Went for mandatory emission test yesterday and they said It wont pass test. The check engine light has been on so they cant read my emissions. I can get a conditional pass but im pretty sure the car would pass emissions test the old school way with the dyno and exhaust readers. They changed it a little more than a year ago here in Ontario which makes their old school way of checking emissions obsolete. Anyone know if they still do it with the exhaust readers anywhere in Ontario or if the p1633 code can easily be cleared ?

 

Welcome to Ontario's ridiculous 'Drive Clean' program! I've ranted ad nauseam about it separately and it's unfortunate that more and more provinces and states are also now using the OBDII system as a pass/fail for pollution testing. The system was never designed for such usage and unfortunately the average driver and his wallet gets caught in the middle.

You cannot get a pass with the CEL illuminated, don't bother even showing up for the test. No testing station will use the tail pipe sniffers and give you a pass, irrespective of what's coming out which might just be cleaner than distilled angel's farts.

Putting pollution testing aside, driving around with the CEL illuminated is not a good idea. Although some codes might point to a minor or benign issue, there's no additional warnings if and when a big nasty engine-killer code appears.

Have your car serviced to fix the P1366 or P1633, make sure it and no other bad codes reappears and then ensure that the car has successfully completed it's self-test routine. Code P1111 will appear indicating this and the test station will be looking for it.

Good luck and remember that in our last election, Tim Hudak promised to scrap the Drive Clean program. Smart idea, too bad he screwed up the rest of his platform.

 

P1633 (I can't fond the other one so I assume P1633 is what you meant) is a code set when the PCM sees a bad 12 volt supply.

My first rule when dealing with weird electrical issues is check the battery. Even if you just changed the battery, check it. Then you should check all the powers to the ECM, to do this, first make sure all your fuses are ok, check them with a voltmeter not a test light to make sure that you have no voltage feedback. Then clean the grounds around the ECM (I know the problem is power but you'd be suprised). Then if all is ok is time to check the wires at the ECM. And lastly suspect an ECM.

Let us know and best of luck!

 

My mistake I meant p1633. They need to check the emissions how they used to or scrap the whole thing all together. Ecm under the hood ?

 

Thanks for the quick replies guys. After checking every fuse and placing a new battery in it appears the problem is the computer anyone know the location of it?

 

It really isn't at all likely to be that. Work out if you want to DIY or else find someone who understands cars made in the last 30 or so years. Do NOT go messing with any module unless you know what, why, etc as it gets very expensive very fast and is likely to make things worse.

 

I don't see why you think it's not suitable? Any working car will simply pass. A fail means the car isn't working properly and is polluting. What is your issue with those?

 

Not necessarily. I could bet any money the car would pass the emission test that checked the actual pollutants coming out of the exhaust. That way is no longer used so its an odb2 test which is wat it should be called. I obviously overloaded a fuse, relay or fried the cpu some what but the car still performs normally besides the driver seat which won't adjust. Wish I had known they changed it to an odb2 test rather then looking into this a few weeks before my sticker expires. Was thinking of swapping the ecu but I guess this should be dealt with by the dealer. Never thought I'd need the dealership for a sticker but I read somewhere dealer can clear this code so hopefully this is the case.

 

Most any OBDII diagnostic reader can clear DTCs.
You will need to perform a drive cycle to get the readiness set again.

My problem with OBDII only test is that a fault might occur sometime in the past (like a small amount of water in the fuel and misfire for a few minutes) and the DTCs are set.

The engine now runs perfectly and has for some time BUT the engine light is ON and you will NOT pass the OBDII emission test. Not because the engine is polluting but the engine MIL is ON.

bob gauff

 

The "emissions test" you mean is something like a gas anaylsis of the exhaust I expect. Very crude and misses many very serious pollution issues, whereas OBD II is very thorough under almost all mixes of engine load, speed, etc. That's why it's used.

OBD II / EOBD certainly needs improving for diesel cars but that's a whole separate story!

 

What you describe would need to be very recent because otherwise the MIL is turned back off automatically and later on the code is deleted. So, the car shows it is not polluting and will pass.

The misfires would also have had to occur on 2 separate drives, under similar circumstances, which water in fuel might or might not manage.

As I expect you know, but some others may not, this behaviour is legally required as part of OBD II in USA, EU (includes UK), where it's known as EOBD, and I expect Canada (I know less about Canada).

 

We've debated it before. The lack of P1111 does NOT necessarily mean a car is polluting. As always, the devil is in the detail.

Since inception of the change in the regulations, the 'failure' rate during the smog test has almost doubled. Very few/none of these vehicles are actually breaking any pollution limit, they just don't have a P1111 (and only a P1111) present at the time of the test. The reasons why are known here but having people drive around the countryside hoping it appears creates needless pollution.

A little out of date:

Drive Clean test failure rate on the rise as profits from program under scrutiny | CTV Toronto News

 

No, please stop. Your assumptions are incorrect.

Guessing at how the car works and what might need changing is rarely successful and can be very expensive, possibly more than the car is worth.

It is possible that there's nothing wrong with the car and it just has an old code in memory that's no longer applicable.

