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First time poster having a start up issue. When I turn over the ignition just get a one click noise coming from the starter or starter solenoid area and that is it. The battery is new so should be getting enough juice to engage. If the starter is bad is this a tough job to tackle. I have seen some videos out there for Xtype and looks like you need to raise the block to get the starter out. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
First time poster having a start up issue. When I turn over the ignition just get a one click noise coming from the starter or starter solenoid area and that is it. The battery is new so should be getting enough juice to engage. If the starter is bad is this a tough job to tackle. I have seen some videos out there for Xtype and looks like you need to raise the block to get the starter out. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Tigerkize-
It is customary to introduce yourself in the welcome forum and add some more specific detail about your vehicle to your signature.
There are so many possibilities could come into play here..engine size is the first question I would ask you. 3.0..4.2..STR?
The battery is new so should be getting enough juice to engage.
Hi, and welcome to the forum. Lots of smart, helpful people here. I'm here, too.
Now, normally a new guy just says hello, versus launching straight into a really funny joke. But if want to insist your battery is good solely because it's new, well, I'll just have to slap my knee and laugh along.
The preceding was industrial strength satire to make a point. Your battery may be fine healthwise, but not fully charged. Most new batteries are not fully charged at time of sale. Or you may have an undiagnosed electrical drain in the car, running down the battery. So before doing anything else, please hook up a battery charger, preferably automatic, with at least a ten amp output. A trickle charger won't cut it, so don't waste your time with that.
Once you're sure the battery is fully charged, try starting again and let us know what happens.
Also, a little recent history will help with the diagnosis. Has the car been driven regularly and the no-crank is a new condition? Was the battery replaced in an attempt to fix that? Or was the battery replaced for other reasons (please specify) and then the starter wouldn't engage? Sharing these details will help a lot.
It is customary to introduce yourself in the welcome forum and add some more specific detail about your vehicle to your signature.
There are so many possibilities could come into play here..engine size is the first question I would ask you. 3.0..4.2..STR?
Catfan01 did not know the protocol, my apologies. Car is 3.0, normal driving conditions about 90,000 miles. I used to have a 2001 Vanden Plas that I tore apart and put back together and sold, learning very early in the process that this was one quirky car.
Anyway, I believe it is the starter or solenoid, just from experience and want to know if the starter is possible to change without raising the block enough like the XType videos I have been viewing. Not something I want to get into if that is the case, no time. I will take the battery down to the local auto store and see where it is on cranking amps and if the cells are ok. Any help is appreciated.
Anyway, I believe it is the starter or solenoid, just from experience and want to know if the starter is possible to change without raising the block enough like the XType videos I have been viewing.
Sorry, can't help with your question about physically changing the starter. I can't remember what access is like.
Are you interested in some troubleshooting first, before shotgunning an expensive part? I can walk you through some easy steps with a voltmeter that can potentially save you a LOT of time and grief, maybe take all of twenty minutes. The only downside is you'd have to get access to the terminals on the starter for some (but not all) of the troubleshooting. I don't know if you've got a meter, jack, jackstands, etc.
Your call, but just say the word if interested. From your query, it seems you were only interested in what it would take to replace the starter. But in many cases, if you get nothing but a big click when you try to start, that is an electrical problem, not a bad starter.
Sorry, can't help with your question about physically changing the starter. I can't remember what access is like.
Are you interested in some troubleshooting first, before shotgunning an expensive part? I can walk you through some easy steps with a voltmeter that can potentially save you a LOT of time and grief, maybe take all of twenty minutes. The only downside is you'd have to get access to the terminals on the starter for some (but not all) of the troubleshooting. I don't know if you've got a meter, jack, jackstands, etc.
Your call, but just say the word if interested. From your query, it seems you were only interested in what it would take to replace the starter. But in many cases, if you get nothing but a big click when you try to start, that is an electrical problem, not a bad starter.
Yes I would appreciate that. I can't get to it until tomorrow and could run the tests. Let me know what I need to begin and I will get the information back to you that I find.
Sorry, got swamped at work today. I didn't get my usual and accustomed hours of free time... I'll post what I can for now and hopefully wrap up later.
For the electrical checks, you'll need a long test lead jumper to reach from the battery to the engine compartment. A length of ordinary insulated wire with alligator clips at both ends is all you need. The wire won't carry much current, so 14 or even 16 gauge is plenty. This wire is nothing more than an extension of one of the meter test leads.
