DIY Guide: Transmission fluid and transmission fluid filter & sleeve change S-Type
#21
10-31-2022, 06:48 PM
Thanks Don,
I got a reply from ZF in Australia. They wrote:
>>>Locally we don’t comment on different types of oils as we can’t really say what the true affect will be on the transmission operation. The lifeguard 6 oil was specially designed for the 6HP transmission and is part of the design package. Using a thicker oil can increase the internal drag which will have an effect on the efficiency of the transmission. <<<<
And I attached the pdf they have sent, which lists lifeguard 6 (page 4, second box from the bottom) plus a long list of eight ATFs, which would be the various names, of how various vehicle manufacturers call that ATF, which would be lifeguard 6. I knew already that BMW calls it BMW Oil No. 8322 0142516, because this is what the sticker on my oil filter says to use (as I used the BMW filter).
And page 6, bottom: ZF recommends an ATF change every 150,000km.
I read already elsewhere, that the normal operational temperature of ATF is around 80°C, and temperatures above that would reduce the lifetime of the ATF.
I got a reply from ZF in Australia. They wrote:
>>>Locally we don’t comment on different types of oils as we can’t really say what the true affect will be on the transmission operation. The lifeguard 6 oil was specially designed for the 6HP transmission and is part of the design package. Using a thicker oil can increase the internal drag which will have an effect on the efficiency of the transmission. <<<<
And I attached the pdf they have sent, which lists lifeguard 6 (page 4, second box from the bottom) plus a long list of eight ATFs, which would be the various names, of how various vehicle manufacturers call that ATF, which would be lifeguard 6. I knew already that BMW calls it BMW Oil No. 8322 0142516, because this is what the sticker on my oil filter says to use (as I used the BMW filter).
And page 6, bottom: ZF recommends an ATF change every 150,000km.
I read already elsewhere, that the normal operational temperature of ATF is around 80°C, and temperatures above that would reduce the lifetime of the ATF.
#22
10-31-2022, 07:09 PM
Thanks Don,
I got a reply from ZF in Australia. They wrote:
>>>Locally we don’t comment on different types of oils as we can’t really say what the true affect will be on the transmission operation. The lifeguard 6 oil was specially designed for the 6HP transmission and is part of the design package. Using a thicker oil can increase the internal drag which will have an effect on the efficiency of the transmission. <<<<
And I attached the pdf they have sent, which lists lifeguard 6 (page 4, second box from the bottom) plus a long list of eight ATFs, which would be the various names, of how various vehicle manufacturers call that ATF, which would be lifeguard 6. I knew already that BMW calls it BMW Oil No. 8322 0142516, because this is what the sticker on my oil filter says to use (as I used the BMW filter).
And page 6, bottom: ZF recommends an ATF change every 150,000km.
I read already elsewhere, that the normal operational temperature of ATF is around 80°C, and temperatures above that would reduce the lifetime of the ATF.
I got a reply from ZF in Australia. They wrote:
>>>Locally we don’t comment on different types of oils as we can’t really say what the true affect will be on the transmission operation. The lifeguard 6 oil was specially designed for the 6HP transmission and is part of the design package. Using a thicker oil can increase the internal drag which will have an effect on the efficiency of the transmission. <<<<
And I attached the pdf they have sent, which lists lifeguard 6 (page 4, second box from the bottom) plus a long list of eight ATFs, which would be the various names, of how various vehicle manufacturers call that ATF, which would be lifeguard 6. I knew already that BMW calls it BMW Oil No. 8322 0142516, because this is what the sticker on my oil filter says to use (as I used the BMW filter).
And page 6, bottom: ZF recommends an ATF change every 150,000km.
I read already elsewhere, that the normal operational temperature of ATF is around 80°C, and temperatures above that would reduce the lifetime of the ATF.
#23
10-31-2022, 09:19 PM
OK, I think what I read was that transmissions in general run around 80°C, and that general ATFs would degrade above that temperature.
I now read that normal transmission operation ZF 6HP or 8HP transmission is 88–95°C. So I hope that lifeguard 6 had been designed accordingly.
I don't doubt that extreme driving (or extreme outside temps) can result in higher ATF temperatures. I just would expect temps higher than 95°C to degrade the ATF over time prematurely.
