Hello all, I'm new here and I've been thinking about it for a while, as probably many 2000-2001 owners have noticed, the front ball joints are upside down (control arm under the ball joint, stud pointing down), so the weight of the car pulls on the ball joint instead of pushing on the bottom of the ball, which results in frequent and repeated ball joint failure. This really is dumb engineering, and in 2002 or 2003 the front suspension was revised and the ball joints were put back the correct way (control arm over the ball joint, stud pointing up). My car is a beat up and rusted 2000 4.0 sport, and most people got rid of them already but I kind of like this pile. I'm on my third set of ball joints, and I could have changed way more often; they're always loose. So I wondered if anybody here has already tried to install 2002+ knuckles on a 2000-01 car? I know the lower arms don't interchange, as the early version was one-piece and then they were made two pieces and the subframes are very different, but maybe one can countersink the one-piece lower arm to the bottom of the hole (which seems somewhat confusing as some ball joints are tapered and some are fully threaded with conical seats) , and then remains the question of the ride height and alignment... This is the kind of tinkering you do with both cars side by side and I only have one... Anybody did it?

 

Welcome to the forum.

It's not just the vertical link that's different, but the entire layout of the front suspension is different.

Here is the front suspension control arm layout for the facelift X202 onwards:

https://www.sngbarratt.com/English/#...assembly/31253

The body mounting points for the lower control arms may also be different, which ultimately affects the wheel alignment.

 

Hello NBcat, as I wrote in my first post, I'm aware that there are differences in suspension layout; it's pretty obvious that two pieces lower arm doesn't interchange with the single piece one and I didn't ask for part number compatibility. My question is: has anybody ever reamed the single piece early lower arm to use with the updated knuckle with the tapered ball joint, or has anybody just did the same but used the straight fully threaded ball joint? I have every reason to think the suspension layout has changed over the years but the geometry remained the same. Please I want to talk about experiences, not catalogue numbers.

 

I believe no-one has.

 

you’re still driving around in the ford s-type….you kind of answered your question

but seriously just go get the vanquish/lincoln ls control arms with the 16mm hole slap the moogs in there and have a nice day

 

Since you want to discuss experiences, then why not be the first to measure all the vehicle mounting points for the suspension swap to see if it's even possible? As JagV8 pointed out, no one has attempted such a modification that's been posted to this forum.

 

I was in a rush to keep the jalopy safe so I thought like Xalty and got my hands on a set of clearance priced moog ball joints and slapped them on as is for now. I'm getting good at it, I can even unpress ball joints whitout breaking them to reuse elsewhere if needs be. By the way, while removing my months old ball joints (Which had 1/8" of axial play and were squeeking badly), I noticed the ball were already all rusty, which means they were not watertight at all, even with the boot down, meaning water entered through the pressing on top...???

 

You said the ball joints were wearing out. Mine aren't wearing out at all. I replaced the entire suspension except the springs/shocks and they have been fine ever since. that was about 80K miles ago. Could the ball joints be pressed in wrong or be sub standard?

 

@ Davidladewig,

To check the play you need to pry between the wheel inner lip and the arm, then between the arm and the knuckle. the most play you'll see is axial (up-down), but the suspension spring prevents you from checking it by hand. When you get 1/8" of axial play, while driving the car on roads with ruts, axial play turns into radial play (because it's a ball), and the front wheel toes in and out when rocking in the ruts and you can really feel the car is all over the place. You put new ball joints in and the steering precision gets back to normal, even on crappy communist Quebec roads yeah I know... My old ball joints were not top quality, but I've used the same brand/construction elsewhere and it's the first time I do the same ball joint more than once, especially within a year, in a car that isn't that heavy. The new ones I just put are Moog all metal construction; I'll see if they last more... or less...

 

Yes I think we are seeing the continuing decline in aftermarket parts quality?

