About this time last year, I took the 03 S-Type in for an alignment (shop that Motorcarman uses - so Trevor knows how to properly align an S-type) and Trevor informed me that both outer tie-rod ends were shot. He replaced those and did a 4-wheel alignment, at 134K miles. In June this year, I removed both lower rear control arms and carried them down to Motorcarman, where we spent an afternoon wrestling old bushes out and new bushes in. So back to Trevor's for another alignment due to that maintenance. This was at 141.7k miles. When my daughter rolled in for Christmas break, I set about an oil-change and tire rotation, and noticed the inside edge wear was still progressing, and the outside edges weren't looking terribly keen, either. As I set about tugging and shaking on things, I found play in the upper front ball joints and the front stab bar links.

Motorcarman had a LHS OEM upper control arm for a fair price. Almost ordered a Lemforder RHS from Rock for ~$170 but in the end, opted for a much cheaper, no-name pair from Amazon for $150. I know...nobody needs 3 control arms, right? Especially 2 LEFTS! But I have that other S-Type to maintain for the wifey....and it'll surely need suspension work soon if not already, so thought I'd take the opportunity for a side-by-side quality comparison, so-to-speak. LHS came off per JTIS instructions and I fit the new OEM arm and re-assembled without issue save lots of grunting, farting and under-breath swearing (16 yr old son was helping top-side - to start a nut or two) during shock/strut re-install. (That was a bitter ex-wife - laid plans to attempt RHS without removing shock/strut). I left stab bar link off as replacement parts had not yet arrived.

Upon moving to the RHS, I discovered it was, indeed, not possible to remove the arm without displacing the shock/strut - you just can't get the bolts out past it....almost....but that only counts in horseshoes and ordnance placement. I did manage to remove the arm without totally removing the shock/strut, even though I removed both upper and lower fixings. You may be able to accomplish the feat without removing the lower fixing bolt, but I couldn't/didn't. You have to lower the strut enough to get it out of the cubby it mounts to at the top and out into the fenderwell.

I then discovered my bargain arm from Amazon did not fit. I was facing what the assembly plants refer to as a "no build" condition. Comparing the new arm to the one I'd just removed, I determined one of the bushes in the new arm was not pressed in far enough. Well....I had that new-in-box 20 ton press from a Hazard Fraught mega sale under the worktable. I'd obtained one after the June lower arm bush evolution, seeing the usefulness of such an item. So I set about digging it out and erecting it. Not your ideal Christmas Day erection, but necessary nonetheless.

Once assembled, I experimented on the LHS arm previously removed to see if I could move the bush in the desired direction whilst keeping it square in the hole. Trial was a little off-center. I had no idea whether or not the LHS arm from the Amazon pair would fit as I'd already fitted an OEM to that slot. I decided I'd had enough practice and attacked the non-fitting arm. Pushed the appropriate bush in about 1/16" and it was matching up nicely with the removed part. Attempted to fit it and after a few attempts with it misaligned, it popped right into place!

Now, you oughtn't torque the upper arm bolts until you put the weight of the car back on the wheels. Yet, I still had no stab bar links....so a disincentive to refit the tires and let it down. However, there was a lot of stuff to be removed to get at the arm bolts that I could re-install once they are torqued, whilst awaiting link-delivery. So I let it down, torqued the arm bolts to 47Nm per spec and set about re-fitting the cabin air filter and plenum, cross-car support, cowl cover, wipers, and air box. I could get a socket on the left front and right aft nuts, which allowed use of my torque wrench. Access to the other two was much more limited, so I compensated by grasping the breakaway torque-wrench at the spot corresponding to the length of my combo-wrench and using force similar to what it took to get the click from the torque wrench. I reckon it's within +5/-1 nm of spec!







http://www.harborfreight.com/20-ton-...ess-32879.html

 

Nice work, Zane. And congrats on your "Christmas Day erection". Ho ho ho indeed....

Those can't be the original shocks on that 142,000-mile 2003 S-Type, can they? If so, I'm duly impressed. Kudos to your daughter for keeping the car in decent shape so far away from home base most of the time....

How many miles on your wife's 2005 S-Type?

And why in the world do you have three XJs?

