Okay so I am at work browsing the web and I came across Eurotek Designs website again... I've been on here before, but I guess I never paid much attention to the details.. Here are some pictures I borrowed that really get me thinking... A larger intercooler? A chip that allows the R to hit 169mph? 500hp and 515ft/lbs of torque?

I do not know how I did not notice these things last time I was on here, but the intercooler and ECU really make me want to give them a call....







I would also love to know where they found 500 horses in this motor? I guess it must be more or less stock (No Kenne Bell or anything crazy) just pulleys, a tune, maybe porting.... Anyone have any insight?

 

Go for it whiteSTR.

What year is that STR is the bottom picture, the "ram air" intake seems to be smaller than the one on my 2004. Nice red engine cover. I have read that Mina Gallery offers a small pulley that adds about 1-2 lbs of boost, this should be good for a more HP & TQthoughout the RPM range.

 

http://www.eisenhaus.com/ardenjaguar...mp;height=2675

 

GO GET THE DUPLICOLOR AND OTHER PLASTIC SPECIFIC PAINTS AND DO YOUR OWN FOR $6 ON THE ENGINE COVER. ADD IN ECU TUNING AND REDUCING AIR INTAKE TEMPS WITH EXHUAST, KN DROP IN, LARGER INTERCOOLER AND RUNNING ALL WITH A SEPERATE COOLING SYSTEM INDEPENDANT OF THE 230deG ENGINE COOLANT(10DEG REDUCTION IN AIR INLET TEMP IS APRROX A 1% INCREASE IN HP AND TORQUE) AND i CAN SEE HOW THEY MAY HAVE EASILY ADDED 100HP
EDIT.NICE LINK 03, BUT I THINK THATS PUSHING MORE THAN SOME WANT WITH A REDO ON THE ENGINE INTERNALS, NOW IF I HAD A BAD STYPER ENGINE, I WOULD GO THAT ROUTE FROM THE START. WHITE I THINK YOU NEED TO START THE FORUM OFF RIGHT DOWN THAT ROAD, AND GO GET I G TECH ON BOARD G METER, I REALLY LIKE WHAT I CAN DO WITH MINE AND THINK YOU WOULD TOO FOR THE $200 0-60, 60', 1/4 MILE, CORNERING, BRAKING ETC

 

I doubt you can get to 500 bhp with a Eaton on a 4.2 car. First of all a larger intercooler will not give more hp, it will only help to keep hp for longer before the system heats up and you loose dramatically. Next you would have to spin the supercharger much faster for more air, which will generate much more heat than stock, and it will be very inefficient, meaning it will cost more and more hp to turn the supercharger adding only less hp. The gains one could get with a stock engine and only do a ECU tune, cannot just be added on top of other modifications, as when the pressure goes up with the (h)Eaton, so does the temperature, so a specific tune is needed (maybe even a de tune). You could run the car much leaner (some tuners go pretty far here) for gaining some hp, and maybe as long as you only use it for short bursts you could get away with it, but it will be dangerous with continues usage (ie. German Autobahn). So imho one need to do much more to get to 500 bhp levels using the Eaton, maybe nitrous, I don't know.

Andre.

 

SORRY ANDRE BUT INCREASING AN INTERCOOLER SIZE IF IT LOWER INTAKE AIR TEMP DOES GIVE YOU MORE HP JUST LIKE ON COLD MORNINGS AND YOU CAR FEELS LIKE SOMEONE SNUCK IN AND ADDED ANOTHER CYCLINDER. LIKE I SAID BEFORE THERE ARE SOME GENERALLY ACCEPTED RULES REMOVE A 100# WEIGHT GAIN A.10 IN THE QTR MILE, REDUCE AIR INTAKE TEMPS 1O DEG FOR APRROX 1%HP, YOUR AIR INTAKE TEMP SENSOR IN THE MASS AIR FLOW TELLS THE ECU WHAT THE INLET TEMP AMBIENT OF AIR IS AND USES THE FUELING TIMING MAPS TO ADD MORE FUEL, CAUSE IN 6TH GRADE SCIENCE CLASS THEY TAUGHT US THAT COLD AIR IS DENSE AIR, AND THE MORE AIR THE MORE FUEL NEEDED. AND THE EATON UNITS ARE NOT PUSHED TO THEIR MAX POINT FOR TERMAL EFFICIENCY. WHEN I USED TO DO HIPO WORK ON SUPER CHARGED AND TURBO CARS, YOU CAN USUALLY GET 3-5 PSI FROM A STOCK BLOWER SETUP AND UP TO 15PSI ON STOCK TURBOS BEFORE YOU HIT THE POINT OF NO RETURN WERE MORE BOOST GOT NO MORE POWER AND JSUT RISK DETONATION AND BLOWN PARTS. AND YOUDE BE SURPRISED AT HOW MUCH STOCK ECUS ARE ABLE TO ADAPT TO BOLT ON AND CHANGES. BUT HERES THE KICKER, IF THE BASE ECUS MAPS SUCK AND RUN TOO RICH(SAFE, BUT NOT GOOD FOR POWER) THEN YOU WILL NOT GET THE MAXIMUM POWER AVAIL FROM CHANGES AS WHEN THOSE CHANGES ARE MADE AND THE ECU IS EMAPPED FOR BETTER TIMING TABLES AND FUELING. REMEMBER STOCK MAPS ARE SAFE AND DESIGNED FOR THE GENRAL PUBLICS TYPE USEAGE, AND FROM ALL PARTS OF THE COUNTRY(WORLD) AND GAS MIXTURES

