Vance, what you experienced is real. Your STR held its own against a formidable autobahn-canyon carver. The V10 M is not a torque monster but a high winding-high-end breather. An STR with an uncorked intake and exhaust has a low-end edge over the V10 M. Bob hit the nail on the head...torque is what gets the metal moving off the line. When it comes to street racing I'll take 25 lb/ft torque over 25 hp anyday. Ask an STR owners like myself, ttwotees, and qwikcat, who uncorked the intake and exhaust and popped on a 3 lb pulley; how their STR behaves on a cool day or when not heat-soaked....An ANIMAL! As it now sits, I bet my STR develops on or near 500 lb/ft of torque. The increase in low end dig is much noticeable. The H&R Sport springs help prevents the suspension from soaking up precious unsprung hp too. Vance, pop on the Mina 1.5 pulley I sent you, Magnaflow's 50 state legal (not the 49 state legal) hi-flow cats, x-pipe, delete stock resonator, keep 2.25" pipe, pop on Magnaflow 4" tube mufflers (thanks Chris) before the rear axle, dump out of a pair of Borlas (thanks to Chris again) then run your M6 friend again....

 

Not to hate bro but i think your estimate of 500 ft lbs is grossly overrated. I have $1000 dollars that says there is not a properly reading dyno in the country that youd put 500 ftlbs on. Why have i come to this conclusion??? Because your own RISKI has videos of his full bolt on and pullied S-type R putting 370 to the wheels on youtube. So, subtract around 100 and you have the right number. My car puts down 425/426 from the factory and stock the SRT8 puts 360-370 to the wheels on a dyno. Your car has what? 405 which actually comes closer to 350ish on a dyno. Do you even know what you run at the track?? RISKI ran high 12's from what i gather.

 

RISKI also has a video of his car getting waxed by a buddy driving an M5. All im saying is that this guy reminded me of me. He actually dynoed and modded his sedan, and then took it to the track. His car was quick and im sure if he were here today he would agree that the 5.0 V10 that comes in the BMW is hard to beat. Even for a modded S-type R. Thats all im sayin and what im basing it on. Gotta give respect where its due, and the M5/M6 are badass when put in the right settings. IDK how much slower the convertible M6 is so who knows, maybe that made the difference.

And yea, like the other guy said, unless its programmed that way (prob not) then you have to hit the "M" button on the steering wheel to get the full 500hp. Im pretty sure it has 450 normally. There are also a ton of different transmission and suspension settings. And despite not being a "torque monster" the M overcomes torque with gearing, he has 7 of em, you dont.

 

I both agree yet beg to differ with ya jetblack. I met with Phil, owner of Eurotek. He provided me with official dyno figures of his basically stock 05 STR with a K&N a/f, Milotek exhaust, stock pulley, and his ECU tune; it dynoed at 435 hp @ 488 lb/ft torque. In contrast to his 05 STR, I run a K&N drop-in a/f and "Mafioso" air intake tube (together dynoed at 13 hp @ 7 lbs/ft. trq.), low temp. thermo., 3 lb pulley (raising her to 16 lbs. boost est. 35 hp+ @ 40+ lb/ft trq.), free flowing exhaust: hi-flow cats, x-pipe, Magnaflows/Borla, (est. 25+ hp @ 25+ lb/ft trq.). In April she was dynoed (while heat soaked) at or near 450 hp (380 crank hp). The tech. estimated that if she were "cool" (not heat soaked) she would dyno at or near 475 chp @ 500 lb/ft trq."; 120 lb/ft more than the V10 M6. Yes, the M6 is more technologically advanced, puts out 500 hp, has a 7 speed wet clutch manual-mated automatic, but it's major deficit is that it's 400 lbs heavier than the STR. 400 lbs. is a 50+ hp @ 50+ lb/ft trq. deficit. It's final drive ratio is only slightly lower than that of the STR. One of my patients has a bone stock low mileage 03 STR and is a veteran street warrior. My modded 03 STR out pulls his STR so hard off the line it makes him giggle; affirming my STR a formidable opponent to the latest street metal. In regards to Riski, and not to mar his good name...not all STR owners set up their cars the same. Though the V10 M is a wonderful machine; if you search YouTube, you will find other stock cars out-pulling the V10 M. The Jaguar XKR (0-60 in 3.8 seconds) and XFR (0-60 in 4.0 seconds) and MB C63 (480 hp, 0-60 in nearly 4.2 seconds); all quicker than the M6. Why? Because they are supercharged (Jags) or have more cubic inches (MB). At the present, members of this forum are working on an STR Eaton M112 upgrade and "Killer Chiller" plus ECU tune that will yield between 100 and 150 hp and trq.