And yes: "It never rains in Southern Califonia" - which means, the sun always shines - which means, an external trans-cooler might be an option...
I now read that normal transmission operation ZF 6HP or 8HP transmission is 88–95°C. So I hope that lifeguard 6 had been designed accordingly.
I don't doubt that extreme driving (or extreme outside temps) can result in higher ATF temperatures. I just would expect temps higher than 95°C to degrade the ATF over time prematurely.
And yes: "It never rains in Southern Califonia" - which means, the sun always shines - which means, an external trans-cooler might be an option...
#24
10-31-2022, 09:31 PM
OK, I think what I read was that transmissions in general run around 80°C, and that general ATFs would degrade above that temperature.
I now read that normal transmission operation ZF 6HP or 8HP transmission is 88–95°C. So I hope that lifeguard 6 had been designed accordingly.
I don't doubt that extreme driving (or extreme outside temps) can result in higher ATF temperatures. I just would expect temps higher than 95°C to degrade the ATF over time prematurely.
And yes: "It never rains in Southern Califonia" - which means, the sun always shines - which means, an external trans-cooler might be an option...
I now read that normal transmission operation ZF 6HP or 8HP transmission is 88–95°C. So I hope that lifeguard 6 had been designed accordingly.
I don't doubt that extreme driving (or extreme outside temps) can result in higher ATF temperatures. I just would expect temps higher than 95°C to degrade the ATF over time prematurely.
And yes: "It never rains in Southern Califonia" - which means, the sun always shines - which means, an external trans-cooler might be an option...
#25
10-31-2022, 10:10 PM
#26
11-01-2022, 12:11 AM
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I meant to recommend that you find the latest edition of that document. I'm glad ZF sent it to you. Note the warning in the listing for the ZF 5HP18 transmission, for which two different fluids were used, depending on production range. The same warning applies to most transmissions, which is why I'm so pedantic and insistent on this topic:
I am attaching another helpful document. It specifies a shorter fluid change interval of 80,000 km to 120,000 km if the transmission is subjected to "Many trips at high speeds" or "Sporty driving." This probably applies to most Jaguars, except perhaps the limousines. Regardless, ZF now states that the fluid should be changed "after 8 years at the latest."
Cheers,
Don
Last edited by Don B; 12-02-2022 at 08:57 AM.
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#27
11-02-2022, 10:05 AM
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I just found a fourth ATF to suit the ZF 6hp26, cheap, too, but sadly, it does not help me, because they seem to ship inside of the UK only:
https://www.westwayoils.co.uk/produc...39750794674364
https://www.westwayoils.co.uk/produc...39750794674364
Cheers,
Don
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#28
11-02-2022, 12:11 PM
hi
would not use atf
its not designed for gearboxes with the tcm inside the gearbox and submersed in the trans oils
personally would only use zf lifeguard 6, but it your gearbox, using non oe spec oil always usually ends in tears
mxing different grades of oil is always bad as well, when you drain the trans about 4 litres will stay in the TC, mixing different oils is never good
cheers
Joe
would not use atf
its not designed for gearboxes with the tcm inside the gearbox and submersed in the trans oils
personally would only use zf lifeguard 6, but it your gearbox, using non oe spec oil always usually ends in tears
mxing different grades of oil is always bad as well, when you drain the trans about 4 litres will stay in the TC, mixing different oils is never good
cheers
Joe
#29
11-02-2022, 07:16 PM
Thanks, Don, Good replies, as always.
Joe:
I am not quite sure, what it is you are writing...
1.) ZF lifeguard fluid 6 is an ATF (automatic Transmission fluid). - Thus, if you do not want to use ATF, you also cannot use lifeguard 6...!?
2.) ATF is generally referred to as fluid, not oil.
3.) nobody talks about just releasing a few liters by the sump lid and fill it up again - ZF fluid or not. Read this thread from the top: We are talking about a full flush, and it is not just 4 Liters, which remain in the system, if you do not do a full flush, but much more.
4.) I am not 100% sure, if an automatic transmission can actually be referred to as gearbox - I thought, that is more the term for manual gearboxes...
5.) we are not talking about using anything else but lifeguard 6, which itself is specified to Shell Spec m-1375.4. But thanks to Don's great research, we were able to determine that lifeguard 6 is actually being sold under a few other names as well (read this thread in full!)
