Cross Country in the '03 STR
#21
04-11-2012, 07:09 AM
Veteran Member
They make non-cat shocks, all four are available for about $450, while a significant improvement (or so I've heard) it comes at a high price...It'll probably be $400-$600 to install them...If you want new springs the labor won't increase at all but you'll need to add another $350 to the parts bill...So you're at a $1200-$1400 investment for a car that may be difficult to sell for $10K...
#22
04-11-2012, 08:03 AM
Veteran Member
Rebuilding on the road?
That's quite an advertisement for not taking the car on any long trips.
Sorry you missed out on the under the supercharger coolant hose repair on the same trip. You know, I think were cheated a bit of having the full experience
How many miles were on your car when all of this happened?
Sorry you missed out on the under the supercharger coolant hose repair on the same trip. You know, I think were cheated a bit of having the full experience
How many miles were on your car when all of this happened?
I learned my lesson on this one. I travelled from Washington,
across the Trans-Canada highway, down thru Minnesota, then
to Georgia and the Carolinas.
Before I left, I was tempted to change the DCCV, since I was
draining and replacing the anti-freeze. I didn't: Remember, it's
not if, but when that damnable valve will fail. And fail it did, in
South Carolina. When it does, the system goes to full hot...just
what you need when you're driving across the Arizona desert.
And yes, when it fails it will probably take the climate control
valve with it. The DCCV is a first class bitch to change in the
comfort of your own home. Not to worry; any Jaguar dealer
will be pleased to relieve you of approximately $900 dollars to
replace it. And this is after you're probably driven 5 or 6 hundred
in sauna conditions to reach the dealer.
But wait, there's more! Now the dealer wants $1,400 dollars to
replace the CCM. Replacing the DCCV will not control the sauna
conditions in the vehicle if the CCM is fried. So now you get to
remove the glove compartment, pull the CCM, and ship it off to
that guy in Brea, CA. Hey, at least that's in the direction you're
going. That is, if you would rather pay $350 vs $1,400.
Ah yes, zooming across the Southwest desert with the air-conditioning
on, all the windows and the sunroof open and sweating like a
pig is great fun..all because you didn't change a $150 dollar part
before you left.
Finally, change the 2 piece lugnuts. Stop at a Toyota dealer and
purchase 20 one piece lugs. Take one of yours in to the
dealership to match them up. The Toyota's are slightly larger
than the stock Jaguar's. Next, ya go to Harbor Freight and purchase
a nice torque wrench (on sale for $9.95) and a socket for the new
lug nuts. The wrench comes in a plastic container which will
fit easily in the spare tire compartment.
Trying to change a spare on a clear, cold, dark night in the Arizona
desert requiring the removal of the Jag 2 piece lugs with the factory
lug wrench will require every swear word in you vocabulary. However,
not to worry..you know the broken DCCV is keeping the vehicle nice
and toasty on the inside, and, you'll be kept company by numerous
rattle snakes trying to befriend you and find a warm place to sleep.
Have a nice trip.
Cliff
across the Trans-Canada highway, down thru Minnesota, then
to Georgia and the Carolinas.
Before I left, I was tempted to change the DCCV, since I was
draining and replacing the anti-freeze. I didn't: Remember, it's
not if, but when that damnable valve will fail. And fail it did, in
South Carolina. When it does, the system goes to full hot...just
what you need when you're driving across the Arizona desert.
And yes, when it fails it will probably take the climate control
valve with it. The DCCV is a first class bitch to change in the
comfort of your own home. Not to worry; any Jaguar dealer
will be pleased to relieve you of approximately $900 dollars to
replace it. And this is after you're probably driven 5 or 6 hundred
in sauna conditions to reach the dealer.
But wait, there's more! Now the dealer wants $1,400 dollars to
replace the CCM. Replacing the DCCV will not control the sauna
conditions in the vehicle if the CCM is fried. So now you get to
remove the glove compartment, pull the CCM, and ship it off to
that guy in Brea, CA. Hey, at least that's in the direction you're
going. That is, if you would rather pay $350 vs $1,400.
Ah yes, zooming across the Southwest desert with the air-conditioning
on, all the windows and the sunroof open and sweating like a
pig is great fun..all because you didn't change a $150 dollar part
before you left.
