Re "Toyotas troubles".

A 5min. check on this on the interweb reveals the following:--

Dated Feb. 2011. Daily Mail.
"The investigation by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and NASA looked at 280,000 lines of computer code for flaws, but could find nothing to explain the problems.
They said the causes were the ones they suspected all along — bulky floormats, sticking gas pedals and driver mistakes.

'We found that when a complaint alleged the brakes didn't work, what most likely happened was pedal misapplication,' said deputy NHTSA administrator Ron Medford
U.S. regulators continue to look into 89 deaths that may be associated with sudden acceleration in Toyota and Lexus vehicles but have so far linked only a handful to the floor mat problem.
The company has already paid nearly $50m for the recall and to settle allegations that it failed to inform authorities about the problems quickly enough.
It could be potentially liable for up to $10 billion.
It could be potentially liable for up to $10 billion.

 

Guys,

The capacitor debate is starting to take over Bertrandgray's thread and making it difficult to follow his progress.
I think it would be best to continue the discussion on the pros and cons of capacitors on Leedsman's original thread https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/g...pacitor-53895/ or start a new one for that purpose if you prefer.

Thanks

 

I quite agree Norri. Far too much is being made of this.
Leedsamn.

 

Ugggg....Please read the link you posted... NASA and NHTSA found multiple causes...Not all are driver error...But none were due to "runaway electronics" like so many want to claim...

BTW... Search on Automotive News and Automotive News Europe... Trade news outlets... After black box review, the sue happy are probably going to loose badly...

OK, Norri, I'll be good from now on...

 

No need to be good, it's an interesting discussion, just needs to change locations.

 

You're going to love this!

Went to the dealership this morning to check on "that car" and saw several technicians standing around it in the service bay. Lucas pointed to me and said, "It's his car!". Evidently, the tech just finished test driving the car and slammed his wrench on the floor in frustration. He said it went into limp mode again - after a new throttle body and all new relays had been installed! The best part is that the car went into limp mode and did not throw any codes. According to Lucas, they have checked all of the wiring and determined that it is good (no chafing and attached propery). The next step is to replace the engine computer.

It is just downright funny to me now. Stay tuned for my David Letterman countdown of the top 10 advantages to havng your S-Type in the shop!

Here it is: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/o...pe-shop-56692/

 

You'd think they'd drive it with their data recorder attached and afterwards look at the recording to see what was happening when it went into limp mode.

Perhaps that's a bit too clever.

I'm "surprised" (i.e. a bit unbelieving) about the lack of codes but the data recorder would be my plan.

haha - love that off topic thread!!

 

Yikes... Wow, I usually don't go this way but your car just may be one of those "always a problem" cars.. I am not normally a nay sayer...

John.. I know those guys, and they may not have been data logging when they tested it that time because they thought they got it fixed... They do go out and data log. They've done it with me. For them to say it didn't store any codes is bizare. It will be real interesting to see what it is going on.

BTW: I still shake my head at the dealer in Warren that changed your transmission...

Like I stated in your other funny thread, I'm going to have to pay my buddies a visit next week... They may throw a wrench at me for sending your car to them.

 

In that case they probably got cross at themselves for thinking they fixed it then test driving without the recorder! Hey, still time for them to do that.

In case it turns out to be a harness going bad, they can be awfully hard to diagnose (I'm sure you & they know that, however). If harnesses would just FAIL (i.e. all the time), diagnosis would be sooooo much easier.

Car makers could do with a better strategy for these - rare - very hard to fix cars. Whether that's a whole heap of harnesses and computers that go in to cross-reference what's happening or just buying another similar car and handing the keys to the poor customer I don't know, but they need something.

 

Getting ready to go into warrior mode!