Your point that the ATF is for the ZF 6hp26 especially critical, if the TCM itself is submerged in ATF, is a valid point - if that is indeed the case - can someone confirm that this is the case?
Joe:
I am not quite sure, what it is you are writing...
1.) ZF lifeguard fluid 6 is an ATF (automatic Transmission fluid). - Thus, if you do not want to use ATF, you also cannot use lifeguard 6...!?
2.) ATF is generally referred to as fluid, not oil.
3.) nobody talks about just releasing a few liters by the sump lid and fill it up again - ZF fluid or not. Read this thread from the top: We are talking about a full flush, and it is not just 4 Liters, which remain in the system, if you do not do a full flush, but much more.
4.) I am not 100% sure, if an automatic transmission can actually be referred to as gearbox - I thought, that is more the term for manual gearboxes...
5.) we are not talking about using anything else but lifeguard 6, which itself is specified to Shell Spec m-1375.4. But thanks to Don's great research, we were able to determine that lifeguard 6 is actually being sold under a few other names as well (read this thread in full!)
Your point that the ATF is for the ZF 6hp26 especially critical, if the TCM itself is submerged in ATF, is a valid point - if that is indeed the case - can someone confirm that this is the case?
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#30
11-02-2022, 08:07 PM
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#31
11-02-2022, 09:01 PM
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Automatic transmission fluids are made of base oils plus various additives, so they can be accurately referred to as oils, gear oils, lubricants, etc., but they are a specific type of oil called hydraulic fluid, because they are highly incompressible and can be used for transmitting force by hydraulic principles.
Automatic transmissions are cases (boxes) full of gears, so they can accurately be called gearboxes or automatic gearboxes.
Draining and refilling an automatic transmission will replace only a portion of the fluid, since much of the fluid will remain in the torque converter, cooler, valve body and other passages. But draining and refilling with the very same fluid as is already in the transmission is an acceptable practice. It is only when a new fluid of a different brand or manufacturer is used that draining and refilling is not recommended due to possible adverse interactions between the different oils and additives.
Beginning with the ZF 5-speed transmissions, the transmission control module and valve body are combined into an assembly called the Mechatronik (German) or Mechatronic (English), which is mounted to the bottom of the transmission inside the fluid pan. The Mechatronic is always submerged in fluid/oil. Since the ZF 5-, 6-, 8- and 9- speed transmissions all use different fluids, we can assume the Mechatronic/TCM electronics can tolerate fluids with different properties. However, the rest of the transmission components, including the valve body, clutches, gearsets, pump, torque converter, etc. are designed around a fluid with very specific properties. So that's why ZF recommends distinct fluids for each of its different transmissions, which is made crystal clear in the document ZF sent to Peter.
Cheers,
Don
Automatic transmissions are cases (boxes) full of gears, so they can accurately be called gearboxes or automatic gearboxes.
Draining and refilling an automatic transmission will replace only a portion of the fluid, since much of the fluid will remain in the torque converter, cooler, valve body and other passages. But draining and refilling with the very same fluid as is already in the transmission is an acceptable practice. It is only when a new fluid of a different brand or manufacturer is used that draining and refilling is not recommended due to possible adverse interactions between the different oils and additives.
Beginning with the ZF 5-speed transmissions, the transmission control module and valve body are combined into an assembly called the Mechatronik (German) or Mechatronic (English), which is mounted to the bottom of the transmission inside the fluid pan. The Mechatronic is always submerged in fluid/oil. Since the ZF 5-, 6-, 8- and 9- speed transmissions all use different fluids, we can assume the Mechatronic/TCM electronics can tolerate fluids with different properties. However, the rest of the transmission components, including the valve body, clutches, gearsets, pump, torque converter, etc. are designed around a fluid with very specific properties. So that's why ZF recommends distinct fluids for each of its different transmissions, which is made crystal clear in the document ZF sent to Peter.
Cheers,
Don
Last edited by Don B; 11-03-2022 at 12:10 AM.
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#32
11-02-2022, 09:51 PM
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Peter,
While searching unsuccessfully for a Westway M1375.4 MSDS, I happened to come across Fuchs Titan ATF 6006 again, and noticed that Fuchs has updated its specifications for this fluid. It now appears to be a possible substitute for Lifeguard 6. For some reason the Fuchs Australia website does not list it with its other gear oils, but it shows up on the U.S.A. website.