Finally, change the 2 piece lugnuts. Stop at a Toyota dealer and
purchase 20 one piece lugs. Take one of yours in to the
dealership to match them up. The Toyota's are slightly larger
than the stock Jaguar's. Next, ya go to Harbor Freight and purchase
a nice torque wrench (on sale for $9.95) and a socket for the new
lug nuts. The wrench comes in a plastic container which will
fit easily in the spare tire compartment.
Trying to change a spare on a clear, cold, dark night in the Arizona
desert requiring the removal of the Jag 2 piece lugs with the factory
lug wrench will require every swear word in you vocabulary. However,
not to worry..you know the broken DCCV is keeping the vehicle nice
and toasty on the inside, and, you'll be kept company by numerous
rattle snakes trying to befriend you and find a warm place to sleep.
Have a nice trip.
Cliff
#23
04-11-2012, 08:14 AM
Veteran Member
Kind of curious about this, what's considered an improvement when it comes to the shocks?
Mine had 14K when I picked it up and I've never been all that impressed with either the ride or the handling of this car in more extreme conditions such as pushing it hard or when going fast over bumpy surfaces. It feels neither smooth or all that secure. On smooth roads it's OK. The front wheels feel like they wobble around a lot as if the suspension in front washes out under adverse conditions and just can't cope. There's nothing worn or broken on my car either. I just think Jaguar didn't get it right.
So do these shocks remedy that?
Mine had 14K when I picked it up and I've never been all that impressed with either the ride or the handling of this car in more extreme conditions such as pushing it hard or when going fast over bumpy surfaces. It feels neither smooth or all that secure. On smooth roads it's OK. The front wheels feel like they wobble around a lot as if the suspension in front washes out under adverse conditions and just can't cope. There's nothing worn or broken on my car either. I just think Jaguar didn't get it right.
So do these shocks remedy that?
They make non-cat shocks, all four are available for about $450, while a significant improvement (or so I've heard) it comes at a high price...It'll probably be $400-$600 to install them...If you want new springs the labor won't increase at all but you'll need to add another $350 to the parts bill...So you're at a $1200-$1400 investment for a car that may be difficult to sell for $10K...
#24
04-11-2012, 08:35 AM
Veteran Member
Kind of curious about this, what's considered an improvement when it comes to the shocks?
Mine had 14K when I picked it up and I've never been all that impressed with either the ride or the handling of this car in more extreme conditions such as pushing it hard or when going fast over bumpy surfaces. It feels neither smooth or all that secure. On smooth roads it's OK. The front wheels feel like they wobble around a lot as if the suspension in front washes out under adverse conditions and just can't cope. There's nothing worn or broken on my car either. I just think Jaguar didn't get it right.
So do these shocks remedy that?
Mine had 14K when I picked it up and I've never been all that impressed with either the ride or the handling of this car in more extreme conditions such as pushing it hard or when going fast over bumpy surfaces. It feels neither smooth or all that secure. On smooth roads it's OK. The front wheels feel like they wobble around a lot as if the suspension in front washes out under adverse conditions and just can't cope. There's nothing worn or broken on my car either. I just think Jaguar didn't get it right.
So do these shocks remedy that?
A question I've asked which no one has answered...Has anyone noticed a better 60' during launches after upgrading the suspension?
#25
04-11-2012, 09:24 AM
Veteran Member
#26
04-11-2012, 09:27 AM
Veteran Member
Mine had 14K when I picked it up and I've never been all that impressed with either the ride or the handling of this car in more extreme conditions such as pushing it hard or when going fast over bumpy surfaces. It feels neither smooth or all that secure. On smooth roads it's OK. The front wheels feel like they wobble around a lot as if the suspension in front washes out under adverse conditions and just can't cope. There's nothing worn or broken on my car either.
What you describe doesn't sound right.
Could be, though there looks to be a lack of evidence let alone others saying so.
Suspension & handling are both complex and subjective it seems.
#27
04-11-2012, 09:50 AM
Veteran Member
#28
04-11-2012, 10:42 AM
Veteran member
Kind of curious about this, what's considered an improvement when it comes to the shocks?
Mine had 14K when I picked it up and I've never been all that impressed with either the ride or the handling of this car in more extreme conditions such as pushing it hard or when going fast over bumpy surfaces. It feels neither smooth or all that secure. On smooth roads it's OK. The front wheels feel like they wobble around a lot as if the suspension in front washes out under adverse conditions and just can't cope. There's nothing worn or broken on my car either. I just think Jaguar didn't get it right.