Dealing with Lucas has been great, he seems empathetic and has communicated well with me. Evidently, he was out last Friday and today; so I dealt with Mike (sits in the office opposite of Lucas). I spent a lot of time this morning trying to refrain from losing my temper with him. Here is why: I called last Friday to do my normal status check and got Mike; told him that I needed a loaner or rental and my warranty covered it. He told me he could get me something through Enterprise (rental company) but not until Monday morning. Fine, I can wait until Monday. So I get there this morning and ask where is my rental or loaner? He goes into this long rant about how until the car's problem is diagnosed that the warranty company won't authorize the rental payment. He also stated that it is a lot of paperwork for them. My response, "Did you know this on Friday when we spoke on the phone?". Response, "I confused you with another customer". He also implied that my car is not top priority with them. So naturally I began asking questions related to how much time per day are they spending on it. He said that it is in the rotation. All of this time, he is looking at the other paperwork on his desk and not giving me eye contact. My impression was that I was stopping him from getting his other work done. Two things stopped me from going off at that moment: 1) The positive interactions I have had with Lucas and that he will be in tomorrow 2) I was in a rush to get to a meeting and I would have to drop my wife at her job - taking extra time that I did not have.
After 5 woosahs while leaving, I determined that I will limit my interactions to just Lucas. It is now time for me to go into micro-project manager mode. Unfortunately for Lucas, I am going to demand the exact next steps and timeframe they are going to go through and I am going to call or stop in every single morning to see if the objectives/results have been achieved. Up to this point, I have been very jovial and good natured dealing with this problem, but now that I am out of my daily driver due to my son getting into an accident (he's ok, but ain't life and its timing grand?) the heat is going to be turned up on them. We are now closing in on one month since the car was given to them and I feel we are no closer to understanding the problem or fixing it.
I am beginning to formulate plan B which would be to part the car out. It is probably the only way to get back the entire purchase price. As a good Christian, I refuse to sell the car to anyone knowing the headache it will cause them. If the cause is not found, this car does not deserve to be on the road. I have set a deadline of three more weeks; if the problem is not discovered by that time, I will be opening up a parts for sale thread. I am probably irrational at the moment because of the negative experience this morning, but I am rapidly approaching the breaking point. Funny how customer service can change your attitude. I guarantee if this turns out badly; I will be on the warpath against Jaguar and their dealerships.

Stay tuned - It is about to get interesting!

 

Oh Damn.. (prolly get in trouble for using a bad word)

The "Mike" you are referring to is the service manager.... The guy that sits across from Lucas is Rob... I certainly hope the names got crossed... When over worked, Rob can be a PIA...Not an excuse, but I had to go over his head once... After that, he was a very good boy....

I really want to know who you actually talked to... Was he a grey haired older gent or a dark haired younger guy... I am very curious because I value my reputation on this and any forum and recommend these guys as a resource. This is not an acceptable response. (Oh, BTW, my argument with Rob was over an "Enterprise" transaction). They should have handed you the keys to a dealer loaner, if all of them are out, they should have scheduled a date / time that they would have one back. Not some cheesy Enterprise rental car.

Because of my reputation, I am ready to go over there. As of a few days ago I was going to spring for a couple dozen donuts for the trouble they are going through with a tough issue.

The rotation thing is normal. Often times the service department has more cars in then they have technicians. So, with a "big" job like yours, they will book time with the tech in between other "quick" or "cut and dry" repairs and services. But, you don't put it like that to a customer! You explain that they are doing what they can..How many hours you are working on it....Any and all trouble the warranty company is giving you....

Please post back.... It isn't my car, and I don't actually do business with them at this time....But it irks me none the less!

 

I apologize. In my anger I mixed up the names. You are right it was Rob. I appreciate your concern. Your reputation is safe with me - you are trying to help!

 

Damn Rob...... Please e-mail or call Mike Shoda. Try to remain calm and explain what is going on. Mike is a busy guy and sometimes is tough to get hold of. To be honest, your treatment and issues definitely mean getting the manager involved. If you would like Mike's e-mail vs. calling, please PM me.

Not that any of this is remotely acceptable, but I am certainly relieved that it wasn't Mike that pulled that crap.. And yes, as reasonable as I am, what you were told is crap!