Wayne (cjd777) and I will be replacing the front upper control arm bushings, front shocks, and front shock mount kits in my wife's 2006 XK8 next Monday. We hope Rick (joycesjag) will be able to join us for at least part of the day. The XK8 is pushing 99,000 miles now. We'll have a good look at the ball joints while we're in there. I think they're still okay but we'll see....

 

I don't believe so. I have a faint recollection of having Motorcarman change the fronts 2-3 years ago. However, that was prior to a couple of systems crashes and my conversion to "Car Maintenance Reminder" for Android for maint. tracking. So it would take a bit of research to confirm and fix a date/mileage for the renewal. I know we changed the rears in June @ 141,783 miles when we changed the lower arm bushes. This is burned into ROM because we knacker'd Bob's special Jaguar spring/strut tool on the first one and had to fight it tooth and nail to get it out of the tool. I had to borrow the more dangerous individual compressors from O'Really auto parts to complete the second.

Hahaha...my selective photography skills are paying off! She came home with what was left of a mangled bumper-fascia undertray stuffed in the boot and the entire front fascia flapping up and down like a loin-cloth! As you could surmise on your own, the front 1/4 or so of both front fender inner-liners is MIA. After her phone call a few weeks prior, I expected to have no engine belly-pan...but it was secure and intact save a significant dent and the front three fasteners that hold the back of the bumper undertray on unceremoniously ripped away. The replacement bonnet I fitted in response to her "tapping" the rear end of a "work truck" in the mall parking lot has seen 3/4 of its clear-coat lift off and blow away. Seats and steering wheel are beginning to show a bit of wear....

05=119,125
03=149,000


Similar reason patents are good for 17 yrs, I guess (18 too many, and 16's not enough) Here's the saga: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-x300s-154657/
The 03 S-T was our first Jag and will always have a kind of special place...and both S-Types are sweet cars; but if I'd be honest....I'd be happy with 5 X300's and 0 S-Types...

Good luck with your upcoming maintenance on the XK. A-arm bushes can be a bit(ter ex-wife)!

 

Last outstanding stab bar link arrived about 8:30 last night. I managed to get it up to Trevor at Wise Alignment this afternoon. He called as they were wrapping up and said he needed to show me something: "Those two arms are different. Can't get the caster any better than 2 degrees negative."
"Is it the right side that won't behave?"
"Yep"
We discussed it further when I got there to pick it up. He said it wouldn't cause any adverse tire wear... if anything it will pull to the left, but said it tracked straight on their test drive. (Also tracked true on my drive home)
Trevor reckons maybe the arms I got from Amazon were meant for the STR. He said generally speaking, high-power/high torque cars tend to run a lot of negative caster.


No adverse tire wear indicated and doesn't pull.... I'm good, see no reason to change things up again.

 

You need to measure the original LEFT arm you took off and the LEFT arm from Amazon to check dimensions. See if the inner fulcrum to ball joint length is different.

I have not checked the STR and NA version part numbers for differences.
Sorry I did NOT have BOTH but only had LEFT OEM part.

Glad it tracks straight.

bob gauff

 

It may be terminology but all cars run positive caster. Normal range is from 3 deg to 15 deg positive. I believe the S Type is around 6 - 8 degrees. If it's in fact 2 deg positive on one side and 7 deg on the other, the car will pull towards the side with lower number.

If it tracked straight then both sides were similar. But what you will notice is more wander, less stability going straight. You should also feel lighter efforts turning the steering wheel as there is less centering force generated by the geometry.

If it doesn't bother the driver it's not unsafe, but I would change it so it's in the ball park of factory spec.

 

All cars DO NOT run Positive Caster!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I did alignments all day back in the Late 70's and some Fords actually had negative caster like a grocery cart!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (I think some Chryslers did too)

The last of them might have been Granadas or something like that.
Bias Ply Tires had a lot to do with alignment specs and Negative Castor helped in some cases.

bob gauff

 

Zane,

This morning I did an oil & filter change / tire rotation on my 2005 S-Type 3.0 at 96,400 miles and noticed that both front upper ball joint casings are starting to degrade although the ball joints may not have any play in them yet and my tire wear remains completely even across the surface of all four tires. It appears that I cannot just order two new front upper ball joints and instead must order two entire front upper wishbone assemblies that come with the ball joints welded into them, correct?

