Well, I hit 100,000 miles in my S-type (the one I acquired at 65k, nearly one year ago >_<) and recently, it's developed a terrifying problem that I think may be the same one that people refer to as the downshifting squawk.

However, its appearance was rather co-incidental with me having to stress the transmission - and the fact that the gearbox trouble light does not illuminate, nor does the squawking occur going up in gear, not just down, I am wondering.

Normal acceleration shift patterns are present, even with the 'S' mode adjust is engaged, so shift-points are as normal going up into 4th into 5th, and up into 6th as I get into cruising gear. The problem happens when I need to down-shift from 6->4 for passing gear - also, where it gets terrifying.

When the shifting occurs, it squawks or squeals, the tach flies up to almost red-line, and then falls back to about 2500 rpm, then up past the shift point, at which point it lurches into gear and does as normal.

Aside from the fact that I am truly thankful for leather seats now, and the fact that the gearbox fault light does not illuminate, and it does not shudder or grind or clatter, is this what one would call the squawk of yore?

When I bought the car, it had what I mistakenly assumed to be a minor leak, and after I drove it from Houston, TX to Columbus, OH and back, did a full drain and replace on the fluid - this was at about 78,000 miles. No problems since then except it makes a sort of gutteral whine about 30 miles per hour, and again as it hovers around the 4->5 shift point, about 50-55 mph. If I hold it there, it will make that wooshing-whine noise (damn difficult to explain these noises, you know) until I either accelerate, forcing it to up shift or back off and cruise.

When I did that (previous posts detail it) I was concerned that I drained dramatically less fluid than should have been in there - I drained about 4L or so out, instead of the expected 8 or 9 that people indicated would be okay, so all in all a net loss of anywhere from 3 to 5 quarts of fluid out of the leak. Since then, and until this recent instance, it's been fine, even if it's started to get kind of sluggish when moving from park, like a drunken lag if you will to get moving.

So, understandably, when I had to make a very quick and hasty exit from a situation recently, going from park to drive to floored, I wonder if I burnt out a clutchpack, or solenoid, or valve - techs, any ideas? I haven't driven it since I parked it after this incident.

What I think is possible here, after reading:

1 - The fluid flush with ZF's Lifeguard 6 fluid didn't have the "liquid gold" additive that people say fixes it, thus needing more;
2 - The added strain on the transmission of low fluid for such a long drive accelerated the clutchpack wear to a critical point;
3 - Cold-stress of the transmission propelled item #2 into criticality, past which point #1 would have helped.

Combined with the fact that the front struts are worn out, it needs the oil pan gasket repaired (again, why the hell does the oil pan cross the front axle?), and thanks to its previous owner, I still don't have a proper title, because I can't get one. The state says there's a lien, won't release it, the bank doesn't know what the state is talking about, and the previous owner can't recall a damn thing because she had a stroke. Oh, and it needs a new DCCV - love ice cold A/C, but not in the middle of winter.

So should I file this vehicle under Class A, Cluster F, find someone to bless with its problems, and run? A buddy of mine has a '95 XJR he did the engine and transmission rebuild on and he wants to swap me the S-type for it. I'm seriously thinking about it.

Opinions?

 

Does your friend know about the problems with the s type? If he does and still wants to swap what's wrong with his car? If he doesn't know about the problems he won't be a friend for long.

Maybe do a bit more research before buying your next car

 

I would not do anything until the title mess is figured out.

How can you even register the car if you can't get a title?
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You do not have the classic "ZF squawk". You have a more serious issue. Could be low in fluid. Could be worn-out clutch packs. Could be a dying transmission. Not enough info at this point to accurately speculate....

By the way, you'll never get 8 or 9 litres of original ATF out of the ZF 6HP26 unless you suck it out with a flush machine (not a good idea in my opinion - the risk of a flush in these transmissions overrides the potential reward). A typical drain-and-fill gets 5 to 6 litres of old fluid out of the unit. Maybe close to 7 litres if you allow it to drain overnight....

 

I suppose the best question would be, what failures or problems with the pattern I described -not- illuminate the gearbox fault light ?

Any ideas? From what I can understand, the box lights the fault lamp on only serious, disabling problems, otherwise goes into limp-home mode?

