Expansion tank and sensor issues - bad kitty once again
#1
06-08-2015, 10:37 AM
Expansion tank and sensor issues - bad kitty once again
So for the last month my car was laid up with a variety of service issues and after replacing the main radiator hoses. Checking the expansion tank by pressure testing it with compressed air @ 20 PSI immersed in warm water I could find no fault.
Now while that's not exactly the same thing as running the car for a while at operating temps I thought it would be sufficient. After running the car for a week with two 100 mile round trip excursions I thought I was OK.
Prior to this I had not been losing coolant but I did have a slight amount of dried coolant show up starting under the top nipple and running around the lip of the tank.
This tank WAS replaced under warranty about 25K miles and 5 years ago.
It began weeping again within 1 year but there was no significant coolant loss or smell.
So after my two recent excursions I checked and I had to top the tank up a bit, it was slightly below the Max before I took the car on a 300 mile trip this last weekend. I thought it might have been do to a few trapped bubbles.
After 150 miles of travel I get the low coolant red light warning but no temp increase. I look at the tank and it looks full. I figure it's the sensor or a loose wire but these are very secure modular plugs. Probably the senor then.
After letting it cool down I check and yes some coolant is gone, it's slightly below the low indicator but when looking at the translucent side of the tank it looks full so it's not critical.
We never smelled coolant and there was only that very, very slight trace along the lip.
We take a short trip to the local Pep Boys during whichj the red light goes out?
I bought some 50/50 mix and topped it up (maybe 4 ounces) yet the warning light won't go out and remained on for the duration of the follwoing 150 miles.
While doing all the front of the engine repairs the last month I was suitably unimpressed with how that sensor "locks" into that tank (it was oh so easy to knock it loose) as well as the utter lack of wiring loom length to make installation a reasonable job.
So I'm thinking I may have a bit of a leak with that sensor's attachment as well as a bad sensor and that the slight weeping at the top is not really the issue?
This morning it's down a bit but then it's also stone cold and it was not at that Pep Boys. The red light is still on.
I don't see a replacement part for the low coolant sensor in the JEPC?
Thoughts?
#2
06-08-2015, 12:26 PM
Veteran Member
A failed coolant expansion reservoir cap can allow a slight amount of coolant to seep out and crust up around the top of the reservoir. I had this occur in my wife's XK8 several months ago. A new cap resolved the issue....
Keep in mind that when you pressure-test your cooling system, your cap is out of the equation because the pressure-test kit's nozzle is inserted and sealed down into the coolant expansion reservoir in place of the cap....
Keep in mind that when you pressure-test your cooling system, your cap is out of the equation because the pressure-test kit's nozzle is inserted and sealed down into the coolant expansion reservoir in place of the cap....
#3
06-08-2015, 03:13 PM
#4
12-14-2015, 07:28 AM
Did a follow up service last week for all of these repairs, an oil & filter change and another tranny fluid exchange.
At the time I didn't have enough fluid to due a second flush because I goofed and turned the engine off WO the fill plug in place and so I lost a couple of fresh quarts that way.
So I decided to get some more fluid and tackle the second flush at the next oil change.
This time I wrote out a very simple check list guide as the original threads on this procedure take a long time to refer to and one of them confuses the drain with the fill plug. Perhaps I'll post my step by step checklist here later.
Having already done the pan and sleeve replacement just a fluid exchange is a lot easier this time around. The idea being to dilute the amount of original fluid still in the system by half once again.
So my air pressure fill bottle/pump (see other thread) worked slowly but very slickly once again. Also, holding any ordinary tall plastic pail instead of a catch pan under the drain plug works far better for the fluid drain IMHO. Zero splatter. That darn fill plug got terribly tight again and was a PITA but it came out.
When inspecting all of the work I did earlier this year (a lot!) I had zero leaks or drips and those changes in the belly pan screw lengths have prevented the damage to the pipes shown earlier in the thread so everything was great!