Fuchs claims that it is designed for the ZF 6-speed transmissions (we've heard that before), and I recall having researched it and ruled it out in the past. But the latest MSDS suggests that it is now a possible substitute for LG6. Fuchs does not indicate that it has received M1375.4 or TE-ML 11 approval, but its viscosity is nearly as low as LG6 and it shares some of the same additives as LG6. It may be a lower-risk fluid than the Nulon, if it's available and affordable Down Under.
Fuchs Titan ATF 6006 Product Description
Fuchs Titan ATF MSDS
Another new fluid I ran across is Pentosin ATF 6, which some websites claim is equivalent to Lifeguard 6, while other websites say it was formerly known as ATF 1, which, if I recall correctly, was a Dexron III equivalent. I could not find an MSDS for ATF6, and it is not listed at Pentosin's website, so further research will be required. BTW, as of 2019, Pentosin is owned by Fuchs.
Cheers,
Don
While searching unsuccessfully for a Westway M1375.4 MSDS, I happened to come across Fuchs Titan ATF 6006 again, and noticed that Fuchs has updated its specifications for this fluid. It now appears to be a possible substitute for Lifeguard 6. For some reason the Fuchs Australia website does not list it with its other gear oils, but it shows up on the U.S.A. website.
Fuchs claims that it is designed for the ZF 6-speed transmissions (we've heard that before), and I recall having researched it and ruled it out in the past. But the latest MSDS suggests that it is now a possible substitute for LG6. Fuchs does not indicate that it has received M1375.4 or TE-ML 11 approval, but its viscosity is nearly as low as LG6 and it shares some of the same additives as LG6. It may be a lower-risk fluid than the Nulon, if it's available and affordable Down Under.
Fuchs Titan ATF 6006 Product Description
Fuchs Titan ATF MSDS
Another new fluid I ran across is Pentosin ATF 6, which some websites claim is equivalent to Lifeguard 6, while other websites say it was formerly known as ATF 1, which, if I recall correctly, was a Dexron III equivalent. I could not find an MSDS for ATF6, and it is not listed at Pentosin's website, so further research will be required. BTW, as of 2019, Pentosin is owned by Fuchs.
Cheers,
Don
Last edited by Don B; 11-11-2022 at 01:06 PM.
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#33
11-03-2022, 04:38 AM
Hi Don,
your comment came in just a few hours too late...
Assuming Fuchs Titan ATF 6006 would be just as good as Lifeguard 6, it would be a tick cheaper here than Lifeguard 6.
But just a few hours earlier I decided to bite the bullet and actually order genuine Lifeguard 6 - 20L. I paid AU$525 plus AU$55 postage.
I will dump that brand new Nulon ATF. I dids not drive the S-Type, since I put the Nulon ATF in a few month ago, because it is not yet registered.
Btw.: "Surprisingly" Nulon did not yet reply back to me.
When I find time, I will update the top of this thread, so that no-one else accidentally makes the mistake to use Nulon.
And funny that I did not know that the conglomerate of transmission and TCM is called Mechatronik, even though that is the exact description for what I studied @ uni (Masters degree). But Mechatronik in that sense simply means "Electrical and Mechanical Engineering"...)
X-Type ATF:
2 days ago I tried to get a clearer picture of which ATF is actually supposed to go into my 2006 2.1L X-Type. So far I just figured that the spec should be Ford WSS-M2C922-A1. I think the only really suitable ATF to meet that spec was one, which not available in Australia. I couple of years back I did already an ATF fluid change. I really don't know any more what I was thinking back then - probably that full synthetic ATF sounds good enough... because what I did back then: I put that same Nulon full synthetic into the X-Type transmission, even though that spec is not even listed on the Nulon ATF - not that it would mean anything, if it were listed... However, since I seem to have only the choice of taking the gamble that another Multi-vehicle ATF supplier is for a change providing correct information in claiming that it would meet that Ford spec, and the other choice of leaving the Nulon in there, which surprisingly has kin. viscosity numbers very close to that ATF, which really meets that spec. and which cannot be bought here, I'll probably leave Nulon in the X-Type.