 

Hi Brutal,

The question is will a bigger intercooler give you more HP then stock in real conditions (i.e. driving on the street). Believe me the Jaguar 400 BHP will probably have been measured under ideal (ice cold?) conditions.

Of course cooler air will aid in extra power, so running a separate cooling circuit maybe even lines to the trunk with some ice water will help. But just normal outside air temps, and just a bigger intercooler on a stock car?

Not even tuners who sell intercoolers claim that they will provide more HP. Anyone who have done some dynos after another (and have measured coolant temp etc) can confirm that you will lose power the hotter the intercooling circuit becomes, but not gain more than 400 bhp just by adding a bigger intercooler.

So that is the base line if you see what I mean.

No need to come with theoretical statements (not meant negative), I have just done too many dyno tests to know what effect certain changes have on our cars, so let’s just say my words are my opinion, and you have given yours. ;-).

The base ECU map is indeed conservative, so there you can snoop some power (about 25 could be possible), but that would be on a stock car. As soon as you alter the pressure/heat, you risk getting into the pre-ignition area, so a special tune would be needed for your tuning package to try to get the most out of it, and that could mean again to enrichen the fuel mixture or even retard the ignition.

All doable, no rocket science, but I have not seen a tuner in the world that could get 500 bhp with a 4.0 or a 4.2 engine with the eaton (so about above the 400 rwhp). I do not want to discourage people, go ahead and try that is already half the fun, but I just want to provide some real experiences I have had that 500 bhp isn’t reachable easily with the suggestions given here, much more would be needed if at all (ok NOS will help).

Very important, make a good baseline dyno, make sure you already get the right HP numbers from stock before you even start tuning. Next ensure for the after dynos to keep the conditions the same, to name just a simple one: same tire pressure.

Andre.

 

Hey guys,

A larger intercooler by itself doesn't really add much in the way of HP, but it does let you increase the amount of boost without detonation, which is win win. cooler outlet temps of the blower are always a good thing, while it is still near the same amount of air, its not as hot (so you would see a decrease in your boost reading, but not a loss in power). a lower outlet temp, or cooler intake manifold plenum air would very slightly increase the efficiency of the blower as well, so a better intercooler WILL result in increased power (probably 2hp) but the ability to run more boost is where you will see the gain.

The real question regarding adding more boost is how fast is it spinning now? what is the size of the lower crank, and upper s/c pulley?

The M112 is very cabable of supporting a 500hp (crank) 4.2 dohc engine.

 

Couldn't agree more ;-)

Just the last part. As of yet I have not seen a tuner to achieve that. You would need a h..l of a lot of modifications imho to come close (and may need some tricks too, there are some to push up hp for a short run).

You seem pretty convinced, could you list the modifications needed to achieve this?

Andre.

 

well im getting ready to do pulleys, ported blower, intake, tune, and possibly ported heads (already have exhaust), so ill see where that gets me, im just hoping for over 400 at the wheels, should be a pretty fun ride that will suprise the hell out of some people

used to drive a Trans Am, so a lot of the people i cruise with are in modified muscle cars so i need a little something more since im losing my speed fix i got from my TA fromriding with them everynow and thenlol

 

I believe, that 119 HP per liter shouldnt be the problem, re-mapping ECU to less conservative, adding smaller pulley (more positive charge) and bigger IC. Supercharger has bad heating issue at higher pressures - needs very good inter-cooler or/and water injection to avoid detonation. But I really believe, that +25% power should be doable wiht no internal mods.

 

Headers would be the key on these cars. Have you seen the exhaust manifolds? they look like log manifolds. Headers would not only increase output (rough guess 20-30 depending on mods and the design) but they would let the exhaust out easier so that you could also increase boost without detonation.

There isn't alot to be had with porting these blowers. They are already GenV architecture so they have the better coating on the rotors and a pretty nice design to begin with. the ford cobra uses a m112 as well, but there casing is much different in the fact that they can port there outlet to a different design to allow for very nice gains, there simply is not room on the outlet of these m112's. opening it up a little can help some, but i wouldn't expect a whole lot. You could however plug the two slits to the side of the outlet which would slightly increase the efficiency of the blower and make it louder (more whine). they are only there to make it quieter, which is why you never see it on any aftermarket Eaton blower.