 

All,

Here is the latest. Sat down with Lucas today; he believes they have narrowed the problem down to either the instrument pack or the body harness. After installing a new engine computer (which they are going to leave in the car - somehow it was covered under the original new car warranty - hey whatever!) the only components left in the chain that are not new are the instrument pack and the body harness. Originally, they thought all of the wiring was good; but the previous owner had a remote starter installed. I had the system removed from the car by Byers Jaguar in Columbus. However, it is possible that something left over from that is causing the problem. The biggest downside if this is the problem is warranty won't cover it. It will be 6 hours of labor just to diagnose. Lucas is working with the warranty company to see if they will cover the diagnostic wiring trace. When I asked how much a new body harness would cost - over $7000 for just the part (not including installation). I am heavily wishing for the instrument pack to be the culprit since it would be covered by warranty. I have decided that anything over $1500 out of pocket is wasting money and I will execute plan B and part the car out. It seems like that there should be some way to fix a bad harness if it is limited to a couple of wires that were spliced for the remote starter system - but I don't know how complex those systems are to install or how many splices are made into the harness. I am still trying to remain positive and hope that it will be something covered under warranty. Keep your fingers crossed for me.

 

Will do , keep us updated on this

 

Hope it doesn't turn out to be previous work (whether installation or removal). Also, hope if it is that they don't start along the path "we only did all this recent work due to that other stuff so why should warranty cover any of it?"

It could be a harness problem right from manufacturing as some were damaged in production. This even affected a car magzine's car and some terse details were published in print and are online. (Posted on here before but I can repost if you wish.)

You wouldn't normally replace a major harness (far too expensive). Instead, you find the affected wire(s) and bypass the affected part(s). There are dozens of wires in the main front harness - the one I just mentioned - and they snake out all over. (This is normal for modern cars.)

 

Wow... I guess the only thing I can add at this point is a bit of positive encouragement. Lucas (or any dealer that I've dealt with) usually provide the worse case to the customer up front so they know what direction to take. More than likely, in an effort to trace back the issue, they will also discover a solution to repair the harness. Unfortunately, if it was damaged by the installation of a non-Jaguar accessory, the warranty on that component would be voided. I think they will be able to push that issue through...It really depends on the warranty company...

BTW: The engine computer is covered by the emissions warranty that is much longer in duration than the standard warranty.

Funny thing is what the warranty company may do with the dealer that replaced the transmission. Trust me, your car has a claim history and while you won't be responsible for mis-diagnosed repairs, the servicing dealer may be if the warranty company connects the dots on this. Really, extended warranties are basically insurance policies on the mechanics of a vehicle.

I have my fingers crossed for ya...

Also, did you get resolution to the "Rob Incident"???

 

bertandgrey the below link is some interesting reading, explains the instrument pack (cluster). You could start at the begining or jump to page 2, post #36 by Brutal:

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...4-52450/page2/

 

BertrandGrey, as in my other posting re. Google results, I would certainly examine where the wiring harness has been interfered with, and I'd examine it very closely indeed. In my electronics experience (about 50 years) such areas are prone to give trouble, especially intermittently. The other case of slightly dodgy plug/socket combos also needs serious examinations. I was only thinking the other day that computer makers always use gold-plated plug/sockets and edge connectors simply for freedom from intermittent connexions and that other bugbear, subtly delayed data that can cause timing conflicts due to unexpected resistance in the contacts. I should think the case for gold-plated contacts for a car was much more valid than a computer due to the hostile environment, extremes of temperature etc. Everything about that wiring harness of yours needs to be under a spotlight -- and not one costing $7000!
Leedsman.

 

My 03 had the ZF replaced at 42k, PO was an older lady so I doubt she was doing drag launches...but one never knows. However I notice on the same invoice that they replaced the engine ECM, fuel pump assembly... but the ticket says 'Vehicle won't move in gear. Reverse or drive, internal trans failure' so I would think it just puked.