I would love to actually be able to read that Ford spec WSS-M2C922-A1, but that is not freely available - some buggers charge AU$35 to download that spec...
your comment came in just a few hours too late...
Assuming Fuchs Titan ATF 6006 would be just as good as Lifeguard 6, it would be a tick cheaper here than Lifeguard 6.
But just a few hours earlier I decided to bite the bullet and actually order genuine Lifeguard 6 - 20L. I paid AU$525 plus AU$55 postage.
I will dump that brand new Nulon ATF. I dids not drive the S-Type, since I put the Nulon ATF in a few month ago, because it is not yet registered.
Btw.: "Surprisingly" Nulon did not yet reply back to me.
When I find time, I will update the top of this thread, so that no-one else accidentally makes the mistake to use Nulon.
And funny that I did not know that the conglomerate of transmission and TCM is called Mechatronik, even though that is the exact description for what I studied @ uni (Masters degree). But Mechatronik in that sense simply means "Electrical and Mechanical Engineering"...)
X-Type ATF:
2 days ago I tried to get a clearer picture of which ATF is actually supposed to go into my 2006 2.1L X-Type. So far I just figured that the spec should be Ford WSS-M2C922-A1. I think the only really suitable ATF to meet that spec was one, which not available in Australia. I couple of years back I did already an ATF fluid change. I really don't know any more what I was thinking back then - probably that full synthetic ATF sounds good enough...
because what I did back then: I put that same Nulon full synthetic into the X-Type transmission, even though that spec is not even listed on the Nulon ATF - not that it would mean anything, if it were listed... However, since I seem to have only the choice of taking the gamble that another Multi-vehicle ATF supplier is for a change providing correct information in claiming that it would meet that Ford spec, and the other choice of leaving the Nulon in there, which surprisingly has kin. viscosity numbers very close to that ATF, which really meets that spec. and which cannot be bought here, I'll probably leave Nulon in the X-Type. I would love to actually be able to read that Ford spec WSS-M2C922-A1, but that is not freely available - some buggers charge AU$35 to download that spec...
#34
11-03-2022, 09:24 AM
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#35
11-03-2022, 05:33 PM
@ Don: My X-Types have the Jatco JF506E, which I believe is also been referred to as FPD 5-speed automatic.
On another note: ZF of Australia gave me the names of 3 wholesalers of Lifeguard 6 in Australia. I wrote to them all, only one replied, and that one says, they use Toptec 1800 in Liqui Moly. I looked up the MSDS of that one:
https://msds.uapinc.com/msds/PDF/FIC...1800%20ANG.pdf
kin. viscosity: 28.5 (40°C) / 6 (100°C). Reminder: LG6 is 26.8 / 5.6 in line with spec m-1375.4. This means, you can't trust wholesalers either - which are the ones passing on that incorrect information to the shops and mechanics. The wholesaler says, "their" mechanics use that - I replied (in more technical detail): Good that I never ever bring any of my 10 cars to a mechanic...
Meanwhile I also received a reply for ZF in Germany, where I asked in German for their insight into ATFs for the ZF 6hp26. No new information from them. They also just sent my the TE-ML11 Lubricant List (in the German version). Btw: You can go to
https://aftermarket.zf.com/en/afterm...on/lubricants/
And always find the latest TE-ML11 lubricant list and if you have a preference for any specific language, there is plenty of choice. Also, if you are looking for a lubricant for your truck, tractor or electric vehicle, you might find it there as well.
On another note: ZF of Australia gave me the names of 3 wholesalers of Lifeguard 6 in Australia. I wrote to them all, only one replied, and that one says, they use Toptec 1800 in Liqui Moly. I looked up the MSDS of that one:
https://msds.uapinc.com/msds/PDF/FIC...1800%20ANG.pdf
kin. viscosity: 28.5 (40°C) / 6 (100°C). Reminder: LG6 is 26.8 / 5.6 in line with spec m-1375.4. This means, you can't trust wholesalers either - which are the ones passing on that incorrect information to the shops and mechanics. The wholesaler says, "their" mechanics use that - I replied (in more technical detail): Good that I never ever bring any of my 10 cars to a mechanic...