If you don't have an OBDII tool, have your local garage erase the code then drive the car for a week or so. Have the garage then re-interrogate the system. If the code P1111 shows up and nothing else, your car is fine and will now pass the Drive Clean.

If P1000 and nothing else shows up, the on board self test systems have not yet finished. Keep driving the car and be sure that at some point that there is less than 3/4 but more than 1/4 tank of fuel on board. The EVAP test will not complete if this is not the case.

If any code other than P1000 or P1111 appears, this will indicate an actual fault that will need to be addressed. Posters here will be happy to help if this is the case.

Happy driving, send the bill for your wasted fuel to Kathleen Wynne.

 

I do not think I've ever seen that article before. I see it makes a rather dubious statement regarding a cause of (wrong) failure being that the battery had previously died. With that sort of misleading statement the whole article is rather suspect especially combined with the hypothetical computer glitch! Both of those CAN be a cause but are to put it mildly unlikely to account for many test failures. They simply don't account for the increase in failures (assuming THAT statistic is right). Instead, it's that most of the extra cars ARE probably polluting.

Bear in mind that the test does not check for P1111 or at least it doesn't in any country I know about (USA, EU and I believe Oz). Most cars don't even use P1111 to mean what it does in S-Types (hardly surprising as P1 codes are non-generic).

 

I have my own scanner which wont clear the code. Wasn't assuming I did a lil homework but ya might leave this one with the dealer to solve. Which test if any do they run in u.k. ? Is it mandatory every two years? Just wondering and the advice is much appreciated guys

 

I can assure you that the testing stations here look for P1111. They are well aware of it's significance on Jags.

From first handed discussions locally, there has been no real increase in the number of cars that are found to be polluting, just a far greater number of cars that fail the test due to 'nuisance' false positives.

 

I think you're mistaking a check for monitors being set for a check for P1111. Jaguar could start replacing the cars' software with a new calibration that doesn't have P1111 if they felt like it. (I guess they'd issue a bulletin mentioning it.) The cars would be 100% OBD II compliant. If you're right about the way your country tests than there'd be a problem and your tests would have to be changed! More likely, they test for monitors (and then no change would be needed).

How does anyone know each is a false positive? What are they doing to prove them?

The old exhaust tests allowed through vast numbers of polluting cars that passed those very crude tests, which is precisely why OBD II was created.

 

Simple. An owner shows up for his mandatory smog test. No CEL or MIL is illuminated. The tech interrogates the system and finds one or more offending codes. This constitutes a fail. The codes are erased and the owner told to go drive the car for a week or so.

If no codes subsequently reappear (except P1111 in the case of a Jag) then the car passes the test and is good for another two years.

The owner has to pay for the first test ($30.) plus the retest ($17.50) not to mention time, trouble and fuel wasted throughout the process.

The article I linked to may not have the precise technical details of the false positives correct, but the concept of old irrelevant events being stored and causing a fail is correct. More importantly, despite the more rigid testing procedures now in force, the actual number of polluting cars being snagged has not increased, only the number of initial fails. What a waste.


I'll disagree that there are vast numbers of polluting cars running around today. Their inherent design and durability means that air pollution caused by faulty cars is no longer a significant issue. The very small number of genuine 'fails' supports this.

As the article states our west coast province of British Columbia discontinued smog testing last year for this very reason. The province of Quebec next door to us has no smog program and has no intention of starting one, leaving Ontario as the undisputed 'nanny state' champion yet once again.

This issue forms my basic objection to the clumsy test and it's nasty surprises as is presently performed here. There is no real problem that needs to be solved. A much kindler and gentler approach would be appropriate and perhaps in the near future an OBDIII system will take advantage of currently available technology. It would not be a stretch for cars to analyze their own DTCs, looking for genuine vs. spurious faults. If and when one is found, a message could be displayed (or sent to the owner's smart phone) giving details of what has happened and suggested course of action.

In the near term garages could offer a courtesy scan of the system during oil changes and routine inspections to avoid a nasty surprise. I see a marketing opportunity here...........

 

OK, you're the only country/jurisdiction I have heard of that tests that way. It's not the way OBD II (or EOBD) is meant to be used. No wonder you have problems. Why your lawmakers would put in place that way of testing I cannot imagine! Nowhere else looks for old codes - they see the MIL is off, that monitors have set and are good to go.

The article is hopeless.

The fix is just to do testing the way other countries do and I've mentioned above.

From what you say, your country is abusing OBD II so they just need to stop doing that and use it as it was designed and tested to work. Very simple. Far better and faster than exhaust gas tests.

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In case someone is wondering why old codes are kept for quite a while, it's not for testing. It's so a tech can find what may be wrong when a customer brings a car in somewhat later than they really should - which is common and otherwise makes diagnosis harder.

 

Province, not country. Each province sets it's own rules and regulations. The lack of consistency is most frustrating when living in the province with the most conservative, illogical and outdated rules.

I could get myself into a real strop by quoting the separate smog equipment regulations for antique and classic cars. Unique to Ontario, self contradictory and ineffective at anything except proving that governments really do have a Department of Redundancy Department.