Disappointing results after performance upgrades-S Type R
#22
And Chris asks a great question that I was going to make redundant in a few weeks. On Sunday I met with the father-son owners of Lomotion Performance Cars (Pleasant Valley, NY). The son, J.J. is co-owner of OETuning (OEtuning.com). He and I are arranging a date for my 03 STR to recieve an ECU tune either at their dyno-less facility or me to drive to a location where they perform dyno-tunes. My car would serve as a test mule so that ya all can piggy back on my tune. They've tuned Jags except the STR. I'll report back with progress on this subject.
Last edited by bfsgross; 10-13-2010 at 02:21 PM.
#24
And Chris asks a great question that I was going to make redundant in a few weeks. On Sunday I met with the father-son owners of Lomotion Performance Cars (Pleasant Valley, NY). The son, J.J. is co-owner of OETuning (OEtuning.com). He and I are arranging a date for my 03 STR to recieve an ECU tune either at their dyno-less facility or me to drive to a location where they perform dyno-tunes. My car would serve as a test mule so that ya all can piggy back on my tune. They've tuned Jags except the STR. I'll report back with progress on this subject.
If there is a god, he will let us finally dynotune our STRs (after 341374612389 years of waiting)...
#25
Join Date: Sep 2008
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by the time and money you end up spending on these, you can have a twin screw blower kit from avos and spend less $/hp
#26
ECU tune
Phil, I don't know if OE's ($?, primary tuner was head software designer for SuperChips) tune will be superior to that of EuroToys ($995, will not discuss the particulars of their tune, tuner, nor method). Without a dyno to verify a gain it's a shot in the dark. I told OE that after the tune I will go to a dyno to see how she's doing and will either be proud or dissapointed with their product.... Non offer a refund save Eurotec Designs ($995), which by the way will re-tune the ECU at no cost if you should further mod the engine. I'm nearing my decision of who's to tune the ECU and will faithfully share any data and try earnestly to gain a discount for members of this forum.
Last edited by bfsgross; 10-13-2010 at 06:08 PM.
#27
#28
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^^^XK/XJ I dont think he gave up. Just not ready for prime time yet more than likely. Personally Ide do a STR only cause I like them, actually like them all. But the STR IMO has the best out of the box factory tune of ecu and trans.
The XK is a dog off the line due to trans and ecu tuning, turn off trac in a STR and waste the tires if so inclined, XJ are second and funny since the XK is the "SPORTS CAR" of the bunch 3rd
The XK is a dog off the line due to trans and ecu tuning, turn off trac in a STR and waste the tires if so inclined, XJ are second and funny since the XK is the "SPORTS CAR" of the bunch 3rd
#29
#30
You can’t just add up individual performance claims, even the claims itself are sometimes already pretty optimistic. Example, a stock car could benefit from a tune, 15-20 rwhp might be possible, but this would be max imho. Now if you increase the boost, the tune done for the stock boost will not work nicely with this anymore, and it would require a custom tune to be perfect again. For some boost levels the stock tune is even better, and you still have some reserve/safety in it.
What did they tell you that you would gain? Personally I don’t think you can get more then 30 or 40 extra rwhp with the Eaton (unless you throw some serious money at it), people are just too enthusiastic in thinking you can get more horses relatively easy on our cars, and I speak of experience.
The rolling road is made by Dyno Dynamics and the best and worst results were 413.6 hp and 399.3 hp at the flywheel. Given the standard car is supposed to produce 395-400 hp you may understand my disappointment. It was explained to me that the Jaguar figures are optimistic and in reality the 4.2 supercharged engines typically produce 360-370 bhp, so the mods have done what is claimed. That didn't sound right to me.
The DD can only estimate engine power; no chassis dyno can do this. The best they can do is providing an estimate, but that would require some good knowledge, and I doubt DD has tested some Jaguar engines on an Engine dyno and verified the results from the chassis dyno. The disadvantage of the DD is that it has 2 very small rollers per wheel, and this causes drag on the wheels which means lower rwhp than the normal large drum per wheel dynos obviously.
So the 413 is an estimated value, but I can’t say what this value really means as I don’t have experience with these DD dynos and which calculation methods they use.
Phil, I don't know if OE's ($?, primary tuner was head software designer for SuperChips) tune will be superior to that of EuroToys ($995, will not discuss the particulars of their tune, tuner, nor method). Without a dyno to verify a gain it's a shot in the dark. I told OE that after the tune I will go to a dyno to see how she's doing and will either be proud or dissapointed with their product.... Non offer a refund save Eurotec Designs ($995), which by the way will re-tune the ECU at no cost if you should further mod the engine. I'm nearing my decision of who's to tune the ECU and will faithfully share any data and try earnestly to gain a discount for members of this forum.