Before doing anything else, make sure your battery is fully charged. This is VERY important, so please don't overlook this step.
Wiring diagrams are here, near the top of the page. Select 2005 for your car, and then scroll down to figure 02.1:
For some quick preliminary checks, check fuse F27 under the hood. This is the fuse that supplies the power to energize the starter solenoid.
Check the starter megafuse in the trunk. This is a big 'un, 450 amps. I'm not sure exactly where it is, possibly next to the fuse box by the spare tire.
Locate relay R20 under the hood. Place your finger on it and have a helper turn the key to start. This should energize the relay and you should feel it click.
Moving along, place your voltmeter leads directly on the battery posts. Don't clip them onto the terminals, we want to read directly from the posts. I like to drive a small sheet metal screw into each post to create a convenient place to clip the test meter leads. If your battery is fully charged (notice I keep harping on that), you should see at least 12.6 volts.
Have a helper turn the key to start while you watch the voltmeter. The starter puts a YUGE load on the battery and the voltage should drop. It is perfectly normal for the voltage to drop down around 10.5 or so under the load of the starter. If the voltage drops below 10.0 volts, this means either the battery wasn't fully charged, is defective and can't carry the load, or the starter is drawing too much current. More details about the starter current draw in a minute. If the battery voltage barely drops, that usually means the solenoid didn't energize or the starter is not getting power, such as with a bad cable. Ideally, you want to see the voltage drop a normal amount (to around 10.5ish) but not too much (below 10.0).
The next step is to jack up the front of the car and support it on jackstands, unless you've got some other safe method to reach the terminals on the starter and attached solenoid. Although the solenoid can be replaced separately, for the most part I'll be treating it as integral part of the starter. Here's a view of the terminals you will see on the end of the starter:
On the solenoid, on the big terminal furthest from the starter body, you should see 2 big cables. This is terminal ST6 on the wiring diagram, and should always have direct battery power present. If not, suspect the starter megafuse previously mentioned. The smaller terminal on the side of the solenoid should have 1 smaller wire and is terminal ST5 on the wiring diagram. This terminal is only energized when the key is turned to start, and relay R20 closes. When power is present here, the solenoid is energized to move the starter drive gear into position against the flywheel, and simultaneously connect battery power (from battery power present at ST6) to the starter motor itself.
This is where you need that long test lead to reach back to the battery. I'm not going to have you take a conventional voltage reading at the starter, because if only a few strands are making a connection, it's too easy to get a misleading indication that voltage is normal. Instead, I'm going to have you do a voltage drop test, which measures the ability of the conductors to carry the massive flow of electrons required by the starter. I wrote this article at another forum I frequent to explain the concept, but this is only for general understanding because the voltmeter connections won't be the same due to a different type of starter:
Do you have to understand how a voltage drop test works? Absolutely not. All you need to do is take the meter readings and report back. Even if the test seems like a bunch of mumbo-jumbo, please trust me. This type of test is designed specifically for a slow or dead starter. It will find the root cause of the problem with a minimum of wasted effort.
For the first test, connect the voltmeter's red lead directly to the positive battery post. (Remember the sheet metal screw mentioned previously) Connect one end of the long test jumper to terminal ST6 on the starter solenoid, where the two big cables are. Make the connection to the threaded stud, not the cable ends. Connect the other end of the test jumper to the meter's black lead. Ignore any reading you see right now, and have your helper turn the key to start. If all is good, and positive side of the starter circuit is in good condition and capable to carrying all that juice demanded by the starter, your meter should show a reading very close to 0.000 volts. Typically, you should see no higher than 0.500. Don't be too alarmed, as it's not possible to get 0.000 under load, but the lower the better. You may to select a lower range on your meter for accuracy. Any reading higher than 0.500 indicates a restriction somewhere between the two test points. At the link above, I give instructions how to move the meter test points around to find exactly where the restriction is.
If that test was good (under 0.500 volts) with the key to start, the positive side of the starter circuit is good. Move on to the negative side. Remove the end of the test jumper from ST6 and clip it to the housing of the starter motor. Switch meter leads so the meter's red lead is now connected to the long test jumper. Connect the meter's black lead to the battery's negative post. Once again, read directly from the battery post, not the cable terminal. Have your helper turn the key to start. Once again, you should see under 0.500 volts if all is good. Remember, this test is only valid with the key to start, so ignore any reading when not in start.
