Cranks, I smell fuel, won't start. Here's what I've done/replaced:

- accel-to-the-floor while starting to clear the bores (bore wash). Crank/wait, crank/wait, eventually, the car sort of almost sputters to life, but not quite then dies. Continued cycles of this result in white smoke out the back, but no life.
- Removed plugs, added a little oil (bore wash-induced lack of compression). Plugs were observed to be saturated with fuel. Tops of some pistons sighted down the plug wells were speckled with carbon deposits.
- I replaced the crank sensor a while back, thinking it might be going bad. Changed nothing, but I kept the "old" one. Swapped it back in. No good. (note, the "new" sensor was not a Jag-brand, so could be dodgy, and may have failed - I guess I could test them?)
- I had previously replaced the fuel-rail pressure sensor (again with an off-brand), and had recently been getting a MIL with a code indicating the output voltage was high. Culprit?
- Checked fuel pressure while cranking: 35psi. I attached gauge to the schraeder valve on the fuel rail atop bank 2. Note, there is zero pressure when I'm not cranking the engine. Foot-to-the-floor while cranking results in zero pressure. Otherwise, it's about 35psi. Seems low.
- Battery is new, and it is being kept charged while I'm troubleshooting.
- Full tank of fuel.
- Replaced spark plugs. They were all pretty fouled. Clearly, I have an underlying rich mixture problem, too. Related?
- Fuel pump is only a few years old, and is a retrofit XFR unit (see my other thread about my Frankenstein XF/R tank swap to solve the leaky flange recall on my car).

So, I'm thinking about:
1. Replace the fuel pressure sensor with a Jaguar OEM unit.
2. Replace the crank sensor with a Jaguar OEM unit.

Does my car have camshaft position sensors? I know the 3.0 has them. If so, where the heck are they?

I'm thinking #2 is likely to get me back on the road, and #1 could be the source of my mixture problem.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Ken

 

Does the PATS light go out OK, or does it flash rapidly then a code?

Yes it has CMP sensors. Details w/ pics in workshop manual - free download.

Doubt it's CMP. CKP, yes could be. Ideally you'd watch its signal e.g. with a scope as you crank.

I was expecting more like 55psi but I think it ought to try to start with less. The fuel pressure should NOT drop after key off, at least only very very slowly.

 

I don't think the 4.2L engines suffer from bore wash. Nikasil engines only.

 

In reverse order:

Re: 35 psi while cranking "seems low". What are the actual specifications? Don't just guess. If Jaguar says you should see X value and you're out of specs, you're spinning your wheels looking at other stuff. Also, the pressure should hold when not cranking. Lots of possible causes there, such as a bad check valve. I'd suggest figuring out why the pressure drops off like that. At the same time, verify fuel pressure against Jag specs.

If (big if) fuel pressure is low, I wonder if the fuel mix is too lean to properly ignite, especially with lower compression on a cold engine. Once the plugs get wet, even from a lean mixture, they won't fire. What I'm getting at is you may not have a rich condition at all, but wet plugs from a lean condition. But whether rich or lean is almost immaterial. Find the fuel pressure specs and go from there.

Re: Fuel rail pressure sensor code. Can we get the actual code? The ECM was trying to tell you something. We can't help without the code.

Re: CKP sensor. What symptoms previously made you think it was failing? On Ford vehicles of the same era, a bad CKP can indeed cause a crank/no start condition, but not set any codes or turn on the MIL. I can't prove Jaguar is the same way, but it's a reasonable hunch. I'm not one to blindly throw money at a problem, but it wouldn't hurt to install a genuine Jag (or MotorCraft) part. You can check them for continuity between the pins. An open circuit is obviously bad, but good continuity is no guarantee the part is good.

Before possibly getting sidetracked with the CKP, I'd still suggest making sure the fuel pressure is within specs, and figuring why it drops to zero. Fix the known faults first, namely the pressure drop to zero, before digging elsewhere.

 

Fair enough. This is what I found about fuel pressures:

, Supercharged, Denso Engine Managment
Idle speed 3 bar (43.5 psi)
Wide Open Throttle 5 bar (72.5 psi)

I didn't know there was a check valve. Where is it?

The codes I've seen are P0193, and occasional P0171. Fuel trims support a rich condition, as does the condition of the plugs - which were basically new. Also, my fuel economy had fallen off a lot in the couple of weeks leading up to this. Lean start/rich burn sounds like a fuel regulation problem, eh?

I'm saving so much in technician labor, that I may as well shotgun the problem. So: check valve, fuel rail pressure sensor, ckp. Replace one at a time until I have a winner winner?

 

There is also the possibility that I'm being affected by a the problem underlying the XF fuel pump recall, since I have an XF tank, pump, and part of an XF fuel control module (custom module from the boffins in Vienna)...

 

Oh, and the problem which led me to replacing the CKP sensor was intermittent hard starting and frequent stumbles or stalls after starting. Changing the fuel rail pressure sensor seemed to have mostly ironed that out - but not quite. Which led me to thinking there was an out of spec problem with the after market pressure sensor. Well, that, and the codes...

