Rockauto.com - cant post a direct link. 05 LS 3.0. The four seasons one, and it's SPECED for the jags (S and X types) as well. It's actually 264.00

Motorcraft one doesnt specify the Jags: Part # YC2478 may come w/out clutch

Reciever dryer for the four seasons one 26.79 - same category, 05 ls 3.0. Motorcraft is $57 - YL190.

Everything we have gotten from four seasons is reboxed oem so far but your mileage may vary...

I fully agree that I've been spoiled by my brother... But I've also turned many a wrench for him when he's been in a pinch. And every time he gets an electrical nightmare, I'm on speed dial. The business was originally started years ago by my late father. He followed in the footsteps, I went off to the Marines, and then college....

George

 

Per rockauto.com's informational details, that Four Seasons compressor (part no. 78586) includes the clutch and is spec'ed for 2000 to 2003 S-Types. I would think that if it fits a 2003 S-Type, it will fit my 2005 model. Agreed?

Glad to hear that your experience with Four Seasons thus far has been essentially re-boxed OEM stuff. It may be worth a shot in this case. Looks like the Four Seasons warranty is twice as long as the Motorcraft warranty, too....

 

Well, Jaguar only specs one part number for ALL 3.0 X-types, and 3.0 S-Types:
So if it fits an 00-03, I'd venture to guess it would fit an 05

C2S47472-REB - $650 reman from Jagbits..

edit: that INCLUDES A $200 core charge that's refunded when you send the core back. So, $450 net for the compressor.

http://www.jagbits.com/mm5/merchant....Type_Climate_1

George

 

Jon,

You also want an A/C Gasket and Seal set. It's cheap (under $20) but I'd never re use an o-ring or seal in a system designed to have that much pressure in it.

George

 

George,

Does rockauto.com sell the A/C gasket and seal set as well? Didn't see it, but I really don't know what I'm looking for....

 

Yessir... Here you go:

 

Thanks George....

Anything other miscellaneous parts needed to replace the compressor and receiver/dryer? If not, I'm going to call the shop this afternoon, propose that I supply the necessary parts when I bring them the car, and offer to pay them for their labor and expertise. I don't expect them to be thrilled and won't be too surprised if they refuse....

 

If I were u I'd approach it with an I well I ordered the stuff online, but now I'm in over my head , dont have time etc...kind of story... Not a well I don't want to pay your markup deal...


George

 

I respectfully disagree with your approach. I expect honesty and professionalism from the repair shop. They should expect the same from me. I haven't gotten myself into a bind, I just don't like paying inflated prices for parts! And I have no qualms letting them know that. If they won't work with me, then I have some decisions to make. Either pay their rates or attempt to find another shop....

 

I can go with that. I see where you're coming from. It's just that they may be more inclined to take the job if they know they aren't going to get it if they refuse to accept your parts. Parts markup is a good 30-40% of the profit in a shop, and it's one of the things that's always kind of irked me about the business. Sort of double dipping if you will. The other issue is convenience. A lot of shops just use one or two parts supply houses, plus the dealers for "dealer only" parts. They want stuff delivered quickly, and they want volume discounts with the parts suppliers. They have no particular interest in shopping around to get you a better parts price, because they are just going to pass it on, including their markup.

See I think most mechanics and shops rely on lack of knowledge of the general public, whether it's sourcing parts, or true repair times v/s "book hours". Its rare that a shop will come out and actually be honest about what they are making. The only time shops get hurt is with warranty work. Especially with certain parts suppliers, who refuse to reimburse shops for the labor spent replacing THEIR faulty parts. If you can find a shop that will establish this sort of relationship for you, and they do good work, that would be a good guy to keep handy.

I've seen it all, from prices going up or down based on "attitude", what the person does for a living, whether the shop owner thinks the person can afford it.. etc. Maybe I've just become extremely cynical to the business due to my exposure to it.

Most shops will be infuriated simply if you explain to them that you are aware of how they charge. They think it's some deep dark secret.

Edit: If you want to check the shop's "honesty" I'll stop by my brothers and check what the book hours are for an A/C comp R&R on an 05 3.0 is. Lets compare that to what he's trying to charge. I'll gladly do this for anyone, just because it's the dishonest shops that have given mechanics / shops the bad name.

George

 

The lead A/C tech at the shop told me that it is probably a 3-hour job, maybe a little longer. I would remove the undertray myself before taking the car to them. I don't want anyone else losing my screws and bolts or messing up my undertray system. Their labor prices are broken down on my estimate as follows:

Complete A/C system flush including condenser, evaporator, and lines = $89.95

Remove and replace compressor = $171.00

Remove and replace receiver/dryer = $114.00

Add sufficient refrigerant oil, recharge with sufficient 134a = $77.93


My AAA Membership Card gets me a $45.29 discount on this job....


I commented that they probably rarely see these S-Types. His immediate reply was, "You'd be surprised - I probably work on 25 to 30 of them each year. They're certainly not common, but there are more of them around than you think. Most of them seem very well cared for."

 

Without checking book rates, that seems reasonable. I'm assuming the shop's hourly labor rate is 89.95? Hence the price on the A/C service?