So to recap, you're running three simple tests. The first test measured battery voltage under the load of the starter, and should stay above 10.0 volts. The next two tests measured the ability of the positive and negative sides of the starter circuit to handle the massive current flow without undue restriction. Remember, you only care about the readings under the load of the starter, so ignore any readings at other times.
If all three tests are good (battery voltage holds above 10.0, other two tests less than 0.500), then you've likely got a bad starter. In that case, I can walk you through how to test the solenoid versus the starter motor, but I generally prefer to consider them as one unit instead of changing just one of the two pieces.
There's one other rare condition, if the engine is mechanically binding, and this causes the starter to work too hard and draw too much current. If you suspect that, use a breaker bar and socket at the front of the crankshaft to make sure the engine is not binding internally.
Uff da! I forgot to include another required step for this wiring arrangement.
Crawl underneath with your voltmeter. Put the red lead on solenoid terminal ST5, the smaller terminal on the side with one small wire. As in a previous step, connect the meter lead to the stud, not to the nut or wire terminal. Put the black lead on the starter housing.
Have your helper turn the key to start. If relay R20 is closing properly (you had already done the click test), you should see battery voltage here and the starter solenoid should energize. If the voltage you record is much lower than the battery, relay R20 is the likely culprit.
There is an additional electrical test we could do on R20, but the quickest method is to just swap that relay with another. As long as your wipers work properly at high and low speed, this means relay R6 is good and it would be a good donor.
2005 3.0L S-Type
Same symptoms as described in OP - Listing the results of troubleshooting steps in the order performed:
Battery: New; but on Battery-Minder trickle-charger/desulphator from last Sunday afternoon through mid morning today (Saturday)
Post-to-Post: 12.63V
Post-to-post with key in "Start"; 12.50V
ST5 to Starter Housing with Key in Start: 10.5V (During this check, I realized the solitary "Click" was not coming from the start-solenoid, more likely the relay topside...but never got round to finger-checking that)
Took slightly over an hour's break to prepare and eat lunch, rattle Karl's cage via PM, and cogitate on the results achieved thus far..
Connected heavy jumper from Batt (-) to lower starter fixing stud: no joy
Maybe 20 minute break to go to the house for something (forgot what I went for and used the time to catch up on some scores as my son was "planking" while watching some games.)
Remembered I'd previously gone to the house for a trouble light and returned without it...so went back for it and invited planking son to come crank the car for me.
Measured 12.6V at output of each megafuse
Measured voltage-drop across each megafuse with key in start: 0V
Constructed long lead for meter - alligator clip on one end, ring terminal on opposite
Placed ring terminal on ST6; checked alligator clip with test-light and measured batt voltage on it.
Went back to the house and was overjoyed to find previously-planking son was in garage getting a bottle of water having just returned from an hour-long run with his pup. Invited him to come crank the car again.
Clipped alligator to black meter lead. Placed red lead on (+) post: Got 12.5V drop when key turned to start. (well in excess of Karl's spec of 0.5V max!)
Nearly gave up troubleshooting at this point, in favor of starter-swap owing to the fact of having a spare due to generosity of a good friend and fellow forum member. Decided, "What the hay...gotta crawl under and unhook the lead anyway.." so I took the alligator clip under with me, removed the ring from ST6, removed the large jumper cable from the fixing stud, and clipped long test lead alligator clip to starter housing fixing ear under previously-mentioned stud.
Took ring-terminal end back to boot, held it against red meter lead, stabbed black meter lead into batt (-) post and told my son, "Hit it!"
na-na-naVROOM!
"Harrumph! SHut it down."
Let go of both meter leads and placed meter to spare tire, "Try it again.."
VROoom!
So I turned off the lights, shut the shop doors and came to the house to shower and watch the 'Cats whoop up on Auburn.
Car has started successfully every time (4 or 5) I've attempted it since....
Haven't yet re-fit under tray and let it down...thinking to fit replacement starter and see if I can re-create the issue with removed starter on the bench.
Constructed long lead for meter - alligator clip on one end, ring terminal on opposite
Placed ring terminal on ST6; checked alligator clip with test-light and measured batt voltage on it.
Clipped alligator to black meter lead. Placed red lead on (+) post: Got 12.5V drop when key turned to start. (well in excess of Karl's spec of 0.5V max!)
Glad you got the starter going again, but these test results have me totally confused. If I understand you correctly, your test results indicate a complete break between the battery’s (+) post and terminal ST6 on the starter solenoid.
