lasting flow of complaints about a particular dealer probably will. That's why reporting is important.




They sure will, if they have the repair shop dead to rights!

Cheers
DD

 

A 90 year old woman is an easy target but that's happening to everybody. I've noted that the car repair business is a very easy scam nowadays. Probably 90 out of 100 adults could not identify one single part under the hood of their car and fewer still have any idea whatsoever how any of those parts work. The light comes on to warn you that something needs service so you take it in. The service advisor tells you it needs $2000 worth of repairs and rattles off a bunch of terminology that you don't understand. They know that probably 75% of people just go ahead and agree to the repairs. You're in a hurry, you've already taken off work to get it there and don't want to bother with taking it somewhere else for a second opinion. They've got you.

Its kind of sad. When I was a kid in a blue-collar neighborhood, my father and most of the men in the neighborhood worked on their own cars, at least basic stuff like tuneups and brakes. It was a universal guy-thing. If you didn't know to set points, your masculinity was suspect. If you took your car into a mechanic and told him you already checked this and replaced that, he wasn't likely to tell you that you needed those items. Nowadays, I don't know very many guys who do their own wrenching, even guys who own classic cars tend to leave the wrenching to somebody else. Today, most men are as susceptible to car repair fraud as the 90 year old lady.

 

<snip>


Yes. And no


Having spent 30+ years in the car repair industry I believe that *fraudulent* auto repair is on generally on the decline. Slowly but steadily more and more shops are trying to lift themselves out of the ditch.

In some cases it's a realization that it hurts the industry and, after all, there's plenty of *honest work* to sell....so why turn yourself into a crook?

In other cases, consumerism/consumer awareness has (thankfully) forced the change.

In still other cases shops have become more sophisticated and have learned how to touch the edges of fraud without jumping in with both feet.


What you'll be seeing more and more of in the future....it's already been happening at bigger/smarter shops/dealers.....is service advisors getting professional training in sales techniques. Nothing fraudulent, no scare tactics, no strong arm stuff.....but instead learning about the meet-and-greet, identifying hot buttons, identifying the decision maker, overcoming objections, selling value, selling benefit, closing the sale, etc.

So, be prepared

Cheers
DD

 

Just to let you all know...

First, she went to the dealership ONLY to get her remote looked at, and they MADE her pay the $149 diagnostic fee even though she said she didn't want them to look at the car. She reminded them that ALL she wanted them to do is look at the remote. They bullied her into signing a paper saying that she agreed to let them do the diagnostics.

Secondly, the car has about 30,000 miles on it. I put over 4k on it in April myself. It handled just fine, but did exhibit some clunks, etc that would indicate worn bushings.

Finally, even though she asked several times to let her leave, they kept her there for two hours while they did the diagnostics. She even reminded them that she didn't want them to do that, but they had the keys and the car so she was forced to wait.

 

Thanks for the further clarification. Shameless *******s....

What say you now, Doug?

 

Sounds pretty rotten to me! As I mentioned, I took on the role of devil's advocate with some reluctance in this case.

Cheers
DD

 

That becomes either forcible detention or theft ... depending on the mood of the nice police officer arriving on the scene after a call to 911.