 

I agree with the porting, however imho just speeding up the eaton/porting/large intercooler/manifold/ecu tune/intake is still not enough for more than 400rwhp. Maybe some race cats could help, but that will also make the car louder. Why do you think it is possible?

When speeding up the (H)eaton above stock rpm, it will become more and more in-efficient, and the charge air is getting much hotter. This is why cooling is more than essential when upping up the speed (trick, spray methanol, not my thing though). The major disadvantage here of the extra heat, is that pressure goes up, and that in combination with the hotter air you gain the risk of pre-ignition with our relatively high CR. The ECU will retard the ignition for you when this happens, but that also means loss of power, and this was part of the inefficiency for the eaton to run at higher speeds on our engines.

Anyway this could be an interesting thread developing for all who want to do some serious modding, please do not forget to make a good base line dyno, looking forward to the results.

Here is some more food for thought, though it is a very different setup and engine:
http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...ion/index.html

This part (amongst many others) is an interesting one:
“It is important to point out that the peak power only increased by 11 hp when we upped the peak boost pressure from 11.7 to 14.2 psi, a sure indication that the M112 had very little flow left in reserve.�[/i][/i]


Andre.

 

I personally wouldn't spray meth unless it were somehow done after the supercharger. its very harmful to the coating on the s/c rotors. ive seen rotors stripped almost bare from spraying methanol. If you were to compare a brand new m112 to one with no coating on the rotors, it really is only about a 1.5-2psi difference, while not huge it is a power drop.

with the blower speed, improvements need to be made in flow or temp to get an advantage for good gains. im not sure what the stock pulley/crank size is to figure out its rpm. Ive done alot of modding with other eaton blower cars and intercooling definatly helps to overcome efficiency. one of the problems with the stype R setups is getting the exhaust out. the manifolds suck. You can jam it in, but if its not going to go out your not going to gain much. without good exhaust mods (headers are the most important on this setup) the boost is going to stack and push past the rotors resulting in very small gains with smaller pulleys, and overcourse more chance of detonation.

 

I have not heard of people spraying ethanol before the supercharger before (on our cars), probably it could also risk the bearingsI guess. There are kits available that spray just after the supercharger, or I have heard people spraying it on the radiator to cool down the intercooler water.

 

The kits ive seen, obviously for other cars, spray Methanol/alky before the blower. Funny you say ethanol, if you were to convert the car to run on E85 detonation would be a thing of the past. Depends on the state you live in, but here in mn the e85 gas stations are everywhere and around $1.30 a gallon. you do get worse mileage, which about perfectly offsets the decreased price, but its 105 octane and has a cool down effect because of the increased amount of fuel.

the fuel system would have to supply approx 30% more fuel though. easiest way to do this would be put bigger injectors in, and use a MAF translator to increase/decrease fuel to dial it in (since tuning isn't an option for users). would also need to know the size of the fuel pump, to see it it can handle the increased load.

I think converting to run e85 is a little to much for an average jag driver though as it requires special attention.

 

Forgot the M ;-)

However high boost applications could indeed benifit from Ethanol. But changing the fuel system would be way to complex and expensive I think, and not worth the effort.

But speaking about other fuels, there is another way, and that is LPG (I think you would call it Natural Gas, lngor something). As the octane is very high and you can make use of the cold gas when it expands,you could get higher hp output then with gasoline.

 

sorry to bring this back up but paramount performance has gotten 506bhp out of the 4.2 with a eaton with basically all the bolt-ons. It didn't say if the supercharger was ported or not. The also got like 482bhp with a pulley, exhaust, intake, and tune. I think that could have also made 500 with the supercharger ported and highflow cats. The test's were done on 07+xkr's but the engine is the same.

 

amgeater,

Paramount has tried for many years to reach 500 bhp, and I have seen many unreliable dynos in the past of them (like 30% drive train losses, just to name one). They may have reached it, but how did they calculate the 500 bhp is the question imho, and under what conditions was the dyno done, and what where the modifications done on that car?

But that aside, the 4.2 engine from a 2007 XKR is not the same; the engine delivers 420 bhp, instead of 400 bhp as a base. This can be contributed to a better intake system (probably also exhaust), inlet VVT, but the biggest change is the new TVS Eaton supercharger.

So not really comparable!

I know of one company that provides a larger under drive pulley, ECU tune and exhaust that would get about 475 bhp on the same new 2007 XKR.

Please go ahead and tune your car, but do not forget to make a good baseline dyno, and share your results.

Happy tuning,
Andre.

 

Well here's two....on Eaton's

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xDYaiI...eature=channel

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BWNzx5...eature=channel

http://www.paramount-performance.com...log/index.html

My XJR has 400+ at the rears on the Eaton, via Paramount's ECU+pullies induction big bore cats and exhaust - in England these cars have been developed, with people who know what they're doing, and with factory assistance. Bolt your twin screw on, if you must, but dare I say it, there is life in the old dog....the XJR will do 170mph by the way, happily.
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