Howdy Jaguar Fam,

2006 S-Type, V8 4.2

I’m dealing with a crank and no start problem. It was sudden. I started the car, it did its usually high RPM then on it’s way to settle at idle is stumbled, stuttered, and died. Tried to restart, cranked, started for a second, then died again. Now just a crank and no fuel pressure. About a year ago the fuse to the fuel pump blew (F47/15Amp). I replaced it and it never seemed like it was an issue so I moved on with life.

Since then I replaced the fuel pump expecting that it was needed. With 147XXX miles I had just figured it was about that time. I also replaced the fuel filter.

I put everything back together and to my surprise no start.

I checked the:
1. inertia switch - All Good
2. F4 fuse in the passenger footwell - All Good
3. R15 Relay and swapped it - All Good
4. F47 (15 amp) - All Good
5. PATs check. - All Good (I think)

Still no fuel pressure, crank and no start. What else should I be thinking about?

@kr98664 Karl, you’ve helped me in the past. You’re a wealth of knowledge, and I hope you have some ideas. This is another weird one.

 

Probably not the problem as I expect you are more careful than me, but when I changed the fuel pump out, the ball valve fell out and the pump would run but there would be no pressure. For some reason, the new pump looked like it had a NRV built-in so I wasn't initially worried. I was wrong. Replacing the metal ball valve fixed it.

I have a description of it on the other forum (pointer in step 14): https://www.jaguarforum.com/threads/...inners.130129/

 

@neilr Thanks for the heads-up. The odd thing was that I have a different fuel pump. The pump that I have had a slightly different housing. It’s essentially the same fuel pump that the XF uses. Not sure if the reason is that the 2006 manufacturing date was too close to the XF date?

This car though. It’s relentless when it complains!

 

Based on your description of the condition, and the diagnostic steps you've taken, it's most likely a failed fuel pump.

 

@NBCat - So you think the fuel pump that I purchased and installed was Dead on Arrival (DOA)? That would be pretty annoying. I read about the REM, in the chance that I didn’t properly diagnose the problem and just did the ignorant fix which was to slap parts on it.

I there a proper method to prime the system? Or will the pump apply enough pressure to ensure that there isn’t any air lock?

 

Fuel pressure is determined by the PCM/ECM based on input from various sensors.

There is no priming of the system needed.

To monitor fuel pressure, use a smart phone with the Torque app to connect to the PCM/ECM with a Bluetooth interface via the OBD port. With the ignition in the ON position, prior to engaging the starter, there should be around 3 bar (300 kPa) of pressure.

 

Please 'splain how you tested the relay. Did you take it out, held it up to the light, and proclaimed it good? Or did you give it the Karl-O-Rific™ click test? I'm not especially concerned about the relay itself, as it is easy to swap with a known-good unit. I'm more concerned if the relay is getting the signal to actuate, i.e. the famous click test. Even this world famous click test does NOT confirm the relay is actually sending power downstream, only that is it receiving the signal to do so.

Next thought: Have you listened for the pump? You want the cabin as quiet as possible. Close the windows, turn off the HVAC, and even fasten your seatbelt to silence the chime. Turn the key to Run (not start) and listen for the hum under the back seat. The pump should run for a couple of seconds to pressurize the system. If you can't hear it, lift up the bottom cushion of the rear seat and try again. Two latches at the front edge and then you can tip it up. If you do hear the pump run, then you know the electrical side is good.

If you can't hear the pump, there are two more fuses you did not mention:

F23 in the trunk
F20 in the Primary Junction Panel (front passenger footwell)

 

Hey @kr98664 ! Thanks for the response. I’m reporting back with some new updates.

I did the good’ol click test and also switched the relay with an exact relay near by. It definitely passes the click test. I did confirm that it’s sending power downstream by testing the voltage on pin 3-4 on the fuel pump connector. It measured at 12v+. I believe that power is getting to the pump.


I also tested the resistance on pins 3 & 4 going to the pump and it measured at .6 ohms. I think that would lead me to believe that the pump is defective. It’s a new fuel pump - DOA. I’m guessing. I’m going to open everything back up make sure that I didn’t forget to plug anything in, but I’m pretty certain at this point that I have a defective pump. Which is super annoying.




Both F20 and F23 were good. Also, the D1 diode was also within in range.

The only thing that I didn’t measure at this point is the connection between the REM to the fuel pump. At this point does anyone think it’s necessary to pull all of that apart given that I’m getting 12v to the connector and resistance on the pump?

Any other thoughts or ideas at this point?

 

One word of caution here. We don't know what normal specs should be for resistance. If the circuit was open, yes that would be bad. But 0.6 ohms may be okay on the electrical side, but the pump is mechanically jammed for reasons unknown. That would be something of a moot point, as you'd still have to replace the pump.

Did you ever hear the pump run when the key is initially turned to Run? I want to make sure we're not in the situation of the pump itself operating okay, but a line is loose inside the tank or a check valve isn't seating.

 

0.6 ohm may be the "stall" value (i.e. pump not moving). If so it would increase when pumping (due to "back EMF").