Meanwhile I also received a reply for ZF in Germany, where I asked in German for their insight into ATFs for the ZF 6hp26. No new information from them. They also just sent my the TE-ML11 Lubricant List (in the German version). Btw: You can go to
https://aftermarket.zf.com/en/afterm...on/lubricants/
And always find the latest TE-ML11 lubricant list and if you have a preference for any specific language, there is plenty of choice. Also, if you are looking for a lubricant for your truck, tractor or electric vehicle, you might find it there as well.
Last edited by Peter_of_Australia; 11-03-2022 at 05:48 PM. Reason: more info
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#36
11-03-2022, 06:10 PM
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I would be surprised if Idemitsu doesn't make a correct fluid for the JF506E, and they may even be the OEM fluidmaker (They're an OEM for Aisin-Warner). Idemitsu fluids should be available in Australia.
Ravenol makes an ATF JF506E. Pentosin and LiquiMoly typically offer fluids for Audis & VWs, so they would be worth researching.
Cheers,
Don
Last edited by Don B; 11-03-2022 at 10:55 PM.
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#37
11-03-2022, 07:28 PM
Thanks Don, yes, I don't think that you have the 2.1L X-Type in the US, Which is why - when I search on the Idemitsu US website for lubricants (there no AUS Indemitsu website) and I look for my ATF - I cannot select the 2.1L X-Type, only 3.0L. Nevertheless I was able to find out that my ATF would nee Idemitsu K17 or Type J. Both not available in AUS. Yes, Ravenol ATF JF506E would be good - but so far I could not spot anywhere in AUS, where to buy it, but I just contacted Ravenol AUS about it. And as said: I do not trust any multi vehicle ATF anymore after that disastrously Nulon experience...
#38
11-09-2022, 06:02 AM
Hi Don,
I wrote a summary (which I intend to have "planted" into my original thread at the top).
Please check, if you agree with that:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
WHICH ATF TO USE?
Easy Question? No!
Clear answer: Yes! But it takes a lot of words to explain:
Everything between those chevrons here and below is a new updated entry, entered about 2.5 weeks after the initial thread was written. Because initially I thought the Australian made Nulon Full synthetic ATF would be suitable, which I found after long research. However, the long discussion after my original thread with Don B resulted in me recognizing and accepting that I wasted a lot of time and money, as Nulon ATF is definitely not suitable, despite Nulon’s claims on the packaging. They have a very long list of ATFs on their Nulon ATF, which they claim can be replaced by their Nulon ATF, including lifeguard 6. But regardless of their fantasy-claims Nulon is not suitable.
I just filled all that new Nulon ATF into my S-Type. But I see now that I have to dump it again and I have to use Lifeguard 6, which I ordered already.
Don B made a lot of research over time, which ATF can be used, and which not. I figured out a few more details, but at the end of the day it means for me in Australia, that I have to buy Lifeguard 6. This is the MSDS of lifeguard 6:
https://aftermarket.zf.com/remotemed...s-20190219.pdf
It is made according to specification Shell m-1375.4
The S-Type transmission is ZF 6hp26. The following document from ZF shows on page 4 what can be used as ATF for 6hp26:
https://aftermarket.zf.com/remotemed...e-ml-11-en.pdf
The ATF to be used is Lifeguard 6, and there are 9 other P/Ns listed, which would be simply Lifeguard 6, but rebranded as the ATF of various vehicle manufacturers.
As Don pointed out correctly, ATFs are defined by many parameters, and each ATF is a mix of secret chemicals designed for specific transmission. But one of the important parameters is the kinematic viscosity @ 40C and @ 100C (in short from here on: KV40 and KV100).
Lifeguard 6 (in line with spec m-1375.4) has KV40 = 26.8 / KV100 = 5.6
Over time, Don found 2 more suitable ATF for 6hp26, namely:
Mercon SP and Shell Spirax S4 ATF MSP
Also, I may have found another option: Westway M1375.4, but that does not help me, as they refuse to send their product out of the UK. Do you own research, before deciding this ATF is for you (i.e. compare with m-1375.4).
And Don may also have found another option: Fuchs Titan ATF 6006 – but again, do your own further research on that ATF. MSDS: KV40 = 28.5 / KV100 = 6.