 

Dude ive been around the block with dynos and stock vehicles. All these advertised crank hp numbers you talk about, convert to less on a dyno. Im not sure if you are confused about which is which but im a bit confused after reading the last post.

Crank HP is what the manufacturer will advertise - there are several factors that determine how much of this gets to the ground. Parasitic drivetrain loss saps an average of 20% of the manufacturers advertised numbers. An auto transmission will typically put down a few less HP than a manual with the same setup. I had 2 LS1 F-bodies with the exact same bolt on setup that put down a difference of 20 hp on the same dyno (322-343) even though the auto was easier to drive faster. My point is that crank HP is a freaking advertising gimmick and is not even discussed amongst those who have been on a chasis dyno. That is where the REAL numbers lie. And bro, i can tell you that no bolt on S-type will put much more than 400 to the wheels in hp or tq. If you have someone who disagrees then id like to see a dyno vid with the guy showing numbers on the computer screen right after the pull. I run low 12's (on spray) in a car that weighs more than yours and i promise that im lucky to see 500 to the wheels on the juice, speaking hp or tq. Maybe 550 to the crank but you wont see me advertise that. Crank hp is bs. My guess is that you put roughly 370-385 to the wheels in both hp and tq and run a mid to low 13 in the 1/4 at 106-8ish. I compel you to go to the nearest drag strip next friday with a video camera if you disagree. I seem to be having trouble posting pics of my ride on your forum but i can post some links to videos of my car running at the drag strip if yall would like.
YouTube - viper kill.wmv

No offense just sayin, and after re-reading your post i think we may be on the same page but im not sure lol.
And your right that Jag does make some beasts that will hang with and even beat the M5/M6 but i just dont agree that the S-type is one of them. Its more competition with my SRT and my SRT will get waxed on motor by a properly driven/setup M5/M6.

 

Hey guys, I didn't mean to start anything.
My comments weren't so much a competitive comparison as a contrast of those two cars at that time on those roads.

A point of order here ... It's a 6 speed manual. That's why he got a great deal on it because very few folks who buy such cars want that these days. Witness that Ferrari no longer offers a manual with Lamborghini soon to follow.

But here's another reason you might not like having this convertible over the STR. Hiway mileage for him is 18. He's driven to the Florida Keys and back in it. Though I'm sure some guys on here could get 26 or so out of it just like those STRs that get 30 on the hiway too ...

Well my boots are no longer tall enough to deal with the environment on this here thread so I'll cut out now and let you'all get back to the normally scheduled programmin'.

 

Bob, jetblack and I are still having a conversation, not an argument. Your post is still cool, and thanks for looking out for both of us. jetblack, go to dragtimes.com, the basically stock STR's (K&N a/f) were running between 4.8 seconds and low 5 second 0-60's. The lowest 1/4 mile was 13.1 seconds @ 110 mph. Jaguar's official track testing of these cars revealed an average of 5.3 seconds 0-60 and a 13.5 second 1/4 mile. We understand chp subjugates to rwhp in the real world. As I mentioned earlier, my heat-soaked STR dynoed not too way far off from 400 rwhp. This is for all STR owners: As we work on maintaining a cooler intercooler and charge cooler charges, we come closer to preventing the ECU from pulling timing and dumping fuel as a function to preserve the engine. A "Chiller Killer" is available for the STR for $650. It's only a matter of time when someone here properly cracks into the ECU to alter a/f ratios, timing, etc. A LSD differential is available albeit at a hefty cost. I'm discussing an LSD conversion with lower gears with a local rear end expert. Hopefully we all will benefit with an affordable unit. One of our members, Avos (Belgium), has the same engine in his XKR belting out 600+ hp thanks to its twin screw s/c. He was commissioned to work on a customers STR which I believe eventually made 500+ chp. He assures the STR can be made into a boulevard and track bruiser. jetblack, your vid of the Mopar Viper kill was awesome and inspiring.

