Ok

Continuing my blank navigation screen, no climate control, 51/50 C1 saga.

Based on research here, I have asked my dealer, who diagnosed my "bad module" condition, to attempt to apply any software/firmware updates for the navigation module to said unit. His response has been that because the nav module is failing to communicate, that such an effort is either wasted or not possible, and that I must purchase a new navigation module.

Personally, I would like to go down the software path first - at least try. Others here have seemed to be successful in doing so, and the Techinical Bulletin located here, Service Action S524 or S419-S524 seems to indicate the first step in any NCM drop outs is to verify the navigation software. Then goes on to deliver software update disc JTP 1072_1 (V8.60), so I gotta think this is at least worth a shot on my '03 S Type R (the bulletin lists 05-06, not sure if this matters)

What can I do to help a reluctant dealer to pursue this option first? Is there a different bulletin, software update file I should mention?

As always, any help appreciated...

 

Have you tried the various parts of TSB S419-14 (see forum stickies)?

What occurred?

I think the dealer means they get no comms with their OBD tool (likely IDS). My guess is that the NCM (Nav CM) when corrupted needs to get its firmware from the software disk (non-map disk) and unless it has good firmware cannot communicate with the buses in the car and so IDS cannot communicate with the NCM. I think you need to force a reload of the firmware or have an NCM which is unable to reload (fault somewhere, could be dead NCM, dead DVD drive etc) or unable to communicate (could be all manner of things).

 

It doesn't take that long to update the nav software. I'd try and get them to do that first. I guess they'll need the jag tech tool or something to do this since they can't use the Navigation unit's On-screen diagnostics menu to initiate the S/W update. I checked mine and I am running nav S/W ver: 8.00.0 03/11/28. Is that 8.60 disk available for download or something? I'd love to update mine as well.

 

As the OP said they have no comms so cannot update using the jag tech tool (IDS).
(I think they always need to use the firmware disk, but that's not important here.)

 

Ok guys

For JagV8:
At lunch I tried S419-14. The phone+menu had no effect - never got to the place to put in the 917 code to find version or any other info.

Went on to pafe 3 of S419-15V2, and was able to successfully enter the Display Inspection Menu, through the hard key combo. In the DIAG section I saw my 51/50, all other sections, HARD SW, SOFT SW, and COLOR BAR all tested well. There was a VER soft key section, so I hit it to see what it would do. It came back with Version 2.5........

If I understand you correctly JagV8, even given what appears to be the car's inability to communicate with the Nav Module, it is still worth updating the firmware in the nav box via the disc, as if the software in the box is corrupted, it would be unable to communicate (which is what all the diagnostic tools are telling me) with the systems in the car? So, yes, the problem is root caused to the Navigation Module, however, potentially corrupted firmware inside the box may be what is causing the communication issues - the hardware is fine, just needs to get its software straight.....yes?

 

Oh-

One other thing for those following this thread....can someone confirm how many wire harnesses plug into the back of the DVD player in the trunk?

In chasing this issue, I pulled all the bits, took them to work, and opened them up to see if there were any obvious failures I could possibly repair. Finding none, I put them all back together and reinstalled to the trunk. When I put the DVD/Navi module back in, I had one open connection spot, and I looked all over for a portion of harness that may have been displaced, but found none. What I plugged into the back of the DVD/Navi module were (2) wire harness multipin connectors (a small one and a big one), the power connector, and what looked like an ether net cable. Where the two multipin connectors went in, there seemed to be a location for a third, which I did not have/could not find......in my recollection there were only the two, but some time had passed between removal and reinstall.

So, if someone has these bits on a bench, or access to a TIS exploded view that shows the connections, I would much appreciate it....

 

I don't know exactly how it all works! Just have some clues and ideas.

It seems there's firmware and comms of one or more types with the NCM and there's something going on with the touchscreen. It seems you need to get the firmware reloaded from a disk (DVD) placed in the satnav's drive.

There are TSBs, posts on this site and elsewhere about persuading the drive/etc to read the firmware. They have to be worth a try.

I'm not sure what year/engine/etc car you have - it would help if you put details in your signature.

If you have an ELM327 I may be able to get you some commands to try but I reckon they'll also not work just as the dealer tool doesn't.

I'm not sure which VER exactly you mean but below I've put my notes about what my touch screen did when I messed with it (over a year ago - scrappy notes and it's WAY too cold here to mess now).

I've used "_" to try to show sub-menus (this site takes out tabs & spaces) and "..." for omitted stuff.

