Pete, you can have my stock lugs if you want them, I have at least 15 in good condition if you need replacements. Paying $5 a nut for these pieces of crap is ridiculous. I'm going to switch to the stock Lexus or chrysler nuts which are solid, discussed in the previous thread about lug nuts. E-mail me.

You know, I have access to both electric and pneumatic impact guns through friends and neighbors, but shyed away from using them for fear of damaging a lug nut. I'll take a picture of my broken one, it's 100% intact. No twists or damage to the stainless head, and it's not the stainless head that came off (like another two) It sheared off where the threaded portion of the stud ends. The enemy here may not have been just overtightening, but corrosion as well.

The problem is, due to Jaguar's infinite wisdom, The weakest link in the chain is the lug nut. Which isn't the case with other cars. Lets assume there was a corrosion bond there, and that the two were not going to separate. I'd have much rather sheared a stud, even if it came down to using an impact on it to get it to break (I don't know if i would have had that much power to shear a stud by hand even with a breaker bar). And had the wheel off, and been able to easily pound out the stud rather than this mess. I'm sure if an impact gun was used here, the result would have been the same. Obviously, I applied enough force to where the nut failed, but the bond didn't break. If the amount of force needed to break the corrosion bond exceeded the amount of force the nut could handle before shearing, then well either way, it was going to snap.

George

 

It might - The hammer impact might break it loose. If you do manage to get it loose - check the wheel good to make sure its not cracked from the over-torqued lug nuts. Hope it works for you. And - yep, I'm an old engineer - BSME, University of Cincinnati, Class of 1969.

Regards:
Oldengineer

 

Lesson learned, guys. Replace those crappy stock lug nuts with the solid chrome ones - NOW! Well worth the money and this type of problem won't strike you again. Sure glad I made that decision back in late January....

 

LUG NUTS ARE NOT $5 EACH, MORE LIKE $25-30EA. AND THE PROBLEM IS NOT THE NUT, BUT CARE,INSTALL, AND REMOVAL. i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

 

The problem on my car, as with any used car is I don't know the history of the "lug nut care". I'm sure this was gunned on by some neanderthal with an impact gun who gave no care to torque specs, and gave it that one final blast once it had stopped moving to make sure it was on "good and tight". Probably grinning while proudly carrying his Snap-On Dominator Impact wrench. This is my first attempt at removing the lugs on this car, because I just got it in Nov of 09. Are the lugs 3/4" or 19mm? I thought they were metric, I've always used 19mm on my X-type, and 19mm worked fine for getting the other 3 wheels off.

What I don't get is why THIS wheel had such a problem, when the other 3 did not. I agree that the stainless capped nuts shouldn't pose a problem, if properly maintained, but in the real world, the solid chrome ones seem to offer more peace of mind (Both my Jeep, and my Jag have had the stainless covers come off on lugs), I replaced them on the Jeep, and had no problems. I haven't had this problem EVER on any other car with wheel bolts and or lug nuts that were solid in their design. And in my younger days of not being so technically inclined I've been known to jump up and down on a breaker bar or two...

In its defense, the top half of the lug shows absolutely NO sign of damage, and the stainless cover is in tact. What the problem with the stainless cover seems to be is that the 2pc design gives the nut less overall strength. Has anyone seen how much material is there underneath the cap, relative to if it were solid? (Which I know shouldn't be needed) but in the real world of impact guns, and get-r-done "mechanics" there are very few who take the time and care to do things right. I have never seen a shop use a hand torque wrench to reattach a wheel or a lug nut. Some I have seen using those torque limiting sticks on their impacts, but that's even rare.

Throw in living in the northeast, and the fact that road salt is more prevalent than table salt, and it leads to a situation like mine..

Yes the lug nut may have been a victim as well, but in this case a wheel stud snapping would have been a much more desireable outcome.

Car goes to the shop at noon, we'll see what happens.

George

 

Check out the difference between 19mm and 3/4"

They're 19mm.

 

Hey! That 5/100ths of an inch might count lol..

Never did the math on that one before.

George

 

Yes actually 19mm and 22mm, but then i use shank drive sockets that you can no longer read sizes, they dont grab the corners but the shank or flats, and theyre less prone to rounding off bolt heads. And the reason I use 3/4 and 7/8 is that slight differeance, theyre flank drive, but from previous use from people on lugs, damage etc useing that exact size leads to stuck, lug in sockets, or hammering them on and then hammering off and definitly damaging cover cause many times you have to use a punch to get the lug out. with how many I do every day I dont want to damage lugs just working on someones car. the slightly larger flank drive sockets never damage them and I dont run the risk of tearing up someones distorted lugs cause they buy their tires at (insert tire store name here)
And you meen youre not supposed to jump up/down on a breaker bar??? lol

 

