Wow, you made me feel better about my dyno numbers (342/360ish torque). Granted yours is on a mustang dyno, but man, those are some low #'s.

I've said this a few times on here, but with how our intercooler setups are, I don't see the pullies adding much up top(hp) but they do add in the mid range. I believe that with how the ecu's pull timing, the added heat generated isn't translated into hp. I know that our cars have good heads and I know the blower is capable (mustangs with similar engines have made over 500 rwhp with this blower) but I've yet to see over 400 with our cars. My car is supposed to be putting out 16.9 psi (although I haven't verified yet) but it's still not putting out much more power than stock. My intake elbow probably added about as much power as my ported and re-geared blower.

I really thought(originally when I got my blower worked on) with my mods I would be pushing close to 400 rwhp. Unfortunately, it just hasn't happened.

Well, see what they say. Unfortunately we'll never know what your car made before the tune which is a huge bummer. I emailed them a while back about working on my car since I was local and they didn't want anything to do with it due to my mods (ported and re-geared blower, exhaust and alcohol injection).

I'm really hoping that someone will crack 400rwhp or at least 375 someday on here...

 

OESIII, Robin, qwiketz, et al, when considering your STR's mods, all are making well over 440 chp. Aside from owner/dyno operator error of not selecting 4th gear and disabling DSC during the dyno runs, you'll never be able to determine accurate dyno numbers due to not being able to completely disable DSC. During a dyno run there's rear wheel slippage, causing DSC to kick in the ABS, in turn braking during the dyno run. Disable ABS by pulling the fuse/module, and here you'll be able to unleash all her glory. During and after my dyno run, we all smelled burning rubber, and the DSC was flashing too. MY 03 STR kicks ***. Today I took a 2012 Mustang GT 5.0 for a spin (Yes, I did spin her). This thing kicks ***!!. It'll kick an SS Camaro's *** with one cylinder behind its back, and kick the *** of most in its class. Following the "Test" drive, I said to the sales man that if this thing kicks ***, I can only imagine what the 440 hp Boss or 600 hp Shelby GT 500 would do. Got back in my STR, disabled DSC and put her in sport mode...she's fast...more hp and torque than the Stang...just a bit more comfortable and heavier. Disable ABS and you'll recieve your well earned 375+ rwhp.

 

@Bfgross
No need to pull any fuses, something like this has never happened to the 4.2 cars I have dyno'ed. Have you already tried to dyno yours?

@All
Sorry to repeat it again, but first always do a base dyno run, this way you will know if your car is up to spec and all is functioning well, I see this happen so many times unfortunately, even to such an extend that people want to start tuning arround a problem just because they didn't get the expected results. Base dynos of your stock car are priceless.

@oesiii
Can you post the dyno slip, including a/f ratio?

 

Hey Robin:
It was a pretty depressing day after those numbers.I was expecting more on the lines of 370HP & 370 torque,so the numbers I got were really crappy.The thing I don't get is that the car runs great.I had a bit of hesitation before the tune which I did'nt feel after the tune,but the numbers don't lie.When you consider the XFRs make 510HP and are only running 12.7s stock,where the heck are we going with the STRs.I really love the car,but even at 62 I still have the competitiveness to kick it to the floor when challenged and I really hate to lose,especially to a car that costs half the price.The problem is those cars are able to create more power than ours.A stock 2012 Mustang GT is running 12.7s and at $26,000.00 brand new.The trouble is,is that it looks like s##t.Really plain.I've been spoiled with the luxury and styling of the STR,which I think is classier than the XFR.Have'nt hit the lottery,so I can't afford both the STR & a GT500.What to do?What to do?The other thing is even if we could get more power,the trans.is only rated to handle a max.of 440 torque.I know some say they have that and more and so far their trans.is holding up,but if it does'nt will we have the money to replace them?I probably will be second mortgaging my house for a new trans.Sure wish we were working with at least a 5.0.I don't know if I want to blow another $125.00 for another dyno read.I called two other places near me and spoke to them about my dyno results and they both stated that they had the same Mustang MD 500 dynamometer and the results would probably be about the same.It's supposed to a very accurate machine.I'm sure Jaguar has the technology to put out a ballsier car and for their prices they should have made these cars with more *****,but it is what it is I guess.Thanks for getting back to me.I'll let you know what ECU Tuning Group has to say when I get in touch with them.
Hopefully you'll get some good results when you change pulleys.Good luck!
OESIII