That test certainly indicates a fault, and it would definitely explain why the starter was dead. But then it came back to life, seemingly by itself. How can that be? Did you do anything in between, such as pull the starter megafuse to inspect it? Perhaps it was loose in the socket.
If you are ever in town for a game..I have 6 hometown tickets to every game. BBN Go Cats
Much appreciated! As a 1983 grad of UK, you know I know how hard a "get" tickets in Rupp are!
Originally Posted by kr98664
That test certainly indicates a fault, and it would definitely explain why the starter was dead. But then it came back to life, seemingly by itself. How can that be? Did you do anything in between, such as pull the starter megafuse to inspect it? Perhaps it was loose in the socket.
as the kids say...(used to say?) "I know, right?"
Nope Karl, I didn't even let much time elapse between the failed positive voltage drop test and the successful start during the neg voltage drop test.
I wrote the saga exactly as it transpired, though per my pm to you, earlier, there was a bit of time-lapse between after battery voltage drop test / ST5 test for lunch and cogitation, and all the rest of it that followed. As to the megafuse testing; All I did was prise the covers off each one, then use test-light and meter probes on the studs mounting the input and output cables. According to the diagram, the 450 is the only one responsible for the starter circuit, but I checked 'em both in the same manner. And executed several unsuccessful start attempts between megafuse testing and successful start! I'll take and post pics later of them uncovered so those who follow....and there will be some....will know where they are and how to access them. I've now edited my test results to account for the time car was unattended when unseen gremlins may've snuck into shop and mended it.
I will say the aforementioned generous friend and forum member and starter donor, had an intermittent problem like this that was ultimately resolved with a new starter assembly. Not certain but b'lieve he told me it was a failing solenoid. Anyway, given the same before-lunch test data via text that I sent you via PM, he replied, "Sounds like a bad starter, Bon Appetit" ...and this before lunch....several HOURS prior to successful start!
I guess it's kinda like the X300 guys that think their car demon-possessed when the IP starts flashing and all the WCA's (Warnings, Cautions, and Advisory lights) illuminate, then extinguish randomly during a drive with no interruption to performance. They look at us kinda funny when we say, "You got one or more bad coils, find and replace it/them and you'll be fine." "But I got no misfire codes?!?!" "Just do it." - Maybe once it happens to you, maybe you can just "feel" when it is tormenting another....? I dunno, I'm gonna swap the starter and see what happens.
i have a 2003 s- type jaguar 4.2 .i get power inside but the car doesnt spin over..it reads gear box issue and restricted performance.i can spin the starter over if i jump from the bottom but it will not spin over with the key.
Started fine this morning, and again after I removed the long test lead alligator clip. Wasn't connected to anything, just making sure it wasn't providing a necessary ground path or something. So I disconnected the battery and swapped out the starter. Worked just as well after starter replacement as before. No notion what the root cause is, but suspect an intermittent solenoid failure.
*Edit: I should add that I fit a wire brush to the drill and gave all cable ends and adjacent surfaces a good burnishing. Also cleaned up all the fixing hardware with the bench-brush and applied ACF-50 during refitting. One additional tip: there is a bracket fixing both harness connectors for the oxygen sensors, resulting in it, and perhaps more bothersome the oxy wiring looms being decidedly in the way. I removed the nut fixing the bracket somewhat belatedly, to aid in getting the starter down and out once all it's fixings were dealt with. With a do-over, I'd start with that one - it hinders your access to the fixings for the starter AND the connected cabling. Would be even more handy to disconnect the RH Oxy connector, but I didn't want to create a problem where previously there was none...so didn't truck with the 15 yr old plastic, under-car connector. Anyway, that is one use for your 10mm socket, the only other is for R&R of the smaller electrical connection on the start solenoid. Everything else is 13mm.
Here are a few pics for anyone facing a similar issue. The mega fuses are located behind the trim on the right side of the boot above the battery. I don't know if you can see it in the pics, but the plastic covers say "Lift this end" at the top. However, as you can see, they are locked in place by four prongs in the middle. It would seem squeezing in the middle would be the proper way to remove the covers, but I pried at the top with a screwdriver and eventually freed them.
Starter replacement requires 10mm and 13 mm sockets, a 13mm combo wrench, and a 2.5" extension if using a 3/8" drive and deepwell 13 mm.
Mega fuses Mega fuse location Mega fuses uncovered for testing; input on bottom, output at top The "fix" I erred in yesterday's description. It was on the ear by the lower fixing bolt, not the stud.
01-23-2020 | 08:17 PM
2005 S Type Start issue
