Any updates?

 

@kr98664 Back with an update. I haven't done much until today as I've been slammed with work and family.

Well, thus far, I've just ordered a new gear selector. I've completely taken the other one apart to get to the circuit board to see if there were any burnt circuits. Everything looked clean, and I didn't see anything that looked out of the norm, but that doesn't mean much. Otherwise, the mechanism works just fine, I'm probably suspecting two components other than the circuit board. When the gear selector is in the park position there is a little click when you pull the selector to left to pull the car out of park, but I believe I've eliminated that. When the car is turned off, and the keys are removed from the ignition, I'll get a little beep noise when I pull left and try to pull the selector out of the park position. So at least that appears to be working.

The other electrical component is the switch that allows the driver to move the car our of the park gear. I was going to test the resistance of that part, but I can't find the spec on it. Does anyone know where to find that?

I'm wondering if that solenoid looking thing would prevent the network from picking up the gear selector?

Anyways, if the gear selector that I just purchased doesn't work, I'll have to start poking around elsewhere. Any other ideas out there?

 

BTW, the solenoid that I'm referring to is this one:

 

From an earlier message, when the gear selection doesn't illuminate in any position, that is a huge clue.

Don't get sidetracked by the park interlock solenoid, or the switch that controls it. Even if either of those had failed, it shouldn't inhibit the starter. A failure there would prevent shifting out of park, but you should still be able to start the engine.

Concentrate on why none of the position indicators will illuminate. The starter is inhibited unless the ECM knows the transmission is in P or N. Unless you've got a blown fuse or loose connector, the J-gate assembly is the most likely culprit.

 

Bumpity bump! Did the new J-gate fix the problem?

Inquiring minds want to know...

 

@kr98664 Nope! I’ve been so busy, just finishing up my MBA. I haven’t had time to do ANYTHING, but now that Covid is among us I actually had a few minutes to install the new j-gate, and I’m sorry to report that the symptom is the same.

I’m pondering on where to go next. Any thoughts? Anyone else have any ideas?

One thing that I noticed, is that when I step on the brake, the solenoid in the video above doesn’t do anything. When the key is in the ignition, even before turning over, should that activate? In the video above, the car is running, and when he activates the brake, that solenoid activates, but I can’t tell if that’s only a function when the car is running, and not prior to startup.

Holy smokes! Looking forward to some new thoughts. Thanks!

 

I think I need to go back and test the brake pedal switch.

 

Sorry, I'm stumped. Not sure what to suggest next. Check the brake switch like you're thinking, but I don't think that will inhibit the starter. The brake switch has to actuate the interlock solenoid so you can shift out of Park, but I thought you'd still be able to start the engine.

Do the P, N, D (etc) indicators illuminate on the new shifter assembly? If not, maybe try checking at night. Sometimes they can be hard to see in bright sunlight. I'm still leaning towards the lack of indicator lights as the primary clue. The starter is inhibited if the computer has no feedback that the transmission is in P or N.

 

hi
is this the original gearbox, or has it been swapped, have you had the car running before
cheers
Joe

 

On a ZF transmission, where is the neutral safety switch, or whatever it's called. I'm talking about the switch that provides the feedback for the gear engaged at the transmission. Is it internal or external? If external, and access isn't too bad, it might be worth shotgunning a new one.

if internal, you might want to start with some wiring checks at the transmission. Look for power and ground, etc.

 

Post #17 & #3...

 

@Joedotcom It's the original transmission.

@kr98664 Take a look at this thread. I'm having some of these same issues, but the thing thats different here is the no start condition. https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...-141375/page5/

@JagV8 Yup, I looked that those initially. Those are rock solid. I'll investigate again, just in case I over looked it.

 

I've gone back to your very first message in this thread. Can you please confirm a few things about these fuses?

Very important, and I don't believe it's been covered in this thread, but are you aware there are three fuse panels in the car? You've got the front power distribution box under the hood. The rear power distribution box is in the trunk, under the floor and next to the spare tire. The third is the primary junction fuse box, located just outboard of the front US passenger's feet, in the door hinge area. I had my car for several years before I was aware of this small, hidden third panel. There's a VIF (Very Important Fuse) for the transmission in this third panel, and if you were checking at the wrong panel...

I'm confused by the three fuses you listed as having been inspected and checking good:

1) F2 - At which of the three panels? At the front box, this feeds the air injection system, so that makes no sense for chasing a no-crank condition. At the rear box, it is part of the cigarette lighter circuit. At the primary junction box, I'm not seeing an F2. So please confirm which panel and fuse number you were checking. Maybe that's a typo?

2) F15 - This is the VIF, located in the primary junction box. If like me and were unaware of this third panel and had inadvertently checked F15 at the front or rear panels, those have nothing to do with a no-crank.

