What is everyone's advice on where to get my car serviced ... go to the dealership or find an alternative mom/pop auto shop?

 

What is the nature of the work you need?

 

it depends on if the mom and pop work on Jaguars and knows them and the issue between yr and models. I dont care what car you have take it to someone that KNOWS the car line well. It save money in the longrun by knowing the issues, how to fix them and diag quickly and KNOWLEDGE is what you want not a cheaper $/hr. I just had a long time customer that took her 05 to a indie. 4 air springs later(she only needed rf) and a new t stat housing(she needed but not the 2 switched lines that overheated the motor) She learned her lesson that cheap does always total cheaper. She didnt come to us because she didnt want to spend the money on new Jaguar springs and bought Arnots. We would install them and I know them well. We just arent going to warrnaty them. They didnt know how to diag properly so they told her she needed all 4, and that cracked t stat housing she needed. Well It cost her selling her 5XJ for $15k when the guy came to drive it and it overheated having to be towed to me to fx their screwup. And simple oil changes, sure theyre easy, but that and opportunity for an experienced tech to inspect and find issues we know are common to models before they become issues that are more costly and a hassle. you know like broke down overheated on the side of the road waiting for a wrecker. I see lots of them come, like coolant leaks on oil changes that customers are totally unaware of as an example. Small lekas now but who knows when it will go out bigtime leaving you stuck. Wouldnt you rather be aware at least to make that decision?

 

I have a bias against dealerships. Not because of the techs, but rather from the mindset of taking advantage of the customer's ignorace by management. I am speaking of my Toyota dealer.

So I took my Matrix to what I thought was a reputable dealer for an oil change. Yes, I could have changed the oil myself, but the price was so discounted, it was actually cheaper than doing it myself.

So I take the car in, and the service writer, lets call him Slimeball, asks me to take a seat in his office while he goes over to the car and moves it to a different parking space, so that the car was facing away from me. Instead of sitting, I watched him move the car, open the hood, (wondering why this is necessary) half a minute passes, close the hood, and walk over to me with green liquid on his finger. He had the gall to tell me that the car is leaking coolant and needs the water pump replaced.

I told him "Its amazing that my toyota is such a poorly manufactured car, that after only 40k miles it needed a new water pump." I added, "Just change the oil and filter."

But he couldn't stop there. He did some work on his computer and printed out two sheets. He then told me that the car was over due for its 36k mile service interval, and that would be $600 for the basic or $900 for the premium. If I could just sign and authorize either one, they could begin work immediately.

I told Slimeball sternly "Just change the oil and filter" for which he replied, "You realize that lack of these service intervals are going to void your warranty!"
I said "Do I need to speak with the Service Manager, because you seem determined to screw me over."
Slimeball: "No, uh, uh..."
Me: "Just change the oil and filter."

I think he got the hint.

So after the work was done, I went over the car with a fine tooth comb, checking for any foul play. Fortunately, none was found. (Can't say this about a certain Honda dealer.)

A about two weeks later, I got a phone call from a representative of the dealership, asking how my service went. I ripped them a new one.

I really feel sorry for the average person, for they do not understand the workings of a car. They would have been in a bad way in the same situation. I am lucky because I typically do all my own repair work and do understand the majority of the systems.

I believe in naming those dealers who are unethical.

Toyota of Dublin, in Dublin, California
Honda Hayward, in Hayward, California

 

You want someone who knows the kind of car you have and regularly works on them. (That may actually not be a dealer as the staff who knew the S-Type may have left or won't be set to work on your car.)

I guess your asking means you don't DIY. One of the most useful things is being able not just to DIY but spend time eyeballing whether all is OK or not...

 

Learn to DIY. A basic set of tools, a mindset willing to spend the necessary time to learn, and a forum such as this one can carry you a long, long way towards your goal of effectively performing your own maintenance and repairs....

It's easier and more efficient now to learn to DIY even though cars are getting more electronically complicated with each passing year. Back in the mid-1970s when I decided I would learn to DIY in order to save considerable money on the care and feeding of my beloved 1974 Datsun 260Z, there was no Internet and no automotive forums. So I ordered the $30 Owners Workshop Manual for my car and started by reading it cover to cover multiple times. As maintenance was needed, I read the appropriate sections, broke out my tools, and did the work, always learning on the fly. This approach still works today, but access to the appropriate forums makes the process much more effective and efficient....

