'05 STR Won't Start
#41
I was gone a few days camping, just me, my beloved wife, and no cell coverage. Upon my return, I had planned to read you'd followed my advice, got the fuel pressure back within specs, and the car started right up. The only thing left was for you to craft a lengthy follow-up singing my praises. You obviously have not been reading from the script.
With the new sensor, your scanner says the fuel pressure is now good. What is the mechanical gauge doing? Did the electronic (scanner) and mechanical gauge readings both change with the new sensor? It's rare, but I'd still triple-check the mechanical gauge reading against something else just to be sure. For example, you can check a tire's pressure (or any convenient source of compressed air) with an ordinary tire gauge. Then check that same pressure with your fuel pressure tester. That's what I've done to make sure my fuel pressure tester is fairly accurate.
After that, I'd guess checking for a spark is next. With 8 separate coils, it's hard to imagine losing all cylinders at once, but definitely check.
#42
#43
Ken, Ken, Ken...
I was gone a few days camping, just me, my beloved wife, and no cell coverage. Upon my return, I had planned to read you'd followed my advice, got the fuel pressure back within specs, and the car started right up. The only thing left was for you to craft a lengthy follow-up singing my praises. You obviously have not been reading from the script.
With the new sensor, your scanner says the fuel pressure is now good. What is the mechanical gauge doing? Did the electronic (scanner) and mechanical gauge readings both change with the new sensor? It's rare, but I'd still triple-check the mechanical gauge reading against something else just to be sure. For example, you can check a tire's pressure (or any convenient source of compressed air) with an ordinary tire gauge. Then check that same pressure with your fuel pressure tester. That's what I've done to make sure my fuel pressure tester is fairly accurate.
After that, I'd guess checking for a spark is next. With 8 separate coils, it's hard to imagine losing all cylinders at once, but definitely check.
I was gone a few days camping, just me, my beloved wife, and no cell coverage. Upon my return, I had planned to read you'd followed my advice, got the fuel pressure back within specs, and the car started right up. The only thing left was for you to craft a lengthy follow-up singing my praises. You obviously have not been reading from the script.
With the new sensor, your scanner says the fuel pressure is now good. What is the mechanical gauge doing? Did the electronic (scanner) and mechanical gauge readings both change with the new sensor? It's rare, but I'd still triple-check the mechanical gauge reading against something else just to be sure. For example, you can check a tire's pressure (or any convenient source of compressed air) with an ordinary tire gauge. Then check that same pressure with your fuel pressure tester. That's what I've done to make sure my fuel pressure tester is fairly accurate.
After that, I'd guess checking for a spark is next. With 8 separate coils, it's hard to imagine losing all cylinders at once, but definitely check.
P0193 is gone. However, I now have:
P0300 - multiple cylinder misfire
P0301
P0302
P0303
P0304
P0305
P0306
P0307
P0308 (every cylinder is misfiring)
P1316
P0445 - Evaporitive Emission Control System Purge Control Valuve Circuit Shorted
P1000 - Powertrain
So, I tried a couple things:
1) A while back I thought my MAF might have been bad (it wasn't - it was the thing that isn't a PCV valve, but everybody calls a PCV valve), so I swapped it for another one. I started getting rich codes immediatly, so I swapped it back and things were better. I put that other MAF back on last week, to get a second opinion, and it was still on today - I swapped back my OEM MAF. Didn't make any difference.
2) I checked the oil. I knew it was going to be contaminated with fuel from all the rich no-start cranking. Well, it is reading about a quart HIGH and reeks of gasoline. So, I need to change the oil posthaste.
I also shot video of all of it. I'll upload it to Youtube and link here.
But, hey - it's running. Badly, but at least - I think - this allows more troubleshooting. I don't know what the deal is with the fuel pressure gauge. I'll try it out on another car and see what it reads and compare to the car's OBD reading from the fuel regulator.