3) F33 - At the front box, this one is also part of the transmission circuit, so I think you were on the correct fuse.


From what I see, primary junction box fuse F15 would remove power from the indicator lights on the J-gate, and the solenoid that locks the lever in Park. Fuse F33 at the front box would shut off the transmission control module. Please make sure those two are good before proceeding.

If those two fuses (at the correct panels!) are good, it's possible your ignition switch may have failed. The ignition switch has multiple poles, basically a group of independent switches on a common shaft and actuated simultaneously. The pole feeding the transmission circuit also powers a number of other circuits, but you wouldn't notice they were also dead until after the engine had started. But there is one quick test you can do to confirm this important pole of the ignition switch is working properly. At the front power distribution box, locate relay R3 (ignition coil power) and place your finger on it. Have a helper turn the key to the Run position (No need to go to Start). You should feel this relay click.

Please look at these things and let us know what you find.

 

I'm not seeing much similarity. You've got a no-crank, no indicator lights at the J-gate, and a gearbox fault message. Those are the biggies, the primary problem. Your other messages are probably secondary faults, caused by whatever is affecting the transmission control module and/or J-gate. Nowhere in that thread did I see any mention of primary symptoms you have.

In the kindest manner possible, you will wear yourself out going down rabbit holes instead of troubleshooting the condition staring you in the face. To the best of my knowledge, you're not a climate research scientist, so please don't try to arrive at a predetermined conclusion. Look at your present symptoms and troubleshoot accordingly. Go where the clues take you. Please see post #33 above for what may be as simple as an inadvertently overlooked fuse, and a simple test of the ignition switch. After that, we can walk you through some more basic checks, such as checking power and ground at some strategic points.

 

Here are some more easy electrical checks you can do, after checking the fuses and ignition switch as detailed in post #33 above. These tests are making sure the starter relay (R20 in the front power distribution box) has power available and is receiving the command to energize the starter. Based on the lack of indicator lights at the J-gate, I suspect this relay is NOT getting the command, so let's make sure.

At the front power distribution box, place your finger on relay R20. Have a helper turn the key to start. Even if nothing else happens, you should feel a click at R20. If it does, that's a very good sign, as it means the relay is receiving the command to energize the starter.

1) If you feel a click at R20 with the key to Start:

• At the front power distribution box, check fuse F27.
• If fuse F27 is good, swap relays R3 and R20. (R3 is the ignition coil relay, previously passing the click test in post #33, so we know at least the actuating coil portion of that relay is good.) With the relays swapped, have a helper turn the key to start again and repeat the click test at location R20. If you now feel a click, the starter may actually energize, although the engine probably won't run by itself because the bad relay now won't power the ignition coils. Replace the bad relay and hopefully you'll be all set.

2) If you don't feel a click at R20 with the key to Start:

• Check fuse F1 at the primary junction box (the small panel inside the cabin).
• Remove relay R20. Connect a voltmeter to read battery voltage at socket #1. (The sockets usually are not labeled, but the prongs on the relays do have numbers so you can identify the sockets the way.) Turn the key to start and you should see battery voltage at socket #1. (Edit: No voltage at any other key position)
• Change your meter to read ohms. Touch the leads together and make sure the display shows good continuity.
• Connect one lead to socket #2 and the other lead to a good ground. With the key off, you should not see any continuity.
• Turn the key to start. If the engine control module is satisfied with all prestart conditions, it will now provide a ground at socket #2 to energize relay R20 and send power to the starter.

These tests are not difficult at all, and will take maybe ten minutes at the most. Try these to confirm whether the ECM is satisfied and will send the command to energize the starter relay.

 

Any progress?

 

Going once...

Going twice...

Sigh, sometimes I wonder why do I bother.

 

I'm going to roll this thing out into the street and set it on fire.

I've been away again, BUT I'm back and will start banging away on this beater again using your guidance above. I promise to let you know how it turns out. Either it runs, or it goes down in flames.

Reporting back soon.

 

It appears that we’ve been chasing around a bad ground. In the rear fender well there is a ground that was completely rusted off. Checking the rest of the grounds on the car and will report back with the results.

@kr98664

 

@kr98664

It was a wire from fuse 33 in the under hood block that goes to the transmission. The wire supplies constant battery voltage to the transmission control module, and for whatever reason that wire failed from rubbing near the passenger bumper. Replaced the wire and it now purrs.

I remember some conversation about a capacitor on one of those wires. Was almost certain the capacitor failed, but it was just the section of wire that needed to be replaced. Was dropping voltage, but isn’t now that it was replaced.

Any idea on how to mark this thread as solved?