Over the last month I've had intermittent issues in the morning with the jag starting. No issues cranking at all. Recently I got a p0455 and then p0442. The gross leak code hasn't returned but the small leak code has. I've done tons of research on the evap valve and can't seem to see or hear a leak. I ordered one anyways just incase. I just replaced the brake actuator and am wondering if some piping got damaged in the process. I do have a p0328 that has been intermittent over the last couple of years, but goes away if I increase throttle response. It has been showing up more frequently (once a day). I don't think the knock is the issue, probably due to lean conditions. I definitely have some small vacuum leaks that need to be addressed.
This is idle at 200F ECT


This is 1600 rpms at 200F ECT


Usually with the hard start I'd lean towards leaky injectors or fuel pump, but my psi looks good and I'm not getting any misfires or hesitation. There's no gas smell from the engine bay after turning the car off or in the cabin. The hard start issue typically is in the morning after sitting for 8 hours or more. When the hard start occurs there is howling or whirling sound that isn't typical from the engine bay and usually takes 3 solid cranks before starting. I'll try to get a video of it tomorrow morning. I thought maybe it's the starter on its way out due to the noise up front, but normally they give out completely and will give a solid click or no crank. And one more thing to add, I changed my fuel filter recently, I'm sure I put it the correct flow direction, but will double check. That was 5k miles ago. Just trying to brainstorm before I go do more diagnosis and seeing if anyone might be able to lead me in the right direction. Wife wants me to get rid of the car, but I enjoy driving and working on it too much lol. There's no fun in owning a Camry..

Next on the diagnostic list
Smoke test to find evap leak and vacuum leaks
Fuel pressure leak down test

I do have ids and mongoose of there is some values that would be useful to look at...

 

Please put your car details in so we know what you have?
Vacuum leaks usually give a P0171 and P0174 codes too?

Here is a possible solution but a different Jaguar?
P0328 Knock Sensor Problem
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2003 S Type R (thought it was in my sig)

Typically lean does give the p0171 and p0174, but I'm not reaching high enough values to initiate the code. I think you've got to get around 17%. I read the link and it's the opposite of my issue, and I've seen another XKR X150 have the knock issue similar to mine due to wiring. I've disconnected and cleaned the connection with no change. I highly doubt the p0328 and hard start are connected. I'm leaning towards the evap issue or the chance of battery failure causing the hard start. Once I've resolved the starting problem I'll go do the dreaded knock sensor and wiring. I checked my voltage after the car sat for 1 hour today and it was 11.4, when running is 14.3... The battery is a 4 year old Bosch. I'll check again tonight when I leave work, as that will allow 5 hours of drainage.

 

Car had issues starting again last night. It sat for 5 hours. Almost gave up trying, took 5 two second cranks to start it. No codes at all. I did check the fuel pressure before cranking it and it read 37psi with the key switch turned to on before starting. I've looked through the forums and cannot find an actual pre crank psi for the fuel rail. Does anyone know what this should be?

 

Yes it's in your signature now. For some reason not in the first post? And again in your last post it's missing? I thought once you made signature it always showed up in all the posts?

I agree and think none of the codes you list are connected with the starting problem?
I would try this to see if the pump could be the problem.
Turn the key on but do not start the engine. Leave it on for 10 seconds or so. Do this for at least 3 times. Then try to crank and start the car.
Is there any difference?

Even though you seem to have some fuel pressure it might be a volume problem as I have seen weak fuel pumps that would keep working for a lot of miles but just slowly get weaker and weaker.
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Not sure why the sig issue..

I'll try the turning the ignition to the "on" position for 10 seconds 3 times in the morning. I'll also check the fuel pressure via obd2 scanner on the 3rd turn. Any time the car sits for more than 4 or 5 hours it struggles to start. And the cold weather probably isn't helping much. I'll report back tomorrow.

 

Could be worth a look at each sensor you can readily grasp: ECT, IAT, ... in case something is wacky (the car doesn't know it's sat for hours, but you do).

But... if those codes are right you're asking the car to fuel correctly despite air leaks and, when cold, no working O2 sensors. Tough to ask that.

 

The service manual is here:

http://www.jagrepair.com/images/Auto...M-Workshop.pdf


See page 2435 for fuel pressure specs. On a SC V8, you should have 43.5 psi at idle and 72.5 psi at wide open throttle. I didn't see a prestart number, but believe it should also be 43.5 psi. If so, you're a little low but I'm not sure how much tolerance there is. No range is specified.

I like the suggestion to cycle the key to on (but not start yet) 3 times in a row. Each time you do, the pump runs for several seconds to pressurize the fuel rail and thus be ready to start. This would help identify if you've got a slow leak in the fuel rail, such as a bad injector or a check valve not holding pressure.

 

As clubairth recommended I tried to cycle the switch this morning with long pause to prime the pump 3 times. Took 2 long cranks afterwards still. It's 30F outside. Battery was 11.3 volts. I didn't screen shot this attempt but it was showing around 34F on the ECT. I'll check the IAT, but typically shows correct for the weather when driving. I went ahead and swapped out my EVAP purge valve and canister and my short trim definitely improved. I hate throwing parts at a car, but I felt confident with the 150k miles and the prior codes. It would constantly run without stopping.