He's booking 4.15 hrs here at that price. I can't imagine it booking for MUCH less.

The only thing I have a bit of an issue with is the r134a charge considering he's going to recover and reuse your r134a on someone else, yet they always charge u as if they constantly use new.

George

 

I won't quibble with paying for one more 134a evacuation and recharge. It's not enough money to battle about....

Just had a long phone conversation with the manager of the shop. As I suspected, they won't touch my sourced parts. They make their profit off both parts and labor (I know that all too well), and corporate policy will not allow them to use customer-supplied parts. I offered to sign a waiver releasing them from their 2-year/24,000-mile warranty if I could supply my own parts. He wouldn't budge. No surprise there....

I did manage to gain one concession on the phone, however. If they do this compressor and receiver/dryer job for me and it doesn't fix my A/C problem, they will continue to perform all additional diagnostics and A/C system repair at no charge to me until they get the A/C problem resolved. I don't think it will come to that, but it is certainly good insurance to have in case the new compressor and receiver/dryer don't solve the issue. I'm leaning towards going ahead with this. I hate spending nearly $1,200 of my S-Type Maintenance Fund right now, but I look at it from the standpoint that I won this money (and significantly more) in court as part of my Diminished Value lawsuit, and this is exactly what it is for. I just didn't expect to have to spend such a significant amount to fix this A/C issue. But I've got to get the car back on the road. It does no good sitting in the driveway because my wife refuses to drive it if it makes her perspire through her business attire. Again, I can't blame her....

 

Jon,

Are they using a NEW OEM Jag compressor and receiver/dryer for this Job at that quoted price? 1200-452.88 (their quoted labor costs) = 747.12 for parts, which we have spec'd at around 300 for lincoln sourced, or 480 for Jaguar reman. And that's with both retailers making a profit, not the wholesale prices they get stuff for. I mean I'm all for people making a dollar, but a 50% markup or more on parts is kind of nuts. I'm even surprised at the labor rate, which is equal if not higher than the northeast considering the cost of living in the Carolinas relative to here.

Two things here. First, did you explain that Lincoln LS parts are the same and would they be willing to source them for that car? Second, have you considered approaching another shop - maybe even the body shop that fixed the car, about doing the job with your parts?

I know you want the car done yesterday... And the idea that if it's not that, it's their problem is appealing, but it still may pay significantly to shop around.

George

 

Their quote to me is for new OEM parts. I plan to discuss the Lincoln LS parts possibilities with them this morning, but I'm going to do it in person, at the shop, with the manager. Face-to-face may make a difference in me trying to convince them to work with me in reducing the cost of these repairs....

I appreciate your kind assistance in this endeavor, George, but your viewpoint is hopelessly skewed due to your brother's shop and all of the advantages it provides to you. No reputable A/C shop that I've encountered here in the Raleigh area is going to allow me to bring my own parts in. And no, I'm not going to allow the body shop to do this repair. Hell, they still haven't even called me back to arrange to take the car to the local Jaguar dealership since they believe that they have done all they can do in this situation and are ready to turn it over to Jaguar. But since the fault is not in the condenser (the one A/C component that was replaced as a result of last year's accident), their warranty is not going to cover this new repair. I already know that, so there's no sense allowing the body shop to take the car to Jaguar since Jaguar will charge me nearly $2,000 for this repair. And the dealership only provides a 1-year warranty. So that's a no-brainer decision right there....


I can't keep delaying the inevitable. The damn A/C system must be repaired so my wife will get back in the car. I can't do it myself. I've found a reputable shop that has diagnosed it as a faulty compressor. The manager has told me that if it turns out to be something other than the compressor that is causing the problem, his crew will continue to diagnose the issue and then fix it at no additional charge to me. This shop is $700 less expensive than the dealership and their warranty is twice as long. I have the money won in my court case specifically for repairs such as this. It's time to pull the trigger. As I said, I'll try to convince them to order Lincoln LS parts, but my hunch is that their company policy will not allow this if no proven cross-references exist (and I'll be surprised if they do - I called Four Seasons yesterday to verify the compressor that rockauto.com's website cross-references for both the S-Type and the LS, and even Four Seasons' own technical support guy told me "we don't sell a compressor for your car"). I'll let you know if my appeal for Lincoln LS parts works. It's worth a face-to-face shot, but I think that company policy will shoot it down....

Again, thanks for all of your help on this pain-in-the-*** problem. If I lived in New Jersey, I'd order the Lincoln LS parts from rockauto.com and bring the car to your brother's shop and pay him a fair labor rate. I'm sure you'd grease the skids for me and he would do a great job. Unfortunately, geography and time limitations prevail....

Gotta run - I need to get this show on the road....

 

I completely understand. Let me know how it works out.

And oh if you were close, me and you would be doing it in the shop after hours, for the price of beer and pizza. I still own half that shop theoretically because it was my fathers... Even though I don't take an active role in it because I have my own career.