It doesn't prove whether pump is defective or not, AFAIK.

 

@kr98664 you raise a good point about the jamming of the fuel line. I did put in a new fuel filter under the beliefs that I could start fresh, but it didn’t occur to me that the line could be blocked, collapsed, or crimped. I’ll take a look at that maybe this evening. Perhaps just blowing it out.

On a side note I realized that the dealership sold me part number XR852872, but after some additional poking around I believe the part number that should have been fitted to the car should be XR852870. Can anyone here tell me the difference between the two? When comparing them visually they look the same with the exception that one has a white top, and the other (as well as the original) has a green top.

Regarding the resistance... I was under the impression if the resistance was above .5 it was considered to be bad, but in the case of below that means that it’s actually considered in range:



I supposed I misread - moving too quickly I suppose.

I have the new (potentially DOA) pump boxed up and ready to ship back, but I might try bench testing it.

I suppose my next move will be testing the actual line for blockages, and then bench testing the pump. Although, I’m not an expert at bench testing. Does anyone have any pointers there other than not blowing myself up? Just proper polarity and strait to 12Vs? I don’t have one of those nifty probes.

@JagV8 - Thanks for the thoughts.

 

I wasn't thinking of a line being blocked, although that could definitely be a problem. I was thinking more like a line coming loose, especially on the side opposite the electric pump. This would let normal pump output dump back into the tank, instead of going to the injectors. Take a look at this thread, showing an octopus family playing Twister in the left side of the tank:

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...estion-266566/

This was on an early model, but I think later models are similar.

The big question, still unanswered: Do you hear the pump running when the key is first turned to Run? This is an important detail, and will determine the next steps in troubleshooting.


You can research OEM part numbers here:

https://parts.jaguarlandroverclassic.../brand/jaguar/

I'd let the removed pump dry out for a couple of days, so you're not dealing with gasoline fumes. Use test jumpers so you can make the final connection away from the pump, in case of any sparks. If the pump runs, only do so briefly as normal cooling comes from being submerged in the tank.

 

If the part numbers are in question go to Jaguar parts and put your VIN in and see which pump is correct? Now both might be OK depending on what Jaguar did.
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you can duty cycle the pump with a scan tool

just make sure the rem is trying to cycle the pump, if yes change the pump. if no go figure it out

 

Hi All, I'm reporting back because I know how much you love it when someone goes dark. I chased around a bunch of stuff, but still no dice on this turd.

I finally picked up one of those mongoose clones. I installed SDD and I'm going to read up on how to use it and track down this problem. This car has been stationary in my garage since mid december as I haven't had much time to monkey around with it. I'll let you all know how it goes tomorrow and hopefully be able to report something useful.

 

Glad to hear you haven’t given up.

Still unanswered:

Can you hear the fuel pump run? When you first turn the key on, before even engaging the starter, the pump runs briefly to pressurize the injector rail. Confirming this is an important preliminary troubleshooting step, so please let us know.

Turn off the radio and HVAC system so the cabin is as quiet as possible. If you still can’t hear the pump, lift up the bottom of the rear seat. Two latches at the front and it lifts right up.

 

@kr98664 - A blessing and a curse. I rarely give up. To answer your question:

No. I don’t hear anything from the fuel pump when turning the key to the 2 position. I have a brand new pump sitting outside of the fuel tank, but plugged into the harness and no sounds. I did figure out how to get SDD up and running using a mangoose clone that I was able to borrow from a friend. I also ran the fuel system primer test in the recommendations tab and heard nothing.

In addition to that, I did some REM monitoring and this is what I found:



Voltage looks strong at 14.2 volts



I believe this is code B1201 & B2627. I’m not entirely sure what this means, but it doesn’t seem like it’s a good thing. If someone could help me understand what this means that would be great.

In addition to all of this though. I’ve found something else. I’m also not sure what this means. Code B1352 “Key-in circuit Failure” and also “Ignition key-in Circuit Failure”

See the following:


Would love everyone’s thoughts. This hasn’t been an easy one. My intuitions lead me to think that it’s a REM, but I’m a novice.

I should also add, that voltage seems to be fine. 14.2 volts on the battery via a charging device/tender.

 

I went back to the start of this thread. Oh sure, the kids have all grown up since then and raised families of their own, but I vaguely remember the situation. You had replaced a functioning pump basically “just because”. Now the new one isn’t running at all. This new one is possibly defective out of the box.

Do you still have the old pump, the one which had been working? If so, I’d gamble on reinstalling it and see if it will run. Lazy as I am, I’d bench test it first before installation.

If the old pump has been discarded, have you tested the new one (on the workbench) as described in post #12? In post #8, you mentioned having good power at the pump connector, so all signs (including the timeline) point to the new pump being dead.

Please note I didn’t suggest rushing out to buy another new pump. Bench test the present pump, and the old one if still available. It’s easy to condemn the most expensive part in the system (REM) but nothing is pointing at that yet.

 

push the yellow finger button

that's output state control

 

These buttons? Which one as there are 3?



Can you explain what the output state control is? I have never used those buttons and don't know how to use them?
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