 

Ahh ... but ...

The beauty of books is that they are relatively complete and there are only a finite number of pages. At some point, the reader has to put the book down and actually do something with what they have read. The temptation on the internet is to keep on reading without actually doing anything, or at the other extreme, to randomly gather incomplete snippets of information.

 

Heima, what you say can be true in many situations. Not just dealers but Indies and mom and pops and quick oil change joints. Most of these places boast about lower prices but are under the gun to up sell and try to recoup those so called lower prices

. The bosses at these places put pressure on the techs and customers to do more work, bring in more money. They best way around being called liers and selling un needed repairs is to play the schedulled maintenance card, nothing broken but it is time to do this because if you dont your 18 year old daughter will break down at 2 AM in the wrong location.
Scare tactics. Not just dealers but ALL repair shops

BTW.. Buyer beware. This is true foe all service people. Plumbers, electricians, any place that does services for money. The more knowledge the customer has the better they can make decisions on who to trust
.
IMHO I am finding more and more young people including my own kids who have absolute zero knowledge of anything mechanical or trade type work. Even with my advice and guidance they dont seem to be interested.

I think these repair people can fool most of the population today because of this ignorance. When they run up against a savy customer they are shocked and dont know how to handle it very well. Probably doesn't happen very often any more.

This used to be mostly women, I think it is now happening to all.

 

I don't think that "learning to DIY" is always the correct answer. At BEST a novice DIY is no better than the average INDY shop. (Notice I said a "novice DIY", not an experienced one)

Nor is he dealer always the best solution. My local dealer has failed me repeatedly when it comes to their service dept. Every time I think I'll give 'em another try, they fail again. I've discussed a couple of these failures with the manager and have decided that he is most likely toe root of the problem.

I'm with Brutal on this. Find someone who knows the model they're working on. And check references. A good shop would be happy to give you names & numbers of some pleased customers, preferably with the same model car you have.

And lastly: don't be shy using the wisdom found here. Do a search of symptoms, see what has come up, see what the pitfalls are, and suggest them to your tech. They might secretly roll their eyes at you, because you're telling them what they already know.... but guess what: they'll know you're paying attention.

 

What's the phrase? - Knowledge is power

Not that they read them (I did however), but I gave my girlfriends service manuals for their cars, to keep in their cars. This way, should she need to take it to a shop (because I could not get to it) the mechanic would see the manual and hopefully think that she had some knowledge with the car and would not be an easy target. Or that they would think that she had a boyfriend or husband that worked on the car, but could not for some reason.

I will qualify the above information by adding that my girlfriends were long distance relationships.


Getting back to my previous post, I guess I did not make myself clear. (Happens a lot, now that I am getting older.) I do the repairs on my vehicles and do better than the maintenance schedule. The 36k mile service interval for the Matrix was something like checking fluids and replacing filters. I don't see how it could logically cost $600. But then, the dealership was running a scam.

In the past, I had been more satisfied with the service from an independent, than from a dealer because of cost. Typically, I knew what was wrong with the car, I just did not have the tools (or time) to do the work myself. Yes, I read what Brutal wrote and agree. But consider this: when a dealer sends out certain work to an independent shop, would not it be better for me to go to that independent shop directly for the same service? It will cost less and I don't have to deal with a middle man.

The dealer business model is to just replace defective parts, trusting the "brand" to do the background brain work. I prefer someone who understands why a part fails and either fixes the part to a better design or replaces the part and makes conditions so that it does not fail again. Lets take Brutal's S Type headlight mod for example. Which would you rather pay for, a new set of headlight assemblies for $1000 and they will last for the same amount of time (3-5 years), or pay an independent $70 to do Brutal's mod, which will last at least 3-5 years? Easy answer.

Yes, there are plenty of scumbag independent shops, and I am sure there are many great dealer shops. I am just going by my own experience.

I am long-winded, but I want to end this tirade with an interesting story. One girlfriend lived with her brother and sister. They were immigrants from Taiwan, so their English was a second language. The sister took her car into the Nissan dealership for some minor service. She prepaid the service so that the pickup after service would be streamlined. My girlfriend dropped her brother off for the pickup. At the service counter they had the car keys on a stack of papers. The clerk was sitting at her desk and did not get up. The brother asked for the keys and paperwork. The clerk said the keys were right there with the paperwork. The brother was puzzled and asked if all this paperwork was for the car. The clerk got annoyed and said yes, that all was for the car. The brother said, "This seems like a lot." The clerk was now angry and told him to just take the keys and the paperwork with it. Not knowing English that well, he did just that. I saw the paperwork.