I do hear a leak around the PCV and will look at that next. Thinking this is my reason for back 1 being lean. Just need to bite the bullet and smoke the car lol. Such a pita to do. The only other possible thing is the negative battery cable. I disconnected the cables a couple weeks to do a soft reset of the pcm after reinstalling my Mina intake. I did notice it was finicky when I reattached the negative cable to the terminal today. I replace the cable a couple years back due to the ground wire working its way out of the clamp. It's funny how many issues these cars have due to the battery. I'll check again in the morning and see if there is any change in the starting. Suppose to be cold again.

 

Workshop manual has been a savior in the past, just got a newborn in the house so my brain is foggy lately and totally forgot the specs in the back. Above will show my psi around 53-55 at idle and 37 might be low, but voltage is below 12 before cranking. I would only "assume" the pump would have less output with low battery voltage than operating temp. I am a little suspicious of the pump due to a high psi at idle. I'll check wide open throttle later today and see what maximum is.

 

Can I get an Amen?!!!

Does your car have any other issues, such as a parking brake fault, DSC or cruise not available? 12.6v prestart seems to be the magic number or you may get some of those faults. Lots of details here:

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...attery-193787/


I haven't heard much about low prestart voltage causing hard starts, unless the battery was severely run down and the cranking speed was reduced. The more common scenario is a guy insists his battery must be good (without measuring the voltage) because the starter cranks just fine and the engine fires right up, even though the prestart voltage was low enough for those faults to set in.

I suppose anything is possible, though. Instead of a low battery causing the hard start (but with normal cranking speed) you've been experiencing, more likely you've got two faults active at the same time. My hunch, offered for free and worth every penny, is the hard starting is related to fuel delivery. But from Troubleshooting 101: Take care of the known faults first before digging too deeply anywhere else. It would not be a bad idea to have your battery tested. Any doubt, replace it, as these cars are very finicky about batteries, as you have already stated. If you aren't ready to spring for a new one just yet, try charging the battery overnight and then starting with the charger still connected. That will ensure adequate prestart voltage, and see if the symptoms improve.

One other thought, before ending up in the weeds. Where are you measuring the voltage? Via your scanner? Make sure you are reading directly at the battery, as voltage can be lower at the OBD port under some circumstances.

BTW, congratulations on the new baby. Let me know if you need some help picking names. I'd be glad to help...

 

I was reading battery voltage on an adapter plugged into my lighter. I'll take a reading with my multimeter. Funny you mention dsc faults. I don't have a fault but every once in a while when starting the car I get a really quick flash of "dsc not available". It's super fast and disappears before most would see it. I'll get the battery tested. Just purchased a Bosch battery 4 years ago, but it's been drained a few times. Worth a shot.

Thanks for the congrats. Baby is 3 months old and with 2 kids the car seems to be the last thing getting attention lol

 

11.3 is roughly dead. Expect big hassles.

A leak you can hear is BIG. Expect more hassles.

 

Yes the battery voltage is a red flag and I would clear that up before doing anything else.
After cycling the key were you able to get a fuel pressure reading? Did it increase any?
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I put the battery on a 2 amp tender for the night so I'll have a full charge tomorrow and I'll check the battery via a multimeter. I didn't drive the car today so when I go to cycle the ignition I'll see what kind of pressure on the fuel rail after a 48 hour sit time.

 

Bear in mind that is about a 24Ah input so about 10Ah max. Nothing like enough.

Also, many a time a battery has reached end of life so will not hold much charge.

 

So I checked it this morning with direct contact on the posts and on the cables to make sure they weren't the issue. Was getting 12.3 volts. Still was a pretty long crank. I sort of understand the Ah drain and CCA, being an analytical person, but the stats of when I'm having the issue I think is either air or fuel related. If the car sits all night with a tender it'll have the long crank, but if I drive the car and try to restart within a few hours it's fine. I logged my cycles this morning to see where my fuel pressure was. Looked pretty good. Attached below.



1st key cycle

2nd cycle

3rd cycle

While cranking

From what I can tell I loose about 2psi of fuel pressure while sitting for 48 hours. 37-38 psi is where the car is at cycle without cranking once I cycle the ignition. Once the starter is engaged the car pushed to 60psi, which is good. That right between idle and wot. There are no specs on either psi that I can find in the service manual, but typical for most cars. Since jagv8 is looking at this as well, I asked the fuel trim question.. At idle prior to operating temp where should my stft be? I would assume negative. I'm sitting around -5% before reach 100F and then it starts to pull back.

And as someone mentioned since i can hear the leak around the pcv I need to address that asap.

Also, if someone gets a chance, can anyone check their FP with the key in the on position prior to cranking?

 

12.3 is too low. It may or may not matter in this particular case but it is considerably too low.

Ignore trims when the engine is cold, and indeed they're suspect with low volts, as is the ability of the coils to function properly.

 

The next thing I would do is spray a bit of starting fluid into the air inlet before turning the key. As you said we need to know if this is a fuel or ignition problem and I think it's a fuel problem.
Good sign that it's holding pressure as I was thinking it might be a leaking injector causing the hard starting.
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I assume spray the starter fluid after the maf..