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Thanks for the response. it seems like they have 2 different connection for the tank cause the recall they did many years ago. if i am lucky, i only have to replace the tank and if not i have to replace fuel pump and other stuffs.
This is a recurrence of a failure that resulted in a recall.
Symptoms are fuel smell in vehicle when tank is full and engine warning light with an evap code.
My Jaguar dealer claims that the problem was fixed when the vehicle was recalled and is unhelpful, as are Jaguar USA.
I see many posts about this and suggest that anyone who has this problem notifies the NHTSB.
If enough people do this, Jaguar may be forced to revisit this issue and do another recall to address work that was not completed correctly when the original recall was implemented.
If it was a safety issue back then, it still now !
I have the same problem with the gas tank leaking. I spent $500 at the dealer to have the seals and retaining rings replaced. They said the leak was fixed. One week later, I go to re-fuel the car. When the gas pump stopped, about a gallon of gas leaked from the tank onto the ground. I called the dealer (JAGUAR of TULSA) and they said my tank did not pass the go/no go test and that I would need a new tank. They wanted $6000 US dollars for the tank. I have also notified the NHTSA. Today, I put some SEAL ALL gas resistant sealer on the seals. Hopefully this will fix the problem. JAGUAR SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE!!
If the SEAL ALL does not fix the leak, does anyone have any DIY fixes for the leak?
Last edited by kelbymorgan; 01-01-2016 at 01:49 AM.
Yes. I would replace the seals myself. Looks like part number XR850737. They are on EBay and are about $105 for each side. You might find them cheaper at one of our sponsors.
The removal is a problem as you need a special tool or at least take your time tapping the retaining ring off. All this can be done by taking the bottom of the rear seat out. We have two cut outs in the floor pan where these retainers poke up. This is a Lincoln LS but it's the same on our S Types.
Here is the post I wanted. You can make your own tool. This post is great because the guy refused to accept the dealers answer and fixed it himself for very little money!
Now you can also buy a tool for this and it's not that expensive compared to breaking those plastic retaining rings!! It's a Lisle 63000 Fuel Tank Lock Ring Tool.
Thing is if the DEALER fouled up then it's your choice to pursue them - at least get your money back. The idea that Jaguar would do much after so many years is kinda weirdly optimistic!! (And they don't even own the dealer who fouled up.)
@clubairth1, my tank has the retaining ring with the clamp on it. Not the kind that
requires a special tool. And I have replaced the seals and rings already.
UPDATE: The SEAL ALL did not fix the problem.
Do I need to buy a new tank, or is there some fixes that anyone has found that I should try?
If you have done all that then yes I think the tank is next.
My 2005 STR had the entire tank assembly replaced under warranty but it was before I got it. So I am not sure what the complaint was and why the tank is the problem and not the seals?
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You're lucky that you have the NA engine, and not the R. The pumps and plumbing are different in the STR, and the tank openings are slightly larger. The overall shape of the tank is the same, but a non-R tank won't cut it. If you read back in the thread, you'll see my story - basically I now have a FrankenJag. My tank assembly is from an XFR, and there's a new computer module in my trunk which adapts the tank's (pump/regulator) electronics to the ECM's expectations. I lucked out in that it was all free. The invoice was about $9k - which included a set of seals, two new pumps, drop and reinstall of tank, and ECM tuning. Fortunately, I won the "it's a safety issue, therefore still falls under the recall".
You know about the recall, right? R176 for the tank, cluster valve, and seals. R177 for some early-model cars which had the wrong fuel tanks in them. If you haven't, I encourage you to convince them - feel free to reference me (Ken Adamson) and my car (2005 STR) directly, in conjunction with Jaguar of Bellevue (Washington). Jag of USA sent a technician up from Los Angeles *with the new tank assembly* to perform the work!
@KenAdamson, Jaguar of Tulsa notified me that the tank had been replaced in 2007 under the recall. Then, I called Jaguar of USA and the guy told me the recall had been done and it was closed. He said the new tank would be my responsibility. Maybe I should call on monday and reference your name and car.
Last edited by kelbymorgan; 01-03-2016 at 01:00 AM.
I sure would follow up with Jaguar USA since you have Ken's permission to do so. Nothing to lose but some of your time. Good luck and keep us posted on the results....
P.S. I would require the appropriate documentation from Jaguar that the tank was indeed replaced under the recall back in 2007. Right now all you have are verbal statements....