#45
After about 5 seconds it stumbled to life and started putting out MASSIVE amounts of smoke.
I checked the oil. I knew it was going to be contaminated with fuel from all the rich no-start cranking. Well, it is reading about a quart HIGH and reeks of gasoline. So, I need to change the oil posthaste.
I checked the oil. I knew it was going to be contaminated with fuel from all the rich no-start cranking. Well, it is reading about a quart HIGH and reeks of gasoline. So, I need to change the oil posthaste.
How much have you driven the car? Definitely replace that fuel-thinned oil and then try again. If the car is halfway driveable, you may need to put a few miles on it to blow out the cobwebs.
Fresh oil will help restore normal compression, which may currently be low due to fuel wash. Might even be worth your while to squirt a spoonful of oil into each cylinder through the spark plug holes. Crank it over briefly with the plugs removed to blow out any excess and prevent hydraulic lock.
I wouldn't worry about the misfire codes at the moment. That could be as simple as low compression reducing power output. [Soapbox mode on] Remember, a misfire code doesn't necessarily mean an ignition problem. The code can be set by any problem that reduces power output from a particular cylinder(s), such as low compression, a bad injector, etc. [Soapbox mode off/]
#46
Progress!
How much have you driven the car? Definitely replace that fuel-thinned oil and then try again. If the car is halfway driveable, you may need to put a few miles on it to blow out the cobwebs.
Fresh oil will help restore normal compression, which may currently be low due to fuel wash. Might even be worth your while to squirt a spoonful of oil into each cylinder through the spark plug holes. Crank it over briefly with the plugs removed to blow out any excess and prevent hydraulic lock.
I wouldn't worry about the misfire codes at the moment. That could be as simple as low compression reducing power output. [Soapbox mode on] Remember, a misfire code doesn't necessarily mean an ignition problem. The code can be set by any problem that reduces power output from a particular cylinder(s), such as low compression, a bad injector, etc. [Soapbox mode off/]
How much have you driven the car? Definitely replace that fuel-thinned oil and then try again. If the car is halfway driveable, you may need to put a few miles on it to blow out the cobwebs.
Fresh oil will help restore normal compression, which may currently be low due to fuel wash. Might even be worth your while to squirt a spoonful of oil into each cylinder through the spark plug holes. Crank it over briefly with the plugs removed to blow out any excess and prevent hydraulic lock.
I wouldn't worry about the misfire codes at the moment. That could be as simple as low compression reducing power output. [Soapbox mode on] Remember, a misfire code doesn't necessarily mean an ignition problem. The code can be set by any problem that reduces power output from a particular cylinder(s), such as low compression, a bad injector, etc. [Soapbox mode off/]
Here are the vids I shot today after it got started:
#47
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Perth Ontario Canada
Posts: 11,058
Received 2,263 Likes
on
1,845 Posts
Disagree. Cranking the engine repeatedly and dumping oil into the cylinders is most likely what caused the no-start in the first place.
#48
Ok, update time
Changed the oil. No more smoke. I drove it around a bit. Drove it home from where it stranded me, even. Something definitely didn't feel right, but things got gradually better as the ECM learned new trims. I have the following pending faults:
P0172 - System too Rich (Bank 1)
P0175 - System too Rich (Bank 2)
P0300 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0301
P0302
P0307
P0308 - Cylinders 1,2,7,8 Misfire Detected
P0445 - Evaporative Emission Control System Purge Control Valve Circuit Shorted
P1000 - Powertrain
P1316 - Powertrain
After getting home, I let it idle and watched the fuel trims sort themselves out. LTFT is now -3% or so on both banks, STFT is +2% or less on both banks at idle. At 1500 rpm, they are similar, +-3%.
I clearly have a problem with the EVAP system (I have for years), and it's come to a head. I have a smoke machine coming to help me deal with that as well.
Does anybody have a suggestion about how to tackle the P0445?