So do these shocks remedy that?
Mine had 14K when I picked it up and I've never been all that impressed with either the ride or the handling of this car in more extreme conditions such as pushing it hard or when going fast over bumpy surfaces. It feels neither smooth or all that secure. On smooth roads it's OK. The front wheels feel like they wobble around a lot as if the suspension in front washes out under adverse conditions and just can't cope. There's nothing worn or broken on my car either. I just think Jaguar didn't get it right.
So do these shocks remedy that?
#29
04-12-2012, 11:28 AM
Veteran Member
I'll try to answer all of these in one shot.
The car had 14K miles when I got it and now has 28K miles. It got an alignment shortly after I bought it and yes with all of the latest alignment specs. I brought them with me. It still drives now as it did after that alignment. I had the alignment shop go over the car at the time so in the improbable event that something was broken with the suspension they should have found it. They guys do a lot of race cars too. They know their stuff.
But I can take it back in again it's been a while now so maybe it's a good idea anyway.
Anytime you change the nature of suspension pieces you're involved in suspension tuning.
When I said Jaguar just didn't get it right I didn't mean the car is horrible. It's very nice on smooth roads when driven like a gentleman. That's the idea behind the standard version of this car and when they made their changes for the "R" version I suspect they didn't reach world class levels like a M series BMW. It just doesn't have the same dialed in sporty feel. The reviews at that time said as much.
I do wonder if a strut tower brace in the front would help but I don't get the impression that's the problem.
But I can take it back in again it's been a while now so maybe it's a good idea anyway.
Anytime you change the nature of suspension pieces you're involved in suspension tuning.
When I said Jaguar just didn't get it right I didn't mean the car is horrible. It's very nice on smooth roads when driven like a gentleman. That's the idea behind the standard version of this car and when they made their changes for the "R" version I suspect they didn't reach world class levels like a M series BMW. It just doesn't have the same dialed in sporty feel. The reviews at that time said as much.
I do wonder if a strut tower brace in the front would help but I don't get the impression that's the problem.
#30
04-12-2012, 12:03 PM
Veteran Member
#31
04-12-2012, 12:10 PM
Veteran Member
Car & Driver, Road & Track and probably Automobile magazines.
I looked at all of them I can't remember which issues though.
That was the consensus opinion at the time. I knew that when I decided to get one used.
I'm just a bit surprised at how the front end end seems to go all wobbly on really bumpy roads when pushed hard. When I go in for another alignment I'll talk with them and see if they have any ideas. Maybe a bit more toe-in would help though I would think it has more to do with a bit more compliance with the bushings in front and so the geometry changes too easily? Just a guess.
I looked at all of them I can't remember which issues though.
That was the consensus opinion at the time. I knew that when I decided to get one used.
I'm just a bit surprised at how the front end end seems to go all wobbly on really bumpy roads when pushed hard. When I go in for another alignment I'll talk with them and see if they have any ideas. Maybe a bit more toe-in would help though I would think it has more to do with a bit more compliance with the bushings in front and so the geometry changes too easily? Just a guess.
#32
04-12-2012, 02:03 PM
Veteran Member
#33
04-12-2012, 02:14 PM
Veteran Member
The car had 14K miles when I got it and now has 28K miles. It got an alignment shortly after I bought it and yes with all of the latest alignment specs. I brought them with me. It still drives now as it did after that alignment. I had the alignment shop go over the car at the time so in the improbable event that something was broken with the suspension they should have found it. They guys do a lot of race cars too. They know their stuff.
But I can take it back in again it's been a while now so maybe it's a good idea anyway.
Anytime you change the nature of suspension pieces you're involved in suspension tuning.
When I said Jaguar just didn't get it right I didn't mean the car is horrible. It's very nice on smooth roads when driven like a gentleman. That's the idea behind the standard version of this car and when they made their changes for the "R" version I suspect they didn't reach world class levels like a M series BMW. It just doesn't have the same dialed in sporty feel. The reviews at that time said as much.
I do wonder if a strut tower brace in the front would help but I don't get the impression that's the problem.
But I can take it back in again it's been a while now so maybe it's a good idea anyway.
Anytime you change the nature of suspension pieces you're involved in suspension tuning.