 

Hey qwiketz,bfsgross & avos,I did'nt mean to not acknowledge you guys,I did'nt see your threads.They say ignorance is bliss.It's not! If I would have posted some threads before ECU Tuning Group and the mods,I would have known from you to dyno the car first.Then I'd know what the car was making to begin with.Now I don't know what's going on.I believe the Mustang MD 500 dyno is an all wheel drive dyno.I don't know if that would make a difference or not.My son took the car for the dyno,so I don't know what gear they had the car in.It could have been in drive.What would the difference be if that was the case?Also I don't know if they disabled the DSC.Again ignorance is not bliss.Ignorance makes you feel dumb.Like now!What is the DSC?Is that the computer?If you pull the fuse module to disable the ABS,you won't have to disable the DSC?With your help I'll get this right and then I'll call Crazy House Customs back and see if they dynoed it properly.I'll bet they ran it in drive and did'nt disable anything.The car reallly does feel faster to me than when I first bought it.From a dead stop and while it's rolling.Like I stated to Robin earlier,there was noticable hesitation no matter when I kicked it down until after the tune.Now,I stomp,it goes.I'll have to get all the facts from the dyno shop and get back to you.Thanks for listening and the advice.
OESIII

 

Avos, My first and only dyno occured almost two years ago. I didn't immediately recieve the dyno slip due to the dyno shop policy of e-mailing the slip. They dicked me for two months which then I petitioned my bank to reverse the charges... It was then that the crap dyno shop e-mailed the slip revealing 350 rwhp. The slip is gone. Otherwise, there was a unavoidable smell of burning tire rubber, and the ABS light remained on for a few miles on the return trip. During the pulls I personally witnessed the blinking DSC and eventual ABS warning light. Do the non-American STR recieve a different ECU program? We know they don't have a speed limiter as does the 155 mph North American STR's. OESIII, you feel more seat of the pants performance following the ECU tune? Then don't fret. Your STR is likely making 25+ more ponies. Do you have the qwiketz air intake tube? It'll allow it all to come together. Pop on an x-pipe immediately after the trans.($80 cost plus install ($80= $160). This'll def. smooth her out and produce more torque. The Stang is for the kid in you.... The motor is smooth but screams, the ride was somewhat stiff, the tires made noise, all this causes one to not drive it civil, stabbing the gas is amost unavoidable. The rear object camara shows a color monitor in the rear view mirror...really neat but IMO useless.

 

The saga continues.... I spoke this morning with a gentleman named Phil from Eurotech Designs located in Bronxville NY as they are Tuners of Many cars.

:: Eurotek ::

Phil mentioned that a Stage 1 upgrade (part list coming) could net an STR the following
50 HP and 55ftbs. In general, they're talking about a full race exhaust, in conjunction with the State 1 upper pulley and ecu tune. He spoke to the displacement of the 4.2 litre engine which is small and that if we were looking to get a lot more than that, it could get radically expensive.

Since they're about 38 miles from my NY address, I'm going to go visit them in two weeks and dyno my car before making any modifications. I'll discuss everything in forum and let people know options so everyone can partake in the adventure.

He did also make mention of some modifications the the airflap that is in the present airbox in this stage 1 implementation. He mentioned that those of us who have cars with some mileage on them i.e. over 100k, there could be complications as the upgrades are implemented because the parts are pretty worn at that juncture. I think for me, getting 50 additional HP proven and the 55lb's of foot torq dyno'd would make me quite happy at this juncture.

1000 was his starting mark pricewise.

 

@Bfgross,
Certainly a shop never to visit again, they always must make time for a good pull and ensure that there is no slippage. DSC must always be turned off, as most dyno rollers are not linked together, but I have never had to pull any fuses, not even on imported American 2005 XKR that pulled 470 rwhp, so that excludes that possibility.

@Oesiii
I mention it in general that you always must do a base dyno run before you start tuning, or at least have it checked by someone that understand our cars very well, so they know if the base is good.

So can you show the dyno slip? It may reveal more info. Did they do a 4 wheel drive run? These 4wd dynos can also be used just to measure 1 axle, so I suspect the latetr was the case.