Nav Part No 2R83-10E887-AD
Disp Part No 2R83-10E889-BG
BOOT 0035? 16Mb 10+ 0132 DVD 1.10
S/W Ver 7.61 0 03/05/14
Map Ver EU V00.01.11
SUB-SYSTEM INFORMATION
___XCL
___ReleaseV195
___2003/05/12
___etc
VEHICLE/GYRO SIGNALS
___...
___Distance Calib. (mm) 189.2
___...
___Voltage (mV) 2523
___Relative Bearing 0.0
___Gyro Sense 1.337
GPS INFORMATION
___ID Elv/Azm St Lev ID Elv/Azm St Lev
___13 69/189 P 25 2 27/307 - 0
___23 67/079 P 17 17 14/222 - 0
___ 4 63/265 P 24 32 10/091 - 0
___20 36/097 - 0 7 11/163 - 0
___Date(GMT) 05/02/10 15:29
___Latitude Longitude Meas.St 2D
___N53 47.4 W 1 40.3 H-Dop 3.9
POSITIONAL INFORMATION
___Dist./Pulse (mm) ----
___ [Average] (mm) 0
___Gain Coeff. 1.337
___M.M.Rate (%) 1
___Gyro Offset (mV) 24
___GPS Rx Rate 2D 000683BE
___ 3D 005D7149
___ Total 006B3ADE
SYSTEM OPTIONS
___Audio Options System/Vehicle
___* CDC MDC JP-S/W Daimler
___* PHONE VEMS
___* DSP REAR A/C Fr A/C Rr
___ VOICE TV Smog
___ TAPE MD * CD 400 350 * 202
VERSION
___DISPLAY SOFT 3.40
___...
SIGNAL INPUT INFORMATION
___Navigation Signals TV Signals
___D2B Wakeup HIGH
___D2B Error OK TV Tuner
___PTA LOW Not Fitted
___Switch+Display Signals
___PWM LOW
___PTA LOW
MESSAGING CHECK
___(lots, what do they do?)
DIAGNOSTIC ERROR CODES
___[01] 30-C1 28/08/08 19:23
___[02] 58-03 24/04/05 08:28
SELF CHECK (no errors)

 

anyone have the update ISO?

 

Anyone following this thread (or any of the other blank navi screen threads):

On friday, I had the operating system of the DVD/navigation player in my car updated, and the software update was absolutely successful.

It took (2) efforts in chatting with the dealer to convince them the process of inserting a DVD into the player was a reasonable option prior to replacing hardware.

Based on JagV8's feedback and my understanding of the way the system works and armed with TSB's printed from this site, I was able to help the dealer decide it was worth a shot to pursue the "hard install" on the software side.

In my experience, the dealer was reluctant because his diagnostic tools were telling them that the Navigation Module was dead - not communicating with the systems in the car. This was true - every diagnostic test was correct. However, that was where the diagnostic effort stopped, with a solution of replacing hardware (the navigation control module).

The bigger question was, why isn't the Navi Module communicating? To which there are two possible answers #1) The hardware had some time of failure - this would be bad news to us or #2) The operating system of the DVD/Navi had become corrupted, and therefore the unit was unable to communicate with the car or with the dealer diagnostic tools - which ultimatley was root cause in my case.

Fortunately, the solution to #2 is updating the DVD/Navi module from a software disc inserted into the player. You will note that the TSB's around this issue (grab the ones detailing Telematic/Telematics issues as well) indicate that the dealer should attempt to update the software before replacing any hardware - the key here is that they must do it from the disc not using any of the network tools they may have available - no "plugging" some type of tool into the car. The server (the DVD unit) is down, so attempting to communicate with it via the network is futile. It needs to be brought back up using a hard install of new operating system software from the disc.

Kind Regards

 

And I bet that they can NOW talk to it using their diagnostic kit (IDS/WDS/etc).

Dealers. I wish they knew more e.g. took more note of their training courses and the TSBs.

I'm pleased it's working! Well done for persuading them to give it a try.

 

Awesome! I'm glad the update worked for you!!

I put in a 2009-2010 Navigation DVD and it automatically updated the firmware of my Nav unit, my Climate control, and radio. Those DVDs do more than just affect the navigation! My crazy audio dropouts have been fixed since I put the 2009/2010 DVD in.

 

What number/letter is the most recent DVD?

 

I think that the latest version is "BJ".

 

Yep, 1X43-10E898-BJ

 

Where is the cheapest place to buy the new disc, anything cheaper than directly from Navteq?

 

Anyone who's worked with any sort of electronics involving a processor, software and firmware SHOULD see this as rather obvious. Unfortunately if your dealer doesn't really grasp/understand these basic concepts and is just working by following instructions by route then this is what can happen. I'm sure BRUTAL would have had you fixed up in a nano second. Fortunately your bright enough to have figured this out for yourself. End consumers buy and deal with so many products today that involve firmware I'm surprised your dealer was mystified. So congratulations! It doesn't speak very well of your dealership though. Unfortunately this is not all that uncommon in this industry. It can be hard and expensive to find the good ones out there.

Bob S.

 

Sadly the dealer wasn't even "following instructions by route" (LOL), as the TSBs say to reload the firmware. Just a(nother) rubbish dealer

 

Cut to chase ... Stupid dealership. Though it is hard to believe any dealership is quite this stupid.

 

Sooo true.

They "plug in the whizz computer thingy (IDS) and it says can't communicate, so the module needs replacing" even though that's plain wrong.

And "gearbox fault" similarly means "replace gearbox", no matter the cost.

Could be very profitable

 

Yep, and in this still-pathetic economy it's business practices like this that will eventually drive your clientele away. When dealers refuse to properly diagnose and repair and instead rely on "just replace it regardless of cost to the client", they deserve to lose customers to the old-fashioned independents who still believe in diagnosis and repair....