Hi all,

I've been reading the form for the past couple of days trying to find an answer to my question and have had no luck. I'm a Computer Science student working on an in-car research project called RoadLAB at the University of Western Ontario. We have recently switched our testbed from a 2009 Cadillac CTS to 2008 Jaguar S-type, and part of my work is to pull vehicle state data off of the CANbus. My problem is that the Cadillac, was quit, well.. verbose in the data that was available on the CANbus, the S-Type seems much more reserved in the data readily available. (I'm sure there is a British v. American joke there somewhere.) I am thinking that perhaps the instrumentation are on a different bus (LIN?) where data would have to be requested, but I can't seem to find any data on the 2008.

So this is my question, is there a source for technical data on the 2008 S-Type? It must be after Jaguar implemented CAN standards (I think 2008) so the older data on the FAQ page doesn't help me here.

If the data isn't available has anyone had dealings with talking to Jaguar about technical questions like this? (My experience with GM was less than helpful, short of a big cash outlay and promises of bringing a product to market in a relatively short period of time.)

If anyone can point me in the right direction, or point out my inability to find information that exists I would appreciate it as this is becoming quite frustrating. I have directed questions to a couple of departments at Jaguar Canada, but as of yet I haven't heard much.

Cheers,
~EB

 

There is a vast amount of data available - so much that you are unlikely to want even a fraction of it.

You can get data from almost every module - about 20 of them.

If you want to know the details you have a few options:
1. use the way OBD tool makers do it - join etools - but it is $1000s
2. buy a dealer-type tool; these vary from jag's own ($1000s) to AutoEnginuity ($500-ish)
3. borrow a tool and snoop on the packets it uses
4. snoop on the bus

The same answer is almost entirely true for all car makes now that CAN is the mandated sole standard (but AutoEng may not be available for them all).

As a CS student I feel you should be doing #4

So... you want a CAN interface and some fast software (expect lots of data).

If you want to roll your own CAN, plenty of chips to choose from.
For pre-built consider a USB elm327 and put it into high speed everything and snoop. Do not expect Windows to keep up with the data!!

In case you only want ordinary ("generic") OBD values, things are almost trivially easy. Just read the various standards (SAE or ISO) and the elm data sheet and you'll see what I mean.

 

I am currently using a kVaser Leaf OBD-II CAN interface to read data off the bus. The problem isn't that I'm not getting data, but rather that the data I've been pulling off is frustratingly static.

I have, as you say, found ~22 different modules, but the data on them seems for the most part unchanging, (or at least not connected in any straightforward fashion.) I could have sworn I read something to the effect that Jaguar instrumentation was on a LIN bus, and that you had to actively request the data from the associated Controller if you wanted to read it from the OBD-II port, but I'll be damned if I can find where I read that. (perhaps I misread, or perhaps I'm imagining things.)

I am fairly confident in my ability to read data from the CANbus, (I was able to infer a fairly significant amount of vehicle state data from the previous test car.) I assume that my roadblock is my lack of understanding regarding the way Jaguar deals with car data vs GM, and thus my desire to find some technical data on the '08 model specifically. (Or if it is sufficiently similar, some documentation on the XF's CANbus might shed some light on my frustrations.)

 

The XF's will also be available from etools (probably: only).

You should be seeing lots of data (I do). I'm not aware of any LIN in our cars but if there is any it would be far lower speed and not for vital functions such as engine (think about LIN's characteristics!).

What data do you want that isn't in the generic OBD standards?

 

The RoadLAB initiative is designed to provide a research platform for driver behaviour, and driver-error caused accident mitigation research.

The short answer to your last question is, everything I can get my hands on. Since I am helping to build the research testbed, I am not entirely sure what things will be deemed important in future research and so I need to pull as much vehicle state data as possible. I am interested in everything from driver telemechanic inputs (steering wheel and pedal position, shifter position, wiper and turn signal activation etc) to vehicle operation states (wheel speed, traction control and ABS activation, transmission state etc) to cabin conditions(environmental and entertainment system states) to non driving related distractions (passenger sensors, console interaction mobile phone activation etc)

The more reading I do, the more I am convinced that my previous work has been a little too GM-centric, in that I have come to rely on their Single Wire CAN network too much. I'm not entirely sure what data is available through the OBD standards, but I've begun looking into that as well.

Part of my problem is that at the moment the purchase of a car means that my project (the smallest of 4 research focuses) has little in the way of resources, so unless I can show the necessity of an investment into something like etools, I am stuck with the hardware I have.

When you say you are getting, "lots of data." What is the nature of that data? Is it dynamic based on the operation of the car? Or is it more diagnostic in nature?

 

If you bought a car, particularly a 2008 S-Type 4.2, without deciding what data you would want and without finding out before buying how to get it then you're in a tight place that I can't do much about. That you're only now starting to read the OBD standards amazes me. Sorry but I have better things to do than spend more time on this.

 

Man, you college guys get NICE cars to use as testbeds!!!
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.
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How you spend your time is up to you. But lets keep this clear.

1) I bought no car, nor did I have any say in its purchase.
2) I originally asked for information sources not answers.
3) GM has a Single Wire can instrumentation bus making OBD generally unneeded and I have been working with the S-Type for a few weeks now, so I don't know why you think I should be an expert in Jaguar's OBD system.
4) I do not know why you are copping an attitude but I don't seem to remember forcing you to answer any questions, nor do I see that my questions are that unreasonable.

Thank you for the what little information you did provide and I'm sorry if my questions bothered you.

Cheers