I see the ones from amazon.com that you linked to your initial post in this thread are now down to about $103 for the pair with free shipping. I know you struggled with getting them to fit properly so would you still recommend them as long as I have access to air tools and a 20-ton press at Wayne's (cjd777) house? And have they been on the car long enough for you to determine if they are causing any uneven tire wear problems?

SNG Barratt Group sells aftermarket front upper wishbone assemblies for $118 each plus shipping so if your amazon.com specials are up to the job, they will cost less than half as much....

 

Eagerly awaiting Zane's response, Jon.

I happened across Joyces this past Monday. I am in the name boat. Hers appear to be in the same condition at about 85k.

 

I recently replaced both upper front control arms on my 06 S-Type. All of the cheap Chinese junk suppliers sell the control arms for the pre upgrade S-Types even though they claim they fit all years 2000 to 2008, they do not. The only ones I have found that are correct for the post upgrade S-Types ( other than the Dealer supplied units ) is the Lemforder units specified for the 03 - 08 S-Types. The earlier arms have a completely different geometry and will not work at all. Amazon does not sell the later arms even though some suppliers claim 2000 - 2008 compatibility.
When you fit the new Lemforder units use the old nylock ball joint nut with a dab of Loctite. You will see why when you do the job.

 

Rick,

I'm also waiting for Zane's reply. I understand Gerry755's comment about the much cheaper amazon.com units having different geometry compared to the OEM units. The amazon.com upper front ball joints look to be welded in place at 90 degrees whereas my factory upper front ball joints look to be welded in place at an angle, perhaps 75 degrees. If I wind up not trusting the amazon.com units I would probably go with the SNG Barratt aftermarket units since I don't believe SNG Barratt would sell me anything that wouldn't fit my 2005 model properly. But at $118 each, that's certainly a lot more than I would like to spend if I don't have to....

Maybe we can arrange to do joycesjag and my car at the same time. Do you have all the necessary tools? I know Wayne does so perhaps we should meet up there. I know he would love to host us. I don't consider this job critical yet because I didn't feel any play in my ball joints when I was pushing them around this morning. But I know that sooner or later they will fail and have to be replaced or risk premature tire wear....

 

Amazon does have the Lemforder upper control arms for the 03-08 S Type.


The Lemforder does look like OEM with the part # ground off.
$404 for the pair. I found them for $320 for the pair. Better than $1400 from Jag

 

Very humbled and honored that Jon and Rick are anxiously awaiting my input!!!
I've since fit a pair of the $100 Amazon arms to the 05. Ball joints were tight, but bushes were knackered. Both were direct fit with no press required.


They will move your caster aft, but it is particularly not a problem when you fit them in pairs. You may recall I fit new bushes in the rear arms of the 03? What a heinous evolution! No way I'd go through that again on the fronts when new arms can be had for $100/pair.


Just traded the 05 to the daughter for the 03, as it has been too long in the field without service. Haven't had a chance to pull it in and pull and shake on the A-arms, but there is no abnormal tire wear. The arms have been on for about 36k miles. The tires only for 13K. They did over 24k on my 95 VDP, then transferred to the 03 S-T 13k ago, with no rotation...yet...as I said - too long in the field. Baby's been too busy with Pharmacy school to come home for any amount of time.

I wouldn't hesitate to fit the Amazon arms.

 

Thanks for your valued input, Zane. That's good to know. Now I just need to decide how long I can roll the dice and get by with my original upper front wishbone arms before the ball joints eventually fail. Maybe they still have another 10,000 miles left in them....

Rick, given Zane's fresh input what's your plan for joycesjag's upper front wishbone arms?

 

FWIW, I renewed the 03 Upper Front A-arms due to ball joint wear at about 149K mi
the 05 due to bush wear at about 125K mi.

Perhaps could've done each a lot earlier.....I've shredded enough expen$ive Michelin inner tread to have perhaps afforded dealer parts and service for it!!! To be fair, that's been more a function of when/where they failed, though.....and tie-rod ends, front and rear....both cars, seem to have a knack for failing suspensions when away from home and woman-driven.....so adverse tire-wear is first noticed when the pretty white cords start showing themselves....

BTW...I just remembered....I took pictures of the difference when I swapped arms on the 05...I'll see if I can locate and post them.