The Nulon ATF, which I used, has – according to product information KV40 = 33.4 / KV100 = 7 and according to their MSDS KV40 = 37, and no info reg. KV100. So there is quite a bit of uncertainty already, what the KV of Nulon is to start with, but it most definitely does not meet m-1375.4 (as looking at this single characteristic alone shows), and claiming it can be used instead of lifeguard 6 is therefore untrue. Btw: Nulon even claims that their ATF can substitute both: lifeguard 5 and lifeguard 6, which are obviously 2 different products made to 2 different specifications. (lifeguard 5: KV40 = 37). I also wrote all those facts to Nulon – to reply at all. If they were convinced that their product is legit, they would have defended their product – but they know exactly…
And as the requirement for the transmission ZF 6hp26 is very specific, it is unlikely/impossible that any multi-vehicle ATF would be suitable for this transmission, regardless of their claims: Any multivehicle ATF would be different to Lifeguard 6. I asked ZF of Australia for a source of Lifeguard 6. They gave me 3 whole-saler names. Only one replied. And that one told me that they sell their mechanics some other ATF, because that is cheaper than Lifeguard 6. They send their mechanics "Liqui Moly Toptec 1800". I checked the MSDS: KV40 = 28.5 / KV100 = 6. Yes, quite a bit cheaper, but not in line with m-1375.4... the KV is 6-7% higher than on lifeguard 6.
Summary: So there are not many options for the correct ATF for ZF 6hp26, and in Australia Lifeguard 6 is more or less the only option. But what you can do is find the cheapest seller of genuine Lifeguard in Australia: The most expensive is about AU$1000 for 20L – I got it for a bit more than half of that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And Don: I just got around checking KV for Fuchs titan 6006 - it is the same as Liqui Moli toptec 1800: MSDS: KV40 = 28.5 / KV100 = 6.
Lifeguard 6 is 26.8 / 5.6. And all the other parameters? So are Fuchs and Liqui Moly good enough to replace Lifeguard 6?
I wrote a summary (which I intend to have "planted" into my original thread at the top).
Please check, if you agree with that:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
WHICH ATF TO USE?
Easy Question? No!
Clear answer: Yes! But it takes a lot of words to explain:
Everything between those chevrons here and below is a new updated entry, entered about 2.5 weeks after the initial thread was written. Because initially I thought the Australian made Nulon Full synthetic ATF would be suitable, which I found after long research. However, the long discussion after my original thread with Don B resulted in me recognizing and accepting that I wasted a lot of time and money, as Nulon ATF is definitely not suitable, despite Nulon’s claims on the packaging. They have a very long list of ATFs on their Nulon ATF, which they claim can be replaced by their Nulon ATF, including lifeguard 6. But regardless of their fantasy-claims Nulon is not suitable.
I just filled all that new Nulon ATF into my S-Type. But I see now that I have to dump it again and I have to use Lifeguard 6, which I ordered already.
Don B made a lot of research over time, which ATF can be used, and which not. I figured out a few more details, but at the end of the day it means for me in Australia, that I have to buy Lifeguard 6. This is the MSDS of lifeguard 6:
https://aftermarket.zf.com/remotemed...s-20190219.pdf
It is made according to specification Shell m-1375.4
The S-Type transmission is ZF 6hp26. The following document from ZF shows on page 4 what can be used as ATF for 6hp26:
https://aftermarket.zf.com/remotemed...e-ml-11-en.pdf
The ATF to be used is Lifeguard 6, and there are 9 other P/Ns listed, which would be simply Lifeguard 6, but rebranded as the ATF of various vehicle manufacturers.
As Don pointed out correctly, ATFs are defined by many parameters, and each ATF is a mix of secret chemicals designed for specific transmission. But one of the important parameters is the kinematic viscosity @ 40C and @ 100C (in short from here on: KV40 and KV100).
Lifeguard 6 (in line with spec m-1375.4) has KV40 = 26.8 / KV100 = 5.6
Over time, Don found 2 more suitable ATF for 6hp26, namely:
Mercon SP and Shell Spirax S4 ATF MSP
Also, I may have found another option: Westway M1375.4, but that does not help me, as they refuse to send their product out of the UK. Do you own research, before deciding this ATF is for you (i.e. compare with m-1375.4).