George

 

George,

The shop manager readily agreed to order Lincoln LS parts once he had his supplier do the cross-reference check to ensure they were indeed the same for the S-Type. But with my luck lately, there's always a "gotcha" - the supplier's price for the Lincoln LS compressor is $20 higher! I laughed out loud right there in the lobby, scaring several customers and causing them to slowly move away from me. Even the shop manager was left shaking his head about the parts situation....

The entire automotive parts business is such a racket. I'm all for profit margins but this is nuts. Nevertheless, new parts are now ordered and they should be in by 8:00 am tomorrow. I'll remove the undertray and take the car in this evening so they can get started first thing in the morning. If all goes as planned, the A/C should be arctic again by lunchtime tomorrow. We'll see....

 

Jon,

Wow... That's well NUTS.

See the thing is, it is what it is, and most people don't have the knowledge, or resources to really question it. Some jobs completely amaze me as far as book times. And parts markups.

I'll give you an example.

Last Sat, my brother was swamped. So I went in to help. Had an 04 BMW 325i that had a dead fuel pump. Now on those cars, the fuel pump us under the rear seat. He's like can you bang it out for me?

So pop out rear seat, 4 8mm nuts for the cover. Unclip wiring harness, remove clamp and fuel line. Take screwdriver and hammer and twist off retaining nut (it's about 6" in diameter). I actually took the shop vac and vaccumed all the crap under the seat just so it wouldn't fall into the tank too.

Then pull the pump, drop in the new one, reconnect fuel line and harness, then tap on retaining nut. Bolt the cover back down, and fire up the car. Then snap the back seat in.

Total time was MAYBE 1/2 hr being generous. So then he went to write up the bill. Mitchell booked the job at 2.8 hours, and .8 diag time. So the customer got charged for 3.6 hrs. I was like wow... And I know that's probably a bit of an extreme example.

Then he had a wheel speed sensor on a Chrysler Pacifica. Total time was 10 mins. Unbolt the sensor from the hub, pull the harness out of the bracket where it sat with a grommet, and disconnect the wiring harness. Put a little lube on the sensor (came with the sensor) replace, reconnect. done. Probably took longer to get the car up in the air and back down. Once again, booked for 1.8 hrs. Oh and that sensor was $31 our cost, $82 to the customer. - Alot of the parts warehouses give you an invoice that has cost and "list" and a lot of the shops just go with the "list" price.

George

 

I think your examples are very typical. Most of the cars in ANY repair shop don't spend nearly the amount of time being diagnosed and repaired that the customer gets charged for. It's not illegal, but I think it is very unfair. Shops post hourly rates, but they don't go by them. They charge what the book tells them to, and it is always heavily padded. That's one of several reasons why I decided to learn to do routine maintenance on my own vehicle back in the late 1970s - I knew I could save substantial money that way. I've never enjoyed working on cars, but my Masters in Economics causes me to continue to do it. And the more I've learned to do, the more I've realized that every time I have to take a car in to be repaired for something that I cannot do, I am seriously overpaying for it....

By the way, earlier this afternoon I removed the undertray to get the car ready to go for the compressor and receiver/dryer replacement. While I had it up on the ramps, I decided to get my stethoscope out and listen to the compressor. I have to admit that while it sounds silent to my ears even when lying on my back underneath it with the engine running and the A/C on full blast, when I put the stethoscope to it, it sounded like a cement mixer full of gravel. I think they got it right at the shop when they declared it in the early stages of failure. Tomorrow will tell the tale....

 

Jon, I've actually seen some, albeit not many jobs that take more time. I.e. the S-type oil pan gasket books at 3.8 hrs. From reading Rick's description it seems fairly close. If not longer, especially to a shop that hasn't done a lot of them. R&R on spark plugs for the 3.0 S-type is 2.1 hrs, including removing the manifold. Now if you could talk a mechanic into doing the IMT O-Rings at the same time that's a good deal.

See the whole "book hours" deal, (dare I say scam), was a way to standardize the industry. It rewards good techs, I know guys booking 80+ hours in a 40 hour work week, and protects the customer from incompetent hacks. (at least as far as overcharging). Now, supposedly these are the industry acceptable times for an "average" tech to do the job. I highly doubt that 80% of the techs out there are "above average" Where the shops get into trouble is intermittent problems, and / or electrical nightmares. Like you have X module bad, which is right under the dash, and calls for .8 to replace, but you spend 3 hrs chasing the problem to x module.

I agree that DIY on a car is the total way to go, and I wouldn't own used Jaguars if I didn't have that mentality. My DCCV alone called for 2.8 hrs labor. Add that to .5 diag time, and a 365 list part price, and coolant and what have you, and that would have cost me $650 out the door if not more. When you can spend $120 (including coolant) at rock auto for the motorcraft valve.

Other things like oil changes, I would take somewhere because the $30 for the change isn't worth the mess and dealing with the used oil. Window tint, I got done by a pro, cost me $100 - which is what he charges my brother, and my brother resells to customers for $150 or so.

I was about to tell you about the $600 two piece lugnut swap but I saw that you already saw it.

AS far as the compressor, I still don't know if it's 100% viable that a compressor could get weaker, but still work, but if it sounds like that who knows. Could have a bearing causing drag on the input shaft, causing it to not spin properly.

George
George