Sorry Brutal, but I have to disagree with you here. ALL two-piece acorn-style lug nuts are garbage, and not just because the tire shop guys admittedly abuse them. Two-piece lug nuts will fall apart over time, I don't care how tenderly one treats them with hand tools. I've had them on our two now-sold Grand Cherokees, my now-sold Durango, my current Ram, and my wife's S-Type, so I've been dealing with these crappy two-piece lug nuts for nearly 15 years. Wound up replacing every single one of them with solid chrome lug nuts. If you do the research and buy the right product, the solid chrome lug nuts will NOT rust, especially those made by McGard. All McGard lug nuts carry a lifetime warranty against rust. The McGard lug nuts on my Ram are nearly 7 years old and still look brand new. Unfortunately, McGard does not make a lug nut to fit the S-Type. I called them in mid-2009 and again back in mid-January and both times they acknowledged that there is not enough demand for them to manufacture and sell one at this point.

So I'll see how it goes with these Mitsubishi lug nuts I ordered through Chrysler back in late January. Thus far I'm very happy with them. One thing is for sure - there will be no more two-piece acorn-style capped lug nuts on any of our vehicles in the future....

 

I'm with Jon on this one...

Look at the picture and tell me that this lugnut would have failed the way it did if it was solid in it's construction instead of just having that thin inner sleeve.

And lets forget rust as a factor because even though the outside of this lugnut would still polish up brilliantly cause it's stainless... The inside is still all rusty. Rust is aesthetic on the outside, it's the mating surfaces that count.

George

 

Ok for some reason that picture didn't take.

See the outline of what appears to be a "ring" on the inside of that stainless cap? That's the diameter of what's left on the lug stud. Basically they thin down the part that takes the cap, and just press (not even weld) the stainless cap on to make the lugnut pretty from the outside.

Let's try this again.

George

 

Ok so I finally got the wheel from hell sorted.

Here's what happened.

First my mechanic tried to remove the remaining 4 lug nuts. Two of which I had already torn the stainless steel cap heads off of.

With a 19mm socket and an impact wrench he proceeded to tear the head off of the other two.

Then he got out his extractor socket set.

Hammered a 17mm socket onto the first lug. Hit it with the impact, and actually got it off.

He had to take the socket to a vice and beat what was left of the lug nut out of it.

He then proceeded to repeat the procedure on the other 3 lugs, and the extractor socket managed to snap 2 of the 3 remaining ones in the manner that I had snapped mine.

Then, he got out the air chisel / hammer with a dull pointy bit. Then took a center punch and punched a divot into what remained of the lug nut, then started on it with the air chisel. Suprisingly it broke loose and spun, and he was able to get it out, a couple turns with the chisel, and by hand the rest of the way.

He repeated the procedure on the next lugnut that had snapped.

Then it came time for the mess I made, - the lugnut I had drilled into. This started breaking apart with the air chisel, and he was forced to go in and dig it out. This ruined this and only this lug seat in the wheel. Except for one tiny slip up he didn't touch the wheel at ALL with the air tool on the other lugs. It was my fault, and he told me I should have just left it alone. In fairness he told me to just leave it and that he would take care of it on Monday when I called him Sat afternoon, but I refused to listen. That cost me a factory wheel.

We then proceeded to take off the rear brakes, and pound out all the wheel studs. BTW No wholesaler / parts warehouse stocked anything as a Jag part, all were dealer only.

So because I needed the car, and I was fairly confident, I told him to order a set for the Lincoln LS. He agreed, stating that he could send them back if they didn't work. 30 mins later a parts truck arrived with a box of wheel studs. Made by Dorman.

We compared them side by side with the original Jag ones we had removed, and they were 100% identical. In case anyone needs to get a set in a pinch. We proceeded to press in all the new studs, and put the brakes back together, and all was well again. Bolted up my summer wheel, and I was good to go.

Total parts cost $9.45.

He felt so bad for me for ruining the wheel, and we have been friends for a long time, so he called it even at the pizza and soda that I bought the guys for lunch. (he had ordered it but didn't have cash when the delivery guy came).

So all in all it cost me about $35. Plus whatever it will cost to replace the factory wheel.

On another note, my aftermarket wheels for some reason are giving the car a bit of a shake at 45mph, (which lessens but is still there as u go faster) but were smooth as glass the last time I had them on my X-type. He suggested rebalancing, which he is going to do tomorrow. But as I drove the car the shake seemed to get less pronounced.

Maybe they have to be driven on a bit?

George

 

tires flat spot, and yes they round out again if they werent sitting long and take a permanent set. You can have that wheel refinished by a wheel repair guy/shop for $100-150 per wheel, this is for curb rash, bends and even cracks can be welded. or you can try a junk yard

 

So...what lug nuts did you end up using instead of the factory issue?

 

My summer wheels have a conical lug seat, so I've used new lugs with them from the start.

21mm McGard 12x1.50. The pain is that they need a THIN wall socket. The lug holes on my 19's are Narrow.

I found set for factory Jag wheels - check the lug nut thread. Use the Dorman ones from rockauto.com - Something like $80 for all 20 delivered.

George