And Don may also have found another option: Fuchs Titan ATF 6006 – but again, do your own further research on that ATF. MSDS: KV40 = 28.5 / KV100 = 6.
The Nulon ATF, which I used, has – according to product information KV40 = 33.4 / KV100 = 7 and according to their MSDS KV40 = 37, and no info reg. KV100. So there is quite a bit of uncertainty already, what the KV of Nulon is to start with, but it most definitely does not meet m-1375.4 (as looking at this single characteristic alone shows), and claiming it can be used instead of lifeguard 6 is therefore untrue. Btw: Nulon even claims that their ATF can substitute both: lifeguard 5 and lifeguard 6, which are obviously 2 different products made to 2 different specifications. (lifeguard 5: KV40 = 37). I also wrote all those facts to Nulon – to reply at all. If they were convinced that their product is legit, they would have defended their product – but they know exactly…
And as the requirement for the transmission ZF 6hp26 is very specific, it is unlikely/impossible that any multi-vehicle ATF would be suitable for this transmission, regardless of their claims: Any multivehicle ATF would be different to Lifeguard 6. I asked ZF of Australia for a source of Lifeguard 6. They gave me 3 whole-saler names. Only one replied. And that one told me that they sell their mechanics some other ATF, because that is cheaper than Lifeguard 6. They send their mechanics "Liqui Moly Toptec 1800". I checked the MSDS: KV40 = 28.5 / KV100 = 6. Yes, quite a bit cheaper, but not in line with m-1375.4... the KV is 6-7% higher than on lifeguard 6.
Summary: So there are not many options for the correct ATF for ZF 6hp26, and in Australia Lifeguard 6 is more or less the only option. But what you can do is find the cheapest seller of genuine Lifeguard in Australia: The most expensive is about AU$1000 for 20L – I got it for a bit more than half of that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And Don: I just got around checking KV for Fuchs titan 6006 - it is the same as Liqui Moli toptec 1800: MSDS: KV40 = 28.5 / KV100 = 6.
Lifeguard 6 is 26.8 / 5.6. And all the other parameters? So are Fuchs and Liqui Moly good enough to replace Lifeguard 6?
Last edited by Peter_of_Australia; 11-09-2022 at 07:28 AM.
#39
11-09-2022, 01:55 PM
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#40
11-09-2022, 06:00 PM
Hi Don,
thanks. I don't tweak nor twitter... I am more of an email-guy.
Thanks for putting it in the original thread on top, but I thought I should discuss with you the punchline of it all and correct it accordingly and post it then...:
So which ATF to use?: Lifeguard 6 and those other two you found, which are the same under a different name, and maybe Westway...
But is there a cheaper alternative, which is definitely suitable for ZF 6hp26?
Regarding KV "your" Fuchs Titan ATF 6006 and "my" "Liqui Moly Toptec 1800" are the same: KV40 = 28.5 / KV100 = 6.
That is 6-7% more than lifeguard 6 ( KV40 = 26.8 / KV100 = 5.6).
...and of course there are all the other parameters...
So: Are those 2 the same and can those 2 be used for ZF 6hp26?
I have ordered now - and it will possibly arrive today - 20L of Lifeguard 6. It was about half the price of what the most expensive seller wanted for it in Australia.
But if I would go for Liqui Moly, it would again be about half price of what I paid now.
thanks. I don't tweak nor twitter... I am more of an email-guy.
Thanks for putting it in the original thread on top, but I thought I should discuss with you the punchline of it all and correct it accordingly and post it then...:
So which ATF to use?: Lifeguard 6 and those other two you found, which are the same under a different name, and maybe Westway...
But is there a cheaper alternative, which is definitely suitable for ZF 6hp26?
Regarding KV "your" Fuchs Titan ATF 6006 and "my" "Liqui Moly Toptec 1800" are the same: KV40 = 28.5 / KV100 = 6.
That is 6-7% more than lifeguard 6 ( KV40 = 26.8 / KV100 = 5.6).
...and of course there are all the other parameters...
So: Are those 2 the same and can those 2 be used for ZF 6hp26?
I have ordered now - and it will possibly arrive today - 20L of Lifeguard 6. It was about half the price of what the most expensive seller wanted for it in Australia.
But if I would go for Liqui Moly, it would again be about half price of what I paid now.