 

The 03 - 08 front suspension design is very different from the early S Type, the front subfame is different along with the lower control arms and mountings. Hosing up the suspension geometry using the wrong components is a problem. Are you going to use the car for drifting ?


Too much positive caster is felt as mid turn and later understeer and or bumpsteer. Caster (and KPA) greatly affect straight-line stability. Increasing positive caster projects the the point where the steering axis projected line meets the ground further away from the tire's contact patch. This creates what is known as caster trail. When the tire contact patch is behind the steering axis, the steering wants to stay centered behind the axis, great for drifting. Basically you have a crap handling S-Type. There is a reason Jag spent millions developing the suspension design. First time round they got it wrong which is why the later design showed up. If you are happy with your new geometry, you must drive real slow.


Saving a couple of hundred $ using the wrong design of Chinese junk in a safety critical location is not smart. The upper A arm ball joint is mission critical and its quite ugly and YouTube worthy when it gives way.

 

Zane, any response to Gerry755's scathing post above?

Have you noticed a difference in front suspension behavior in either the 2003 car or the 2005 car since the amazon.com parts were installed?

 

It wasn't meant to be scathing, only slightly informative with a modest amount of sarcasm. I race an MGB and have a reasonable engineering knowledge of suspension and steering geometry and its impact on handling, particularly at the limits. What I use on the track is wholly unsuitable for the road.

 

If the replacements are a different length/geometry then Gerry pretty much has to be right, or someone explain why not please.

 

Nah Jon, I've developed an immunity to internet troll-bait over the last few years. I guess the last time I "bit" was when our good friend Richard "Barney" Fife took it upon himself to defend some exceedingly fetching young lady (whose userid I can't currently recall) from my attempts to elicit the promised pic of the leaper mounted to the bonnet of her XF. Seems I still offend him 1.52 X per day or whatever my post-rate is these days.... Anyway, I reckon we can all agree suspension geometry is not rocket science, so it is outside my field of expertise. I'm just an ol' guy maintaining 5 Jaguars and doing my own service and repair work save highly specialized equipment requirements (like alignments) or when I venture out too deep and have to beg Motorcarman to bail me out. So my advice is offered freely (and we all know you get what you pay for) but is perhaps only useful for some, not all. The individual readers have the responsibility for self-determination as to whether they are in the applicable group or not.

But inasmuch as you've goaded me, here, I will hold forth on a specific issue that IS a bit closer to my field of expertise, raised in the quotes pre- and post-ceding yours:

If so, they should surely insist on a refund! I never owned the earlier model S, but have heard much about their shortcomings, but never was poor handling numbered among them. Suspension component durability, YES! Certainly. Maybe handling was sub-standard (I'm sure it was sketchy with knackered gubbings) but I never saw this listed as a gripe against it. So lets consider the MY2002.5/2003 Redesign and the vaunted Jaguar engineering prowess, shall we?
As I said, never had the earlier model, but I'd guess they'd want to address suspension bushes and ball joints failing prematurely, headlight adjusters failing prematurely, causing the headlights to spot the deck immediately in front of the car, the DCCV failing and letting some magic smoke out of the climate control module, the coolant reservoir failing prematurely, the upper radiator hose failing prematurely, the fuel door latch fiasco, the park pawl fiasco...... ok, that's enough for now.... Let's see how they've come:
Suspension bushes and ball joints- maybe they last a bit longer, but I'd call 100k an early failure
Headlight adjusters-no real evidence they tackled this - I believe parts are interchangeable (they did change it for the XF, yet the issue persists)
DCCV Failure- changed the valve, still fails (but hey, it moved to a more accessible location!)
Climate Control Module susceptibility to failure due to DCCV failure - Nope, no improvement.
Coolant Reservoir - changed it, still fails early and often (but hey! It's more readily accessible!)
Upper radiator hose - sorry see any point above...
Fuel door latch (sorry, this change was part of the 05 refresh, not 03) but yeah, you guessed it -fails earlier, and more often.
Last (apparently for Jaguar, not least) the park pawl problem was eliminated!!! In favor of the "Lurch". Still.... most would take the trade. As an added bonus, they've fit the electronic park brake (which would've mitigated the park-pawl issue) to emphatically remind redesign owners when their battery is starting to flatten...
So yeah, glad that redesign project isn't haunting MY resume'