Thanks, everyone, for your help and guidance!
Ken
Changed the oil. No more smoke. I drove it around a bit. Drove it home from where it stranded me, even. Something definitely didn't feel right, but things got gradually better as the ECM learned new trims. I have the following pending faults:
P0172 - System too Rich (Bank 1)
P0175 - System too Rich (Bank 2)
P0300 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0301
P0302
P0307
P0308 - Cylinders 1,2,7,8 Misfire Detected
P0445 - Evaporative Emission Control System Purge Control Valve Circuit Shorted
P1000 - Powertrain
P1316 - Powertrain
After getting home, I let it idle and watched the fuel trims sort themselves out. LTFT is now -3% or so on both banks, STFT is +2% or less on both banks at idle. At 1500 rpm, they are similar, +-3%.
I clearly have a problem with the EVAP system (I have for years), and it's come to a head. I have a smoke machine coming to help me deal with that as well.
Does anybody have a suggestion about how to tackle the P0445?
Thanks, everyone, for your help and guidance!
Ken
#49
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Perth Ontario Canada
Posts: 11,058
Received 2,263 Likes
on
1,845 Posts
#51
Ok, update time
I drove it around a bit. Drove it home from where it stranded me, even. Something definitely didn't feel right, but things got gradually better as the ECM learned new trims.
After getting home, I let it idle and watched the fuel trims sort themselves out. LTFT is now -3% or so on both banks, STFT is +2% or less on both banks at idle. At 1500 rpm, they are similar, +-3%
I drove it around a bit. Drove it home from where it stranded me, even. Something definitely didn't feel right, but things got gradually better as the ECM learned new trims.
After getting home, I let it idle and watched the fuel trims sort themselves out. LTFT is now -3% or so on both banks, STFT is +2% or less on both banks at idle. At 1500 rpm, they are similar, +-3%
I would hope the behavior will settle down the more you drive it. Remember, you've made a big change to the fuel delivery schedule by getting the rail pressure back in spec. The ECM needs some time to relearn.
Back to that suspect mechanical gauge: I'd suggest just springing for a new one to confirm the rail pressure is now good. It certainly seems better, but there's still a possibility the new sensor is not perfect, or there may also be a wiring fault in the sensor circuit skewing the results. For something as important as this parameter, a good mechanical gauge should bring you peace of mind. Don't trust the scanner reading exclusively. You don't want the ECM issuing improper outputs based on a suspect input.
So do you think the low fuel pressure was the root cause of the no-start, and then possibly aggravated by fuel wash?
#52
I would hope the behavior will settle down the more you drive it. Remember, you've made a big change to the fuel delivery schedule by getting the rail pressure back in spec. The ECM needs some time to relearn.
Back to that suspect mechanical gauge: I'd suggest just springing for a new one to confirm the rail pressure is now good. It certainly seems better, but there's still a possibility the new sensor is not perfect, or there may also be a wiring fault in the sensor circuit skewing the results. For something as important as this parameter, a good mechanical gauge should bring you peace of mind. Don't trust the scanner reading exclusively. You don't want the ECM issuing improper outputs based on a suspect input.
So do you think the low fuel pressure was the root cause of the no-start, and then possibly aggravated by fuel wash?
Back to that suspect mechanical gauge: I'd suggest just springing for a new one to confirm the rail pressure is now good. It certainly seems better, but there's still a possibility the new sensor is not perfect, or there may also be a wiring fault in the sensor circuit skewing the results. For something as important as this parameter, a good mechanical gauge should bring you peace of mind. Don't trust the scanner reading exclusively. You don't want the ECM issuing improper outputs based on a suspect input.
So do you think the low fuel pressure was the root cause of the no-start, and then possibly aggravated by fuel wash?
I'm taking your advice and buying a new gauge (this one is a loaner from a friend, anyway).
Everything seems to be settling down. Now, on to fixing the PITA EVAP system
Thanks!