By sharpening the ignition timing & a/f ratios, you are limiting your possibilities with increased boost, the stock ECU isn’t that bad if you want to increase the boost, on the other hand if you are not increasing boost than it might not be a bad idea to tune the ECU, but don’t expect huge gains.
For me the stock tune is working pretty fine as I can increase my boost levels very far, which wouldn’t be possible with a tuned ECU for a specific boost level.
If you want to go for a specific tune, then best to do this on a dyno, and take your time for it (so ensure that for every run all parameters are comparable again, like the intercooler temp for instance), but having that tune available for others might be too optimistic, they would need to have the same setup, and the tune shouldn’t be too sharp.
A superior tune doesn’t exist like that, the best tune is the one done specifically on your car with the mods you have, and still not too sharp to be relatively safe.
I haven’t stopped, but things are just not going as fast as I like ;-). I can’t make any promises yet when I could finish unfortunately.
I can definitely recommend the XKRs over the STRs, as there you can get the best power gains (and the kits are ready ;-).
#31
heres my dyno from today
Make of the figures what you will
Thats with a pulley upgrade and remap, I dont understand the bottom figures, all I know is that there is a very noticeable mid range difference, so regardless of the numbers its a lot better to me anyway
Thats with a pulley upgrade and remap, I dont understand the bottom figures, all I know is that there is a very noticeable mid range difference, so regardless of the numbers its a lot better to me anyway
Last edited by rd350ypvs1972; 03-19-2016 at 03:13 PM.
#32
Are you sure the figures aren't for rear wheel bhp? RWHP abbreviated.
If you're getting those figures at the rear wheels that's a fair hike in performance.
400 bhp standard measured at the crank will reduce through the drive train to give a lower power output at the rear wheels.
#34
Same with cars and bikes, the manufacturers "measure" bhp at the crank and it is a mathematically calculated figure, its not actually measured.
The drop in power from the theoretical crank measure to the rear wheel power (which is the only true measure or a car or bikes output) can be between 10 and 20% loss due to freeplay, tolerances and other power sapping interfaces and of course the friction resistance of all moving parts.
So your approximate 400 bhp at the wheels equates to something around 440 bhp at the crank. Just rough figures.
My supercharged Hayabusa was measured at just under 240 rwhp (rear wheel horsepower) on the dyno. But if I work that back to the crank it owuld be say about 270/280 bhp.
Another thing with rolling road dynos which has a significant impact on how much power is actually produced is the air quality, air temperature and relative humidity. I know this from being around drag racers and the racer who did the engine work on my bike.
The other factor is different dyno's will give different results.
So over all you done good !
The drop in power from the theoretical crank measure to the rear wheel power (which is the only true measure or a car or bikes output) can be between 10 and 20% loss due to freeplay, tolerances and other power sapping interfaces and of course the friction resistance of all moving parts.
So your approximate 400 bhp at the wheels equates to something around 440 bhp at the crank. Just rough figures.
My supercharged Hayabusa was measured at just under 240 rwhp (rear wheel horsepower) on the dyno. But if I work that back to the crank it owuld be say about 270/280 bhp.
Another thing with rolling road dynos which has a significant impact on how much power is actually produced is the air quality, air temperature and relative humidity. I know this from being around drag racers and the racer who did the engine work on my bike.
The other factor is different dyno's will give different results.
So over all you done good !
#35
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Not true. All OEMs have dynos that attach directly to the crankshaft. The HP and TQ are measured directly and in accordance with SAE procedure.
#36
Well using the torque app I have just done a few 0-60mph times (not 0-62) and the results are.......
With a full tank of fuel and driver (me) weighing 18st (fat *******) lol it did....
5.056 secs on avg over 3 runs, thats with traction control ON, sport mode on and flooring from stand still on idle
impressed for a 14 year old car
With a full tank of fuel and driver (me) weighing 18st (fat *******) lol it did....
5.056 secs on avg over 3 runs, thats with traction control ON, sport mode on and flooring from stand still on idle
impressed for a 14 year old car
#37
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#38
#39
yes Avos's car is a beast, on the other hand I dont have £10,000 to do it to mine.
@Mikey, yes but I want the improved midrange not just 0-60 since I can't afford to blow £800 a go on tyres that often lol
Dyno's as we all know are not a true reflection on real world performance. I know it has improved over what it was so i'm happy
@Mikey, yes but I want the improved midrange not just 0-60 since I can't afford to blow £800 a go on tyres that often lol
Dyno's as we all know are not a true reflection on real world performance. I know it has improved over what it was so i'm happy
#40
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