I also tackled the erroneous low cooling level sensor issue and as expected it had become knocked out of place on the underside of the reservoir. I had to remove the engine cover, front valence cover on top of the radiator as well as the intake tract hose from the engine and the air cleaner assembly. Thanks to using some Dow 111 silicone grease on those they came off quite easily WO needing to even touch the air cleaner assembly.
But I did discover that I had forgotten to replace one of the intercooler hose clamps and yet it never leaked at all!
(see photo)
The reservoir continues to weep at the nipple as it has since I bought the car and even after a warranty change out. It's not really affecting the coolant level so I'm just not going to worry about this any longer. ZERO leaking shows up on a pressure test so what can one do? (see photo)
We took the car on 1,000 mile trip the last 6 days and everything worked fine with no fluid drops or leaks upon returning home.
Soon it gets put away for the winter and next spring new pads and hopefully just having the rotors turned.
At the time I didn't have enough fluid to due a second flush because I goofed and turned the engine off WO the fill plug in place and so I lost a couple of fresh quarts that way.
So I decided to get some more fluid and tackle the second flush at the next oil change.
This time I wrote out a very simple check list guide as the original threads on this procedure take a long time to refer to and one of them confuses the drain with the fill plug. Perhaps I'll post my step by step checklist here later.
Having already done the pan and sleeve replacement just a fluid exchange is a lot easier this time around. The idea being to dilute the amount of original fluid still in the system by half once again.
So my air pressure fill bottle/pump (see other thread) worked slowly but very slickly once again. Also, holding any ordinary tall plastic pail instead of a catch pan under the drain plug works far better for the fluid drain IMHO. Zero splatter. That darn fill plug got terribly tight again and was a PITA but it came out.
When inspecting all of the work I did earlier this year (a lot!) I had zero leaks or drips and those changes in the belly pan screw lengths have prevented the damage to the pipes shown earlier in the thread so everything was great!
I also tackled the erroneous low cooling level sensor issue and as expected it had become knocked out of place on the underside of the reservoir. I had to remove the engine cover, front valence cover on top of the radiator as well as the intake tract hose from the engine and the air cleaner assembly. Thanks to using some Dow 111 silicone grease on those they came off quite easily WO needing to even touch the air cleaner assembly.
But I did discover that I had forgotten to replace one of the intercooler hose clamps and yet it never leaked at all!
(see photo)The reservoir continues to weep at the nipple as it has since I bought the car and even after a warranty change out. It's not really affecting the coolant level so I'm just not going to worry about this any longer. ZERO leaking shows up on a pressure test so what can one do? (see photo)
We took the car on 1,000 mile trip the last 6 days and everything worked fine with no fluid drops or leaks upon returning home.
Soon it gets put away for the winter and next spring new pads and hopefully just having the rotors turned.
So this post is from another thread but half of it is quite relevant to this thread so I've included it here.
Photo of upper nipple still barely weeping.
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/a...129%5B1%5D.jpg
And now ... the reservoir tank is leaking in earnest but not from the slight weep area on the upper rear nipple but on the lower one on the passenger side.
And this new leak DID make the low coolant light come on legitimately this time.
The lower nipple is lightly cracked near the base maybe 3/16" from the tank and on the barrel of the nipple.
I expect that the stress of manipulating the tank back in October to re-fit the low coolant sensor stressed the "robust" plastic
and natch it eventually failed.I'm going to look this morning at fitting a brass tube inside that nipple for strength and then using some of that UV light activated liquid plastic bonding stuff and see if that works? THis should be under $20 so it's not a crazy expensive experiment.
New tanks are at least $150 and still made like sh*t. This is my second tank and new one would be the 3rd at about 60K miles.
Last edited by Staatsof; 12-14-2015 at 07:35 AM.