 

Sorry if you felt as though we hi-jacked your thread to make our own comparisons dude, that was not my intention. And if i'm coming off as though i don't like the STR then i apologise because that is not the case. Wish i knew someone with one i could help mod and go to the track with. Not so much as competition but to see what we could make it do. After all, it is a sleeper sedan just like mine. Id love to tear into some 4.6 GT's, 5.7 HEMI's and stock LS1's in a type R. Does Snow Meth Injection have a kit for the STR?? Id look into methanol, some sort of front mount intercooler (not sure of stock location) at least 8-10 lbs from the blower (ported and polished of course), a cold air intake, ported and polished throttle body, some catless exhaust with a pair of SLP loudmouths to make the V8 roar and IDK how do you guys interface with your ECU?? We MOPAR guys use the Diablosport Predator or their new Trinity programmer. I can adjust timing + or - ten degrees, idle RPM, tune out torque management, change shift points, change rev limits, tire/rim size, tune out TCS, adjust fan settings, transmission line pressure etc. Best part of the tool is the datalogging capability. So i can see what my A/F is without the use of a wide band to see how the adjustments i made exactly affected the car. I can watch my air intake temps rise in real time as i foot brake the car to launch, go back and watch it over a million times if i like (its recorded). I can see how much ignition timing is being pulled in real time at what RPM, gear etc. Its awesome and i'm sadly under the impression that yall don't have such a tool.

 

jetblack, all the tools and abilty to change the ECU and TCM that you mentioned would be an STR modders dream. There's a few outfits that will flash the ECU with a performance curve for $995, but that's that and we're not sure it would benefit. A few members here are working on the ability to reprogram the ECU and TCM. This forum's Mafioso, developed and sold his air intake elbow to just about every STR owner here. It really woke up the intake end of things. He's presently working on a "Chiller Killer", ECU tune, and blower mod. Thanks for your interest in the STR. We'de sure appreciate your input and/or development of performance parts for this beautiful car.

 

The guy i send my datalog files to, and makes all of my tune adjustments is a legend in the SRT8 community. He actually is one of the developers of the Diablosport handheld programmers. At the very least i could send him an e-mail conveying the high level of interest for such a tool amongst a specific (and rather large) group of car owners, and potential customers. They make them for so many different cars that its worth a try.

My question to you guys as a group is how do these tuners (however few and far between) interface with the ecu to actually adjust spark and fuel curves/maps???? Someone had to have a way to create this "flash" cookie cutter program that the tuners are installing. Someone in Europe has to have developed SOMETHING?? Maybe im wrong?

I wonder if yall could put some colder plugs in with your gap closed a bit, and run a 100 shot on some good fuel without issue. I know many of our SRT4 brethren run dual power adders with impressive results. Don't be afraid of nitrous guys! If you treat it like a science and take all the proper precautions then the gains to be had are insane for the cost and its just as safe as any other form of boost. Id run a stock pulley tho, to make tuning more simple. Im currently working on deal for a Kenne Bell 3.2L twinscrew kit for my car used from my buddy for $4K. He is in mexico on vacation and may not go for it anyway, but if he does then my whole kit will go for $500!! Plug and play lol.

 

jetblack, I'm positive that many STR members would be elated if your tuner could tune the ECU and TCM. ChrisSTR says he has a tuner in NY who can tune the STR. Yes, the outfits in the U.S. who sell ECU tunes are flashers. The ECU is shipped to them and next day it's back with a flashtune of unknown parameters. Phoenix CoachWorks in the UK, fits its 3 lb pulley on the STR. Paramount Performance fits an exhaust then dyno tunes STR's to 475 hp. They will accept ECU shipped to them, but the tune is limited. We're patiently waiting to see if Kenn Bell will release a BlowZilla, etc. for the STR...just very little interest and demand for this car. 75 hp shot NO2 has been used on the STR without ill effects. I'm personally waiting to use it once the major tuning is performed on motor alone. Sounds like you know your poop on buildups' dude. You're fortunate and we're jealous that Dodge has decent tuning support. Please let us know if your tuner thinks he crack into the STR ECU and TCM, thanks.

 

This was in my email a min ago....

Thank you for your email.
I will be out of town until July the 25th.
I might be able to respond to your email in the evenings.
Johan


--
Sincerely:
Johan M

...I will let you know when he gets back to me.

In the mean time, if you guys can come up with a name of a speedshop or even better, a phone number to one STATESIDE that does any form of ECU reprogramming we can make some more progress. I am going to call Paramount Performance in England and see if they will talk to me about it some tomarrow.

 

It's not that I "particularly" care about this thread but you guys are discussing something totally irrelevant to the threads topic and that makes it harder for people to find. It really should have it's own thread.

Maybe a moderator can move that portion over to a new thread? I'd like to see if you guys get anywhere on this. I'm not sure if there are enough STRs to make it worth anybodies effort to do this but hey it's worth a shot.