Personally I dislike the type of dynos that use 2 small drums per wheel; they are far more off with their rwhp readings than what you can expect to the asphalt, especially if the tire pressure is too low. Best is to use a dyno that has 1 large drum per wheel, these also have less chance of wheel slippage, and as most of my experience is with these I can’t comment on the figures you mentioned. However there was an xkr that had about 380 or so rwhp on a 1 drum per wheel dyno (on these you can use a 17% drive train loss, so would be about 457HP), and he got about 340rwhp on a dual roll per wheel dyno, which could indeed be closer to the 25% drive train loss mentioned by your dyno man, as 340 would then be about 453 HP. Don’t take it all as exact figures, just as indications!

@Docuzzie
$1000 for 50 hp is cheap and worth it, but I would certainly do a base dyno run, and ask for a discount if you don't get 50 hp more on the after dyno ;-)

 

The more I hear about the problems with dynos is the more I am, like bfsgross, inclined to instal the performance upgrades and let my butt do the testing. However, here's the plan if each step below is successful:

1.. Make sure DSC is turned off.
2.. Dyno my stock 2005 STR with K&N and qwiketz tube already installed.
3.. Check to make sure we are talking 320-335 rwhp.
4.. Fit the 1.7 lb pulley.
5.. See what ECU tuning will commit to by way of guarantees.
6.. Invest $1000 in an ECU tune.
7.. Do another dyno test after the ECU/pulley upgrade.
8.. Curse or congratulate ECU Tuning.

The dyno belongs to HPA Motorsports, a well-known local company who use Audi and Porsche parts to make Volkswagens go faster than Ferraris without voiding the warranty. Would appreciate if someone experienced like Avos could Google HPA Motorsports and confirm that the dyno is indeed world-class.

 

Great dyno! Especially with the eddy current part (I always use this type myself).

- Have them place a load on it so the time taken to accelerate mimics more real life time, this will eliminate some the inertia losses from the drivetrain, as with just the inertia of the drums the run might be to short (they understand this, no worries)
- use only 1 axle (2wd setup)
- dyno in 4th gear, only press full throttle once you are above 4000 rpm (so you don't get a downshift), and of course DSC off.
- I always set my tires to 2.5 bar (important is to have them the same between runs).
- when you put your car on the dyno, let it run for a while in idle with the shop fans on and with airco on , this will set the coolant fan in working, so will help to take away some of the heat soak (just check if the intercoolers are touchable with your hands again). I

Try always to get similar situations, than it will be best comparable, so ideally try to do 2 or 3 runs per test.

Make sure they also test the a/f ratio, and that the dyno slip shows what dyno correction has been made (ie SAE, DIN, STD).

 

Thank you, Avos!

I have printed out your comments and will take them to HPA. 2.5 bar is about 37 psi, so I will make sure the tires are OK. First dyno test is scheduled for Tuesday June 5th. The cost is $175, but these guys know what they are doing - how else could they get a VW R32 Golf doing 0 - 60 in 3.0 seconds and going over 200 mph?

 

I notice the STR like other oem supercharged applications, has the intercooler(s) integrated into the manifold assembly, and cooled by engine coolant.

Does the STR have a dedicated circuit for the intercoolers water system? Or is it pressurized by the same 200f engine coolant as the motor uses to cool with? It's driven by it's own water pump (electric?) if I'm not mistaken, but I'm pretty sure it still shares coolant with engine. I imagine there would be some impressive gains to be had if one could develop an entirely independent intercooler coolant circuit, with it's own reservoir and heat exchanger.

The other thing, would be water/methanol injection. Also a great solution to cool charge air and push blower efficiency way past reasonable levels.

These are two major upgrades to consider for anyone thinking of pushing the envelope of STR ouput on stock eaton.

 

In effect it has a separate coolant circuit and it is normally much cooler than the engine circuit. It has its own separate radiatior, too. I think this has been said quite a few times, including in this very thread.

 

Hi Folks:
I made a mistake.The dyno used was a Power Dyne,not a Mustang MD500.I don't know if that makes a difference or not.I believe they're both all wheel drive dynoes.The MD500 is supposed to be very accurate and there's a garage by me that has one,so I'll probably take it there to compare the numbers.I'll make sure the tires are at 37 PSI,it's in 4th gear,the ABS is disabled,it's in sport mode and the DSC is disabled (what is the DSC?).Is this all correct?I need to call the garage where I had it dynoed and ask if they did any of the above.
bfs,I felt a difference after the tune.Maybe it's because the stock hesitation is gone.It just seems more responsive on acceleration.I do have a qwiketz into a cone K&N,but the tech at the dyno garage and Jags Gill at ECU Tuning Group both stated that the cone filter sucks too much hot air in from the engine compartment causing a loss of power and that the qwiketz into the original cold air box would be much better.Also,I already have an X pipe replacing the resonators and Magna Flows replacing the stock mufflers.Plus a 1.7lb. pulley.(What power gains from a 1.7 to a 3lb.pulley are expected?)So you see the dyno numbers seem very low for what's been done so far.I don't know if they dynoed to measure one axle or not.I'll ask when I call them.My son brought the car there,so I'm not sure what they did.I'll also get my son to post the dyno slip.I don't know my way around a computer that well.I'm an old pencil and paper guy. Thanks for listening.Have a great day.OESIII