When I said Jaguar just didn't get it right I didn't mean the car is horrible. It's very nice on smooth roads when driven like a gentleman. That's the idea behind the standard version of this car and when they made their changes for the "R" version I suspect they didn't reach world class levels like a M series BMW. It just doesn't have the same dialed in sporty feel. The reviews at that time said as much.
I do wonder if a strut tower brace in the front would help but I don't get the impression that's the problem.
Found this article and a snipet is: "They [The Jag production team] most emphatically did not set out, they will tell you, to create a head-on challenger to the BMW M5.
We'd say the development team hit its target. The S-type R eschews the gunfighter reflexes of a hard-edged supersedan such as the M5 in favor of a smoother ride, elevated elegance, and a more laid-back approach to fast touring."
"The Jag's handling is similarly constrained, but here the distinction is more subtle. Although tuned for supple ride quality, the S-type R hasn't entirely abandoned the art of transient response. It surprised us with the best lane-change time, despite developing the least grip on the skidpad, and it was willing--if not always able--to keep up on serpentine byways. Braking was also respectable, on a par with all but the BMW at the test track, although there were reports of mild fade on mountain roads."
2003 Audi RS 6 vs. BMW M5, Jaguar S-type R, M-B E55 AMG Comparison Tests - Page 2 - Car and Driver
Suspension parts wear and we also have really cheap suspension bushings; we do not have an upgrade bushing replacement...As far as handling goes, you need to first determine what you want to excel in, the street, autoX or road racing...Then you can't forget about tires as they are extremely important along with specific tire inflation...
Last edited by Bacardi 151; 04-12-2012 at 02:27 PM.
#34
04-12-2012, 02:32 PM
Veteran Member
What's this ???? A legal American citizen crossing a border (either Aridzony or Nevader) and coming into SoCal ??? 
Oh myohmyohmyohmy what is going on ???
Welcome to bright sunshiny SoCal, San Diego is a great place in which to live. If you have kids, you'll get to know...Sea World, San Diego Zoo, Wild Animal Park and Dizzyland. Take lots of money...and many other good places to visit..
Oh myohmyohmyohmy what is going on ???
Welcome to bright sunshiny SoCal, San Diego is a great place in which to live. If you have kids, you'll get to know...Sea World, San Diego Zoo, Wild Animal Park and Dizzyland. Take lots of money...and many other good places to visit..
#35
04-13-2012, 04:55 AM
Veteran Member
Well I have zero experience with modifying the suspension on this car but on several of my others that do go to the track and have strut type design it does make a difference.
I've driven lots of high end GT cars that were not designed as "hard edged" sports cars but the front wheels don't flop about under pressure like they do on my STR.
Yes I was aware of all the articles and that's actual what I was looking for. That being said, I think they missed the mark on steering feel and that god awful transmission. If you drive like a manual it's a lot better but it just kills your gas mileage. My 90 Q45 had far superior feeling drive train than this car does. That tranny seemed to know what I intended when I was driving it. This one is schizophrenic at best.
The lack of a limited slip diff and using a cockamamie system involving the rear calipers as a substitute makes me feel like I'm driving a buck board wagon when I try to take off briskly. I haven't done a whole lot of experimenting with leaving the traction control turned off as I mostly drive around town. If you drive it gently and slowly it's fine. But try to get going in a hurry and it loses it's composure quite easily.
I've driven lots of high end GT cars that were not designed as "hard edged" sports cars but the front wheels don't flop about under pressure like they do on my STR.
Yes I was aware of all the articles and that's actual what I was looking for. That being said, I think they missed the mark on steering feel and that god awful transmission. If you drive like a manual it's a lot better but it just kills your gas mileage. My 90 Q45 had far superior feeling drive train than this car does. That tranny seemed to know what I intended when I was driving it. This one is schizophrenic at best.
The lack of a limited slip diff and using a cockamamie system involving the rear calipers as a substitute makes me feel like I'm driving a buck board wagon when I try to take off briskly. I haven't done a whole lot of experimenting with leaving the traction control turned off as I mostly drive around town. If you drive it gently and slowly it's fine. But try to get going in a hurry and it loses it's composure quite easily.
If an upper strut tower exists, they're near pointless unless you can get the lower strut/tie bar as well...
Found this article and a snipet is: "They [The Jag production team] most emphatically did not set out, they will tell you, to create a head-on challenger to the BMW M5.