There were over 120 work orders for different cars. On each work order was the name, address, phone number, and (wait for it ...) social security number of each customer. Yes, the dealership was arrogant enough to ask for SSNs, and the customers were naive enough to provide it. The sister returned the paperwork (sans hers) the next day. The dealership didn't raise an eyebrow, just said "thanks".

 

We're with you hiema.

 

I live in a strata townhouse where what little DIY maintenance I can do is limited to my garage space, without hoists, pits or pulleys. Not too good for much else but fluids top-up, brake checks, battery charging, quiketz tube fitting, Brutal-type headlamp adjusting, checking error codes & tire pressures, lubricating locks & hinges, interior & exterior cleanliness and leather maintenance.

BUT, by reading everything about STR's in this forum, I have gained enough knowledge to impress my Jaguar indie and also the local dealer, who now know better than to try and screw me over. This includes details of servicing at various intervals of time and/or mileage. It works - more than once I have been able to question "professional" opinions, including diagnoses and cost estimates for parts.

So, while not being a DIY owner, this forum has enabled me to keep the Jag going without it costing an arm and a leg. Not to mention that it helps to ensure that my indie will continue to stay in business.

 

Ide say go to an EXPERIANCED indie if I worked for one too. I believe people do a good job because thats the work they want to be known for. And I wont go into my pissed offness(word?) about home construction and contractors Im dealing with right now. AND REMEMBER THIS, dont hire friends and family Its STILL a good rule as I was just reminded of it yet again.

 

So sad.

But good advice.

 

With the right approach, having knowledge can work out very well with service trades.

Everyone, no matter what they do, likes to be recognised for their skills.

The only person whose appreciation is really meaningful is someone who understands the skill that is being exercised.

If handled well, the relationship can be mutually satisfying and beneficial.

And no, there is no app 4 that.

BTW, fair pricing is not necessarily cheap pricing. However, any business will bend over backwards for a customer that is liked and likable.

 

Aww, you just gotta get creative. I was able to pull the front forks off my VTR250 by running a breaker bar through the frame and using floor jacks on either side. That one ain't in the manual.

Heck, I used to service the cars in a 3-sided shed with a dirt floor. I used office chair mats for a flat smooth surface.

I don't know how many carbs I have rebuilt on a picnic table in my patio.

Servicing is harder when you don't have a garage. You would be amazed what you can do when you improvise.

 

That right there is a quotable quote....

I tend to do my own service, but there always seems to be something that comes up that is beyond my skill set.

It always pays to establish a relationship with a shop, dealer or independent.
I've spoke with dealer shops, explaining that I do most work myself but may need their help with things. Some respect that, others could care less.

I had a good relationship with my Jag dealer when I had it. I used to just stop in and say hi now and again, usually with a dozen donuts...

Every time it was being serviced for something they took me out to talk with the tech and showed me exactly what they found. No, not everything went just perfect (my body work saga comes to mind) but even then, they always worked to make it right and I never lost my cool...

Now, I really need to listen to myself and find a Benz dealer around here with a good service dept...LOL

 

I have no problem going to my local Jag dealer for repairs. I try to do most things myself, but don't always have the time or the patients. I had my intakes and o rings done along with "the elbow" just after I bought it and every year since they send me a $35 gift card for purchases or service. If I never have to go back I think it will eventually pay for itself.

 

Now that you mention it; My wife is an educator. As such, my dealer (who is my Jag / Benz / Jeep / Fiat dealer as well) sends her $100 in service-dept coupon every year. PLUS: Benz has a deal where if I spend $180 annually in service they will continue to extend my roadside-assistance warranty. And yet, every time I have them do anything on my vehicles, I end up being very sorry I let them.

As with any business: it all comes down to the individuals, rather than the company. Sure, a company may have a 'culture', but the individual you are dealing with is the biggest influence on eventual satisfaction-level. That's why I keep letting them try again when something new comes-up: I keep thinking I'll find someone there that I trust.

Hasn't happened so far.