@Jon89, I talked to the dealer a few days back and they told me the tank was not replaced. So, I'm not sure if it has or has not! Jaguar USA is going to have an answer monday after they contact the dealer I used.
Follow up on the gas tank saga. Jaguar USA called back today and let me know that they would not be covering the cost for a new tank. They said the recall had been done in 2007 and was closed. I also asked about Ken Adamson's gas tank dilemma. They said they can not discuss any information about his Jaguar.
My driver side passed the go/no go test and still leaks with the new seals. Is a tank from the scrap yard going to have the same issues??
Last edited by kelbymorgan; 01-11-2016 at 06:39 PM.
The fact that some kind of action was taken in the past
may be irrelevant in the face of the fact that the remedial
action has failed.
It is important to understand the law.
The law requires that a manufacturer fix a defect once
ordered to do so by NHTSA. The agency has some say
in the repair requirements.
But, it still falls on the manufacturer to fix the problem
permanently. Permanently being a somewhat fuzzy concept.
For example, bubble gum will fix a leak. If a manufacturer
chose to put a part number on bubble gum and issued a
recall mandating that part number, well and fine. Until
the bubble gum failed the next week and the cycle started
all over again.
The obligation of the manufacturer is not whether they
have used bubble gum of the correct specification that
fixed some of the vehicles, but that they fix all vehicles
permanently. Completely different animal.
I have some suspicion that the XF tank into S-Type
chassis exercise was due to internal recognition that
they might have to put such a fix into wide deployment.
If a Jaguar Corporate phone rep wants to refuse the repair,
I would insist that refusal be in writing, on Jaguar letterhead,
signed by an authorised officer. "for my insurance records of
course". See how fast he starts back pedalling because now
he has to consult with his boss, and in turn the legal department.
For those who are thinking about used tanks, since it is a 2005MY
problem, trying for a 2004 or 2006 tank would seem sensible.
Then again, a fix by Jaguar would seem much more sensible.
It's a question of grinding out the phone rep and building a
paper trail.
You must adopt a relentless bulldog mentality whenever you go up against any corporate entity. As referenced above, "get it in writing" is an absolute requirement as you fight this battle. Given that this is indeed a known recall that may or may not have been performed, you may eventually wind up in court where your documentation and organizational skills can make or break you. I've been there myself on a diminished value case regarding my S-Type being hit in an accident back in the summer of 2009. It took me five months to get my case into the courtroom but only about an hour to win my case once I was there because I was prepared for battle and had full documentation on what had transpired from day one....
If you decide that you do not want to put the time and effort into fighting this issue through, then you must consider what such an out-of-pocket fuel tank replacement cost would do to your cost-of-ownership financial model for this car. In all likelihood the repair would cost considerably more than the car is now worth. Let that serve as your inspiration to continue your quest against Jaguar....
It's more than odd that it leaks even with new seals. Over- or under- tightened or some such?
A scrap tank should be OK (and cost vastly less than the car is worth!) but the current problem with new seals may mean you'd have the same issue with a different tank.
It's more than odd that it leaks even with new seals. Over- or under- tightened or some such?
It was a multi-part TSB with a decision tree to be followed
by the mechanic. Not every repair was the same. So, if
the tree was incorrectly followed, you would not have as
good a result.
AHA! It could be argued that the original performance of
the recall was inadequate/improperly executed. This
would be the equivalent of not having performed the required
recall at all in the first instance. That would be in violation
of their obligations under the relevant legislation.
The difficulty there is that most phone reps in most industries
tend to go brain dead in the light of logical arguments. Especially
if it involves stringing together several logical steps. There's
no app for that you see.
But, it would be worth firing off a registered letter pointing
this out and the safety consequences to you, your family,
your loved ones, and anyone else in the immediate vicinity
of the car to Jaguar NA Legal. cc to NHTSA, also registered.
At least it is on record for future use in proving that they
were properly notified of your concerns, and it might just
get to someone who understands liability law ... a lawyer.
Never mind the internet and telephone. Judges love registered
letters with delivery receipts attached. And opposing lawyers
know this. Any unchallenged assertion in your letter is like
unlit dynamite to them. They have to address them before
any possible court date, or face the consequences.
BTW, what was the score in the UK on this?
Is it a known problem there? It would be 2004MY
in the UK I presume.
I like your thinking. Depends a bit on how durable (especially for how long it must last) a repair has to be. (Here, only somewhat i.e. not indefinitely.)
09-02-2015, 03:13 PM
2005 S type Fuel Tank Seals Leaking.