 

OESIII, You dynoed on a dyno that is more scrutinous (tougher on the numbers) than the Mustang dyno. You'll likely yield higher numbers on the Mustang dyno. Def. put the stock airbox on. Place a flat panel K&N a/f too. Before heatsoak sets in, the 3 lb pulley will help with more power than the 1.7 pulley. As she sits, I'm betting your STR is belting out close to 450 chp.

 

Docuzzie, I met with Phil of Eurotek two years ago. He knows the STR well. He'll perform an ECU tune and retune at no charge should you perform additional mods.

 

okay, time to chime in....

First all, you need to do before and after dynos on everything you can if cost effective. I strongly encourage anyone to dyno my intake pipes for a reason; if they do well the customer is happy and in the end I sell more.

Secondly, you don't end up with situations like this that you don't know if the car was performing poorly prior to the mods. Here's an example. My car dyno'd at 299ish and 312 toque the first and second dyno runs. After swapping on my intake tube, it jumped up to 338 hp and then 342 hp on the second run. My car had an intake "vertex" type unit that cost me a ton of hp that I didn't even know that was in there.

As far as on the dynos..., I've always experienced dyno operrator will shut off the dsc and then run the car. It will run but it will give an error code. After the dyno run, the scanner needs to be connected and the error code will neeed to be erased. My car did perfectly fine on the dyno other than the code.

@gt42r= yes, it does have an intcooling cirucit that is supposed to be independent of the radiator circuit other than a crossover tube but we don't know anything about how effective it is. I haven't seen any temp #'s mentioned from data logging yet. I can only speculate based on how hot they are to the touch that they work like crap(the intercoolers). I'd love to see an ice box hooked up or killer chiller or even bigger heat exchanger with an isolated curcuit.

Finally, to Doc.... those are reasonable goals, but have a before and after dyno done. There aren't many people that can pull off that power gain on here as modest as it seems. And you already have my pipe that will take care of 10 to 14 of that. Adding the k & n will add a few more.

People out there, don't believe what everyone tells you otherwise.....

Edit... a little scatter brained today but the main reason about the dynos that I mentioned is because I reearally go screwed by not dynoing my car prior to porting and re-gearing the blower. My hose under the blower blew before I could do it(a week after buying the car; shady dealer) so I was out of luck on this. After the fact a forum member spent his money on it and got hosed and I felt bad but had not concrete basis for my allegations.

 

Regarding ECU tunes: Agree with qwiketz. They all make claims with the STR but without dyno sheets.

 

bfsgross:I hope you're right about the chp.I called the garage with the Mustang dyno and they're moving to a new location on Saturday.The tech said they'll call me next week to schedule as soon as they're all set up.It's $125.00 for three runs which is okay.I also called Krazy House Customs where I had the car dynoed and their tech told me that they dynoed the car with the car in 4th,ABS and DSC off and a/c off.I was hoping he was going to tell me he had everything on,but it was done correctly.We'll see what the Mustang MD500 has to say,hopefully some time late next week.I'm probably going to put the 3lb.pulley on if it's going to make a significant difference.Do you guys use any special tool to take the pulley off.ECU Tuning Group lent me a puller which made the work a breeze.Also I was considering a meth/water injection system.(Plus a 750hp Whipple twin screw and a Cobra rear and a?Only kidding).Talk to you soon.
OESIII

 

ORSIII, the move from a 1.7 lb pulley requires the pulley remover then grinding down the snout of the supercharger. A "Chiller Killer" is needed to rapidly cool down the intercooler/charge cooler circuit in between runs. Methyl/alcohol injection is another option and/or be used in conjunction with a "Chiller Killer". If you noticed increased low end and midrange hp/torque with the 1.7 pulley...imagine much more with a 3 lb.