I just got off the phone with Jaguar of Seattle and they want $260 for the crank sensor and the FRP sensor can't even be ordered. So, I'm now checking the Lincoln parts list and, strangely, I was told by the parts guy there that the same year Mitsubishi Galant may have some compatible parts. I had no idea they were a DEW98 car...

 

DEW98 isn't about sensors etc.

It's largely the metalwork below your feet. Someone provide more detail...

 

Yeah, I've debunked this. The power trains in the s-type are radically different from anything offered in the Galant. Parts guy was trying to be helpful, but was clearly misinformed as to the specifics.

Nothing to see here. Move along

 

I'll check PATS tomorrow.

 

Well it's got very little to do with the power train ! as well as the platform the car sits on ,
I wouldn't compleatly rule out the relevance of compatible parts on japeneese cars , as all the sensors on the s type are infact Japanese sensors .
And I can confirm the STR MAF is the same MAF fitted to an ej20 turbo Subaru Legacy and Wrx ,
Not saying that all s types share this piticular MAF , be cause NA is differant .
If I were you I'd unplug the MAF and see if the car fires up on default settings .
Mine failed causing massive rich conditions with no codes at all .

 

I don't have an '05 manual available, but per this training guide from '03, the fuel pressure should be as follows:

"3.8-5.0 bar referenced to inlet manifold pressure"

That's from page 97 here:

http://www.jagrepair.com/images/Elec...E%20Update.pdf


If still applicable to your '05, you should see a minimum of 55 psi (3.8 bar).

That's problem #1.

Whether that will entirely fix your no-start I can't say. You'd think it would at least kinda sorta run at a lower pressure, even if not smoothly. However, you've got a definite fault there, so fix that before doing anything else.

Now why is the pressure low? I'm not well versed on the '05 supercharged system. The training guide mentioned the fuel pressure varying with inlet manifold pressure. How it does this I do not know. On my '02 V6, if I remember correctly, there's a mechanical fuel pressure regulator that has a vacuum line connected to the intake manifold. From what I've been reading, your '05 does NOT have a fuel pressure regulator, but please look into that further.

I think (not 100% sure) the '05 varies the fuel pressure exclusively by controlling the output of the fuel pumps. It looks like the ECM monitors all sorts of things, including intake manifold pressure, and sends a signal (through another module) to control the pumps.

Check valves? From page 102 of that same training guide linked above, it looks like there are two of them, one for each pump, in the tank. I'm not seeing anything on the fuel rail, but that diagram may be simplified, so don't read too much into it.

Do you have a scanner? If not, I highly recommend getting one. I'm very curious what fuel pressure the ECM thinks is present. You had mentioned attaching a mechanical pressure gauge to the fuel rail and only seeing 35 psi. I wouldn't be surprised if the problem is as simple as a fuel pressure sensor being inaccurate. It's telling the ECM you've got 55psi, when in reality, you've got much less. The ECM is fat, dumb, and happy and making its calculations based on what it is told, versus what is really present.

That still doesn't solve the fuel pressure dropping to zero after shutdown, but one crisis at a time. That may be related to your retrofitted pumps, so keep that on the back burner. It may have been like that all along, but you never noticed it until now.

A couple of threads you may find of interest, including part numbers for the fuel pressure sensor:


https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...3-p0191-85703/


https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...s-power-77995/


As far as shotgunning some other parts, hold off. It's rare, but on occasion new parts can be bad from stock. Or something may get disturbed in the process of fixing something else. Work on one issue at a time (for now, the low fuel pressure) to avoid creating new problems. That's one luxury we shadetree mechanics have over a professional shop. The pro needs to fix it right the first time to avoid a callback, so is more likely to change parts as a precaution at your expense.

 

The symptoms sound like my 2000 4.0 S-Type when the timing chain tensioner broke.

 

Hmm, interesting. What did it take to diagnose that? Did the cams not rotate at all? Or had the chain jumped but the cams were still rotating?

What was the cranking speed like when you turned the key to start? Was the RPM normal as before? Or was it faster, slower, or erratic?

 

The 05 STR doesn't have a regulator. It adjusts fuel pressure through basically PWM via the pumps. Mine has only one pump, since they updated the system for the XFR, so at least there's less to replace.

I have a new press sensor and CKP sensor coming. I'm going to smoke test the vacuum system while I wait.

I hope it's not the timing chain tensioner. I can do the work, but what a PITA. I'd take the opportunity to replace the chain, too, if that were it.

I have an OBD scanner, but nothing like what the dealer has. Can you recommend something that gives me more data than your basic dongle and Torque?

 

FWIW, my crank sounds normal and is about 150rpm. I'll record what it sounds like and link a YouTube video tomorrow.

 

Sorry, typo. CAFE = XFR.

 

Well, I verified the fuel rail pressure sensor is not a match. I have the MFR part numbers to basically every sensor involved in the fuel injection system.

I forgot to say I swapped in a new MAF as well. No joy...

 

Ken, I want to make sure I understand you correctly. Based on this comment in your initial post, there seems to be some ignition, right? Might be weak, might be at the wrong time, but there seems to be something happening in the ignition department?


I just want to be sure the low fuel pressure isn't a red herring.

 

The white smoke might be the oil burning off.