Jon89, thank you for your time in responding - I appreciate the positive and constructive nature of your reply.

 

At a guess there will be many cases where the light won't come on. You look to have one that's new or rare here. Maybe short on fluid or the TC won't lock up or ... well, I don't know. Do you know that it's properly filled? Have you got the most recent software in both TCM & PCM?

 

JagV8: I need to check it, and was planning to take it to Markus at the shop in Midtown this week, but for now, here is a video that shows the tach and the noise. Any further ideas?

 

Jake

The 6HP26 is a fine transmission, but sealed. The projected life is supposed to be 100,000 miles before major service or replacement. Since you got the car at 65K you don't know how it was treated before.

The Majik Potion from ZF is Lifeguard 1, it's still out there but a bit harder to find. Google ZF dealers. I'll include a good one below.

A precautionary fluid/pan includes filter/gasket/sleeve at 50k is most likely a good way to add life to this application. I know it's not much help to you, but maybe we can help others that might read this post.

The procedure for filling this box is a bit more involved and seems to result in under or over filling quite often. Neither are good. Both result in foaming which can and usually will end in tears with a rebuild or new box in the cards.

The title mess needs fixing before anything expensive should be done.

As a survivor of a recent transmission saga I feel you pain.

Good Luck

Robert

Top Tier Gasoline

The CTSC - ZF parts

 

That doesn't sound like the classic squeal or hoot at all. Did you let off the gas which allowed the RPM to fall, or is that the car doing it?

 

OK, now that I've had a look underneath - pictures attached - a few things come to mind.

When I did the drain/refill/new pan/new bolt procedure back in December, I also bought a new mechatronic sleeve, and did not install it for reasons I cannot now recall. The pictures indicate to me (and also one that was too fuzzy of the mechatronic plug) that perhaps it is leaking in addition to the oil pan leak, and the remains of the power steering line incident.

Which brings me to ask the question... Is it normal to have a hose, about 18" long, that ends in a cap, that when that cap oh, say, gets abraded or torn off on the road, results in a complete voiding of the power steering reservoir? It was just -there-, tucked up into the frame, and I'd noticed it before, but about 30,000 miles ago, I was driving and pulled off into a gas station to fuel up, and realized I had no power steering, and there was a red flood underneath the car, out and up over the roadway where I exited.

An hour later, after a quart of Dexron, a 2" bolt, and some hose clamps, it was refilled and going again, but as I cannot readily tell the difference between the fluids (other than knowing that LG6 smells like rancid cat spray and I never want to be covered in it again) that perhaps:

- The mechatronic sleeve leaks, and has been leaking significantly, or for a very, very long time;
- I may not have filled it completely when I serviced it in December;
- The noise and accompanying RPM gain/loss is due to low fluid
- Bolt torque insufficient causing leakage around the pan lip

I have found pools of tan fluid that smells faintly reminiscent of said rancid cat-spray pocketed up into the bolts and around elsewhere, and especially in the immediate proximity of the now-non-present rubber flap-gasket covering the access to the flywheel in the housing - props to my wonderful partner who tugged and pulled it completely off.

Ideas?

 

Well, I take that back - I'll use it anyway

1stJag - thank you for the information, and the links; I bought the supplies to do the last service from the CTSC - those guys rock. It's hard to find an outfit that truly does one thing well in any industry, and to see the guys at CTSC filling a need and doing well at it makes me happy.

 

Always glad to help out, I was just the first to see it . There are a lot of willing and knowledgeable folks in these forums.

Good Luck but you're on the right track. Check things often and ask questions. You'll do just fine.

Cheers Robert

Klaus is a good guy and knows his onions...

 

Finally managed to get the beast up in the air enough to check the level in the transmission. I have had a sneaking suspicion that it's been leaking fluid out of the front or rear seals, and it ended up taking roughly a liter of fluid, after which a warm-up and full drive cycle showed no indication of further problem.

Just a note to mention this. Thanks for all who responded, and a reminder to make sure you fill the damn thing properly when you drain and refill it - leaks or no leaks, low fluid makes these things act weird evidently.

 

Yep, I've been told by a trusted source that once these ZF boxes lose more than two litres of fluid, they can implode very quickly....