#5
12-14-2015, 07:52 AM
Veteran Member
Given the woefully substandard quality of plastic that these Jaguar coolant expansion tanks are made from, having to replace the tank every four to five years is probably fairly typical for the cars built during our particular era. Very unfortunate for us owners and I agree that it shouldn't be this way. My 17-plus year-old original coolant expansion tank in my 1999 Dodge Ram pickup is about three times the thickness of these Jaguar tanks and is still very flexible and pliable. It has never leaked a single drop....
Keep us posted on the success of your experiment....
Keep us posted on the success of your experiment....
#6
12-14-2015, 09:37 AM
Veteran Member
#7
12-14-2015, 09:47 AM
I think it's the upper black, crap plastic that's problem. If they'd made it completely out of the same translucent and more flexible plastic of the lower half perhaps this wouldn't be an issue at all?
I've seen other reservoirs where the nipples have in inserted/molded metal tube so even if this repair fails I'll use the left over material to beef up the nipples on the new one.
Sorry for all the dirty talk ...
I've seen other reservoirs where the nipples have in inserted/molded metal tube so even if this repair fails I'll use the left over material to beef up the nipples on the new one.
Sorry for all the dirty talk ...
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#9
12-16-2015, 06:46 AM
The repair didn't hold up. 
New tank, again, time.
But the leftover glue seems to have fixed my sunglasses very well. I wore them for an entire day yesterday.
I think this glue doesn't withstand the heat and possibly the pressure either.
It felt very strong before testing it. So I guess this isn't the spot for it.
I'm not going to put the inserts in the new tank either. I think drilling them a bit only weakens them if the glue won't hold up.
New tank, again, time.
But the leftover glue seems to have fixed my sunglasses very well. I wore them for an entire day yesterday.
I think this glue doesn't withstand the heat and possibly the pressure either.
It felt very strong before testing it. So I guess this isn't the spot for it.
I'm not going to put the inserts in the new tank either. I think drilling them a bit only weakens them if the glue won't hold up.
Last edited by Staatsof; 12-16-2015 at 07:37 AM.
#10
12-16-2015, 07:55 AM
Veteran Member
I still believe that when these plastic tanks fail, the only safe fix is a new replacement tank. Unfortunately, we must factor in the cost of doing that every five years or so. My 2005 S-Type is on its second tank (installed in September 2009). Inspecting that tank is on my Every Weekend Checklist for this car (along with at least a dozen other specific component checks)....
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#11
12-16-2015, 08:21 AM
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#12
12-16-2015, 08:36 AM
So I ordered one from these guys for $142 ish and it should be here in day or two.
http://www.new-part.com/product/jagu...ne-brand-new-0
I decided to call and check that it was coming out of a relatively close warehouse and am I ever glad I did.
When I mentioned what a POS this part was he laughed like hell and said he knew exactly what I was talking about. Apparently this happens with BMWs as well. He said that at the place where he repaired them they ended up using insulation on the tanks so that they don't heat cycle as quickly and THAT he said made them last longer. Hmmmmm.
I'm not sure how to accomplish that in the two areas where they leak?
He suggested adding another layer of hose but I don't think there's enough room.
Perhaps some hi-tech insulation with a sticky backing that's not too thick?????
http://www.new-part.com/product/jagu...ne-brand-new-0
I decided to call and check that it was coming out of a relatively close warehouse and am I ever glad I did.
When I mentioned what a POS this part was he laughed like hell and said he knew exactly what I was talking about. Apparently this happens with BMWs as well. He said that at the place where he repaired them they ended up using insulation on the tanks so that they don't heat cycle as quickly and THAT he said made them last longer. Hmmmmm.
I'm not sure how to accomplish that in the two areas where they leak?
He suggested adding another layer of hose but I don't think there's enough room.
Perhaps some hi-tech insulation with a sticky backing that's not too thick?????
#14
12-16-2015, 08:44 AM
I still believe that when these plastic tanks fail, the only safe fix is a new replacement tank. Unfortunately, we must factor in the cost of doing that every five years or so. My 2005 S-Type is on its second tank (installed in September 2009). Inspecting that tank is on my Every Weekend Checklist for this car (along with at least a dozen other specific component checks)....