I have been a MOOG fan for years but they are simply not the same company as they once were. You can't go by brands names anymore as it's very likely all the brands you can find are all made in the same Chinese factory. Just packaged in different boxes.
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@ clubairth1,

Maybe I wasn't too clear about the brands; the only all metal Moogs I tried are the ones that are on the car now, the three previous sets (warrantied on RA) were Mevotech I think with teflon cushions, which isn't bad in itself, except for when the weight of the car pulls on the stud and rips the teflon insert from the pressed steel housing, instead of resting on the ball and keeping the insert to the bottom of the bore. I'm pretty sure those Jags came from the factory with teflon lined ball joints, but maybe with a little better quality steel ball, with better chrome, better grease, better quality rubber boot and a little better everything...

 

Hi gravzzy,
I can't see in which country you are, but regardless: Step one would be to check the legal situation in you country, to check, if you are allowed at all to throw the complete suspension from one car onto another. I can tell you that I am fairly sure that if you would attempt to do that in Australia, you would have to pay for an engineer's certificate, i.e. you have to pay for an engineer, which looks are your finished new design an decides, if that is roadworthy. That would be very expensive. Btw.: In Germany that would be called "TUEV Einzelabnahme", also, extremely expensive. You have no way of knowing either, if they would even accept it. There is a real cool German Comic called "Werner", and he drives his motorbike to the TUEV Einzelabnahme, or Sonderabnahme, to get his "Wuerstchenbliker" approved: That is a device, which throws out sausages at the end of the handlebars, depending on which indicator (blinker) you activate - well, spoiler alert: he did not get approval...
I got no idea, if there are still "wild west countries", where anything goes. As an example: Nearly 40 years ago I saw in France a Citroen 2CV (German nickname: The duck/Ente) with a rear axle from a lorry/truck. If you live in a country, where something like that is still possible today, you may try to do what you plan...

 

Just got back from Mexico and The Bahamas. In both places, I Couldn’t believe how many cars I saw with no taillights. Not talking about broken bulbs or busted lenses. I mean the entire light assemblies were missing, with bares wires sticking out from the sheet metal.

 

As I've said in an earlier post, I'm in Quebec, Canada. Quebec is the only province that still has no mandatory mechanical inspection for light road cars, as long as they're plated one day a year, every year. I own a 1948 car that is a bare shell, but can be thrown back on the road with whatever components I find to make it work. As long as it looks like a complete car with reasonable stance an silent exhaust, a windshield and lights, you'll be left alone. I think swapping suspension parts is common in several states in USA, especially for road/drift cars when they want more steering angle, and by the way, the S-Type front suspension is a very good donor for geometry, like are BMWs and Mercedes. Now, even in Australia, you must ask yourself the question if it is legal to put Jaguar S-Type parts... on a Jaguar S-Type??? If you think the answer is no, ask yourself how OEM parts for the same car would be identified as not suited for this very car? Anyways, I was just about to go and get the parts I need to the self service yard and when I got there they said they don't have an S-Type (but they had it on their website the very same day). I think they are pressing a bunch of cars for spring cleanup and get rid of snowpiles quicker. So I'll have to wait for the next one to pop out before continuing my so crazy experiments.

 

Hi gravzzy, Interesting. But don't be confused when watching the Australian made MAD MAX movies:
You will not see cars like that on the road in Australia. But sounds like they could be driven in Quebec.

Btw.: When I wrote I can't see, where you live, I meant that your header in each post does not contain the info... - that is where
I looked.

I totally understand, that you want to put S-Type parts onto a S-Type - but those two (X200/X204) have been made to different specifications, hence it becomes a different car in the eyes of the Australian red-tape-makers.
The following will proof my point: I have a Mazda E2000 Van (same as Ford Econovan). I have the panel van version, i.e. 3 seats in the front row and heaps of loading space in the back. All the fixtures (= threads) for seats and seat belts are in the back. Thus, for the version, where there are 5 more seats in the back, they just put the seats and seat belts in there in the factory.
Thus, I am sure, you will think now that there would be no problem, if I get myself original seat belts and seats from the wreckers to put them in there. But you would be wrong. I would have needed to pay for an engineer's certificate - which I think was about AU$1000 about 20 years ago.
And that although "seats" are not even a "point of special interest" at the yearly rego (technical) check, but "suspension" is.