We'd say the development team hit its target. The S-type R eschews the gunfighter reflexes of a hard-edged supersedan such as the M5 in favor of a smoother ride, elevated elegance, and a more laid-back approach to fast touring."
"The Jag's handling is similarly constrained, but here the distinction is more subtle. Although tuned for supple ride quality, the S-type R hasn't entirely abandoned the art of transient response. It surprised us with the best lane-change time, despite developing the least grip on the skidpad, and it was willing--if not always able--to keep up on serpentine byways. Braking was also respectable, on a par with all but the BMW at the test track, although there were reports of mild fade on mountain roads."
2003 Audi RS 6 vs. BMW M5, Jaguar S-type R, M-B E55 AMG Comparison Tests - Page 2 - Car and Driver
Suspension parts wear and we also have really cheap suspension bushings; we do not have an upgrade bushing replacement...As far as handling goes, you need to first determine what you want to excel in, the street, autoX or road racing...Then you can't forget about tires as they are extremely important along with specific tire inflation...
Found this article and a snipet is: "They [The Jag production team] most emphatically did not set out, they will tell you, to create a head-on challenger to the BMW M5.
We'd say the development team hit its target. The S-type R eschews the gunfighter reflexes of a hard-edged supersedan such as the M5 in favor of a smoother ride, elevated elegance, and a more laid-back approach to fast touring."
"The Jag's handling is similarly constrained, but here the distinction is more subtle. Although tuned for supple ride quality, the S-type R hasn't entirely abandoned the art of transient response. It surprised us with the best lane-change time, despite developing the least grip on the skidpad, and it was willing--if not always able--to keep up on serpentine byways. Braking was also respectable, on a par with all but the BMW at the test track, although there were reports of mild fade on mountain roads."
2003 Audi RS 6 vs. BMW M5, Jaguar S-type R, M-B E55 AMG Comparison Tests - Page 2 - Car and Driver
Suspension parts wear and we also have really cheap suspension bushings; we do not have an upgrade bushing replacement...As far as handling goes, you need to first determine what you want to excel in, the street, autoX or road racing...Then you can't forget about tires as they are extremely important along with specific tire inflation...
#36
04-13-2012, 05:01 AM
Veteran Member
A while back I drove a M6 6-speed convertible and my car back to back. Yes the M6 is a hell of a lot more expensive but it quickly highlighted what I'm talking about. I think the M5 would have as well. The M6 didn't seem like it was hard edged at all, just precise. There's no room in that car though!
#37
04-13-2012, 05:13 AM
Veteran Member
#38
04-13-2012, 07:16 AM
Veteran Member
Well I have zero experience with modifying the suspension on this car but on several of my others that do go to the track and have strut type design it does make a difference.
I've driven lots of high end GT cars that were not designed as "hard edged" sports cars but the front wheels don't flop about under pressure like they do on my STR.
Yes I was aware of all the articles and that's actual what I was looking for. That being said, I think they missed the mark on steering feel and that god awful transmission. If you drive like a manual it's a lot better but it just kills your gas mileage. My 90 Q45 had far superior feeling drive train than this car does. That tranny seemed to know what I intended when I was driving it. This one is schizophrenic at best.
The lack of a limited slip diff and using a cockamamie system involving the rear calipers as a substitute makes me feel like I'm driving a buck board wagon when I try to take off briskly. I haven't done a whole lot of experimenting with leaving the traction control turned off as I mostly drive around town. If you drive it gently and slowly it's fine. But try to get going in a hurry and it loses it's composure quite easily.
I've driven lots of high end GT cars that were not designed as "hard edged" sports cars but the front wheels don't flop about under pressure like they do on my STR.
Yes I was aware of all the articles and that's actual what I was looking for. That being said, I think they missed the mark on steering feel and that god awful transmission. If you drive like a manual it's a lot better but it just kills your gas mileage. My 90 Q45 had far superior feeling drive train than this car does. That tranny seemed to know what I intended when I was driving it. This one is schizophrenic at best.
The lack of a limited slip diff and using a cockamamie system involving the rear calipers as a substitute makes me feel like I'm driving a buck board wagon when I try to take off briskly. I haven't done a whole lot of experimenting with leaving the traction control turned off as I mostly drive around town. If you drive it gently and slowly it's fine. But try to get going in a hurry and it loses it's composure quite easily.
#39
04-13-2012, 03:32 PM
Veteran Member
#40
04-13-2012, 04:18 PM
Veteran Member