NEVER TRUST A TANK WITH TWO NIPPLES!
#15
12-17-2015, 07:39 PM
Veteran Member
Hmmm? My recollection is that the dealer only charges something just one side or the other of $100 - either $96 or maybe $108? RockAuto has the Uro version for $51.79. Lot's of people speak disparagingly of Uro Parts, but I've had good luck with their hoses and other parts...and anyway...it really can't be much worse than the OEM tank, now, can it? I mean, there's precious little room left on the bottom end....nowhere to go but up!
#16
12-18-2015, 08:31 AM
Veteran Member
Zane,
I'm not very happy with the quality of the aftermarket Uro upper radiator hose assembly in my S-Type. I installed the first one back in September. It had a consistent pinhole leak at the base of the small hose leading from the main assembly up to the throttle body. I notified the seller (Imparts near Atlanta, GA) and they sent me a replacement assembly within a few days. This replacement assembly intermittently allows coolant to weep through the top edges of that same small throttle body hose, never more than a few drops every week or so but still very disappointing. In retrospect I should have ordered the more expensive assembly (by $20 or so) from Welsh Enterprises and expect to eventually wind up doing so whether Imparts steps up to the plate again or not....
I'm not very happy with the quality of the aftermarket Uro upper radiator hose assembly in my S-Type. I installed the first one back in September. It had a consistent pinhole leak at the base of the small hose leading from the main assembly up to the throttle body. I notified the seller (Imparts near Atlanta, GA) and they sent me a replacement assembly within a few days. This replacement assembly intermittently allows coolant to weep through the top edges of that same small throttle body hose, never more than a few drops every week or so but still very disappointing. In retrospect I should have ordered the more expensive assembly (by $20 or so) from Welsh Enterprises and expect to eventually wind up doing so whether Imparts steps up to the plate again or not....
#17
12-18-2015, 09:06 AM
Hmmm? My recollection is that the dealer only charges something just one side or the other of $100 - either $96 or maybe $108? RockAuto has the Uro version for $51.79. Lot's of people speak disparagingly of Uro Parts, but I've had good luck with their hoses and other parts...and anyway...it really can't be much worse than the OEM tank, now, can it? I mean, there's precious little room left on the bottom end....nowhere to go but up!
This arrived overnight and I'll install in this weekend.
#18
12-18-2015, 10:04 AM
Senior Member
#19
12-20-2015, 04:08 AM
Several days late and no link.
Googling northeastjaguar yields nothing and www.northeastjaguar .com doesn't exist but does redirect to another multi make car dealer in Ohio?
It never came up on ebay under any of the part numbers or general descriptions when I searched.
So my response to aholbro1 was and is still correct. That's the tank for a non STR. It's an easy mistake.
WO a link I can't comment on your post mortem suggestion.
I completely do not understand the "yes" part of your reply though?
The place I used has several warehouse distribution centers across the USA and they were more than happy to speak with me so that I could see which one it would be shipping from, that way I could gauge my delivery time which was overnight in this case with free UPS shipping. I think they're business model is servicing small service shops for overnight parts delivery at reasonable prices.
#20
12-20-2015, 10:27 AM
Senior Member
It was not my intention to offend you. I know the parts for NA and supercharged are different. I paid $103.99 for my NA from Hampton Jaguar(now Columbia Jaguar, SC).
As an alternative people could try www.gaudinjaguarparts.com and search for part no C2C41300. Their price is $134 and the list is said to be $166.I know that many forum members use Gaudin.
My point really was that the genuine Jaguar part could be had for significantly less than $200.
As an alternative people could try www.gaudinjaguarparts.com and search for part no C2C41300. Their price is $134 and the list is said to be $166.I know that many forum members use Gaudin.
My point really was that the genuine Jaguar part could be had for significantly less than $200.