2003, 3.0, 90k, codes and freeze frame
#1
2003, 3.0, 90k, codes and freeze frame
Ok guys attached is the freeze frame data for codes P0171 and P0174. So far the vehicle has had plugs, all intake gaskets, IMTs, PCV and valve cover vacuum lines replaced, fuel filter, air filter changed, MAF cleaned. COILS have NOT been replaced yet.
I am 99% sure there is no longer a vacuum leak that would be substantial to throw the car into RP. Joel clears the codes, starts car and is immediately thrown into RP. After looking at the following data, does anyone see anything?
I am 99% sure there is no longer a vacuum leak that would be substantial to throw the car into RP. Joel clears the codes, starts car and is immediately thrown into RP. After looking at the following data, does anyone see anything?
The following users liked this post:
JimC64 (02-18-2011)
#2
The following users liked this post:
JimC64 (02-18-2011)
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Guys,
Rick I should have bought the scan tool I told you to get. My ebay elm327 wont connect to the software you sent me, so I had to use Scanmaster ELM instead.
I agree his fuel trims are WAY out of line.
Just for reference here's two baseline scans of my healthy 2003 3.0
Both done in park:
At idle:
At 2500 rpm:
Lets get Joel to do the same scans and compare.
Take care,
George
Rick I should have bought the scan tool I told you to get. My ebay elm327 wont connect to the software you sent me, so I had to use Scanmaster ELM instead.
I agree his fuel trims are WAY out of line.
Just for reference here's two baseline scans of my healthy 2003 3.0
Both done in park:
At idle:
At 2500 rpm:
Lets get Joel to do the same scans and compare.
Take care,
George
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Ok guys attached is the freeze frame data for codes P0171 and P0174. So far the vehicle has had plugs, all intake gaskets, IMTs, PCV and valve cover vacuum lines replaced, fuel filter, air filter changed, MAF cleaned. COILS have NOT been replaced yet.
I am 99% sure there is no longer a vacuum leak that would be substantial to throw the car into RP. Joel clears the codes, starts car and is immediately thrown into RP. After looking at the following data, does anyone see anything?
I am 99% sure there is no longer a vacuum leak that would be substantial to throw the car into RP. Joel clears the codes, starts car and is immediately thrown into RP. After looking at the following data, does anyone see anything?
http://www.gusglikas.com/AutoRepair2...VacuumLeak.htm
http://www.gusglikas.com/images/Auto...otos/P0171.pdf
Last edited by Gus; 02-16-2011 at 10:50 PM.
#13
Can I assume that you replaced the lower breather elbow hose?
http://www.gusglikas.com/AutoRepair2...VacuumLeak.htm
http://www.gusglikas.com/AutoRepair2...VacuumLeak.htm
Take care,
Goerge
#14
Comparison OBD readings - great!
So, the MAFs are quite similar. Good. Unlikely to be the MAF.
But the trims are much richer AND the idle RPM is higher. An air leak would do that.
Remember it's a feedback system (when running CL closed loop), so this is how it will go:
Imagine the PCM would like to run at about 780rpm at idle. MAF says how much air is entering. Fuel added to match. O2 sensors say there's still lots of O2. PCM adds extra fuel until O2s show air/fuel is as it should be. Great, but with more air+fuel it's like having throttle slightly pressed and RPM is bigger than the 780 desired.
If the extra fuel trim needed is past a threshold (about 20%, commonly), codes are thrown to show that something's wrong.
When fixed, you can speed up the relearn of trims if you clear the KAM (disconnect battery if no OBD tool with that feature).
So, the MAFs are quite similar. Good. Unlikely to be the MAF.
But the trims are much richer AND the idle RPM is higher. An air leak would do that.
Remember it's a feedback system (when running CL closed loop), so this is how it will go:
Imagine the PCM would like to run at about 780rpm at idle. MAF says how much air is entering. Fuel added to match. O2 sensors say there's still lots of O2. PCM adds extra fuel until O2s show air/fuel is as it should be. Great, but with more air+fuel it's like having throttle slightly pressed and RPM is bigger than the 780 desired.
If the extra fuel trim needed is past a threshold (about 20%, commonly), codes are thrown to show that something's wrong.
When fixed, you can speed up the relearn of trims if you clear the KAM (disconnect battery if no OBD tool with that feature).
#15
So I was told from George first to do the data scan, I was told to save information at 1000 RPM, 2000 RPM, 3000 RPM, and 4000 RPM. I can't get it to 4000 RPM and if I do, the OBDwiz program can't gather the information quick enough. Then I was told to take 2 more at 600 RPM and 2500 RPM. What is the main data I need to save other than Freeze Frame?
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Joel what we need is the following in park. First an idle scan. Car running in park, feet off the pedals.
Second, car in park, accelerator held to 2500 rpm.
We can't DIRECTLY compare the scans until we have the same conditions, it appears Joels Posted Freeze Frame data is with the car in motion at 8mph or so.
Take care,
George
#19
drum roll..................
The solution is dot-dod-da-da!!!!!!
MAF Sensor!!!! (Autozone $86.00)
Joel replaced the MAF minutes ago and ALL is back to normal!!! No codes or RP.
Thanks to all who contributed!!!! One less vehicle going to the dealer.
AND a special thanks to srjag.....
The solution is dot-dod-da-da!!!!!!
MAF Sensor!!!! (Autozone $86.00)
Joel replaced the MAF minutes ago and ALL is back to normal!!! No codes or RP.
Thanks to all who contributed!!!! One less vehicle going to the dealer.
AND a special thanks to srjag.....
Last edited by joycesjag; 02-17-2011 at 12:38 PM.
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The following users liked this post:
JimC64 (02-18-2011)