Car is a 2002.5 S-Type - VIN M59756 / 2.5 V6~ ZF6HP

Driving around a few weeks back, gearbox fault message appears and amber warning light comes on, goes into limp home mode (no other MILs or warnings); but a strange whiny noise from the gearbox (I'm guessing because of the limp home activation).

Here are all the things I tried:

Battery fully charged, left overnight, holds 12.6 volts steady even after 30 sec accessories test.

Disconnected battery, touched cables together for 20 seconds, left overnight, start-up in the morning, same (gearbox fault) message comes up immediately.

Since I've got the IDS/Mongoose, quick scan revealed the following:

ECM: [ERR0xc] Communications with the module have been lost

General Electronics control module: U1041 Vehicle speed not obtained

Rear Electronics control Module: U1041 Vehicle speed not obtained (further description) ABS/ Dynamic stability control wheel speed message error. SCP network error.

Transmission control module: P0715 Input / turbine speed sensor circuit malfunction.

My first thought after seeing the codes was "ABS sensor", but that still doesn't explain the ECM /communication error.

I must add that apart from the limp home, all functions /features / lights/ remotes on the car work perfectly, the car starts, drives flawlessly etc.

Appreciate your expert insight before I throw parts at it.

Sincerely

 

Bump. Any advice anyone?

 

ABS problems won't put the car in limp mode so you have bigger problems than that.
Has the SDD been hooked up before? Is the SDD battery indicator green?
Clear all the codes and drive the car to check what comes back.

You might be seeing older codes and that is confusing.
Please put mileage in too as that transmission error might point to a transmission issue like needing a rebuild.
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I got the SDD just as this issue reared its head, so this is one of the first times it's been hooked up. RE the battery indicator, I will double check that and report back.
Update: The battery indicator on IDS shows just gray - it isn't red or green just gray. Don't know what that means exactly.

The car has about 90,000 kilometres / 55,000 miles on the clock.

RE clearing the codes, for the life of me I cannot clear the codes related to the GECM and the RECM - when I click on them, the little eraser thingy just disappears. I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.

I have cleared the transmission code and it comes back almost immediately when I turn the ignition on.

 

That's interesting but I am not sure I have seen the battery indicator grey before? Is this with the car NOT hooked to the SDD?
I have seen "permanent" codes that will not erase on my car too. But they are labeled as permanent. I don't know the reason why either?

OK. Have you checked the fluid level or changed the transmission fluid?
Might be low fluid level? Are you aware of the leaking sealing sleeve? Have you checked? Does your car have this? Almost all sleeves will leak.
It's not easy to check fluid level but you can DIY it. Again I have no mileage info so guessing here?

I just saw this? Is SDD dropping back to IDS because your car is so old? I know the facelift was 2003 in the US and maybe 2002.5 in the UK?
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Can't help with the connectivity issues, but I've been wondering if the P0715 transmission code is the primary fault, and is triggering the U1041 codes in the other modules. In other words, would it make sense to concentrate on P0715 and see if fixing that clears up the U1041 codes?

 

@clubairth1 The battery indicator is gray / uncolored with the car hooked up to IDS. Yes - since the car is the ROW facelift 2002.5, SDD reverts you to IDS. The current mileage on the car is 86,000 kilometers or approx 53,000 miles.

Update: With the battery disconnected, I removed the rear wheels and cleaned both sensors (cleaned with electronic cleaner, applied dielectric grease to connectors etc) and the reluctor rings (wire brushed all the grease and dirt off after spraying with some de-greaser, noted no damage to any of the cogs). Reconnected the battery, managed to clear the U1041 codes (instead of clicking on the sub-menu or error description, clicking on the main module description brought up the "clear code eraser thingy", drove the car for two ignition cycles (the transmission was in limp mode - 2nd gear the whole time). Rechecked and now the only faults now remaining are the ECM ERR0xC (lost communication) and the P0715 Input speed sensor from the TCM. When using one of the live data logging modes, the TCM value simply shows "no communication".

I've checked pretty much everything else using IDS such as the transmission range sensor (which works fine), brake pedal switch works fine. However, I did notice a weird issue (although I'm not sure whether this is relevant to the current issues or not) - I can move the gear lever out of park and into any gear without depressing the brake pedal (regardless of whether key-in or out, or key position) . The car does detect when the selector is being moved out of park with the ignition on by making that beeping noise. Again - not sure whether this is at all relevant to the P0715 and the ECM communications issue.

Here are some photos off of the IDS screen (taken after Mongoose was disconnected which is why the battery indic shows red).





@kr98664 It seems that the P0715 is the main issue here. I may have jumped the gun by posting without going through with clearing the rest of the code so that one's on me, ergo I still cannot understand the ECM error.

Lastly, I must reiterate that the P0715 comes back instantaneously: even when I clear the code, cycling the ignition to on simply to complete the code erase procedure, brings the fault back up. So perhaps we may be right in inferring that this is an electrical issue and not a mechanical one?

 

So, having referred to the workshop manual, recurring P0715 dictates the replacement of the TCM and Mechatronic unit. Which is strange since from what I've read, these units can be rebuilt if I'm not mistaken?

Regardless, worst case scenario if it is indeed the TCM and replacement is the only option left, would a TCM/Valvebody from a later (say 2007 / 08) S-Type fit? I'm aware that the TCM can be coded to the car with IDS, but are the units interchangeable?

 

Might be a long shot but I have seen TCM communication errors when the transmission sealing sleeve leaks. We have seen transmission oil travel back up the wire harness causing strange problems.
Any chance you can get under the car and take a look? Maybe disconnect the plug and spray it out?
It's very difficult to do if the car is not on a lift.

Note TCM failure is very rare so I would put that at the bottom of your list. Also the TCM is internal to the transmission.
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Keep in mind you're reading from an official Jaguar source, intended for dealership mechanics. New parts were always specified. Only the aftermarket had the option for remanufactured parts. For the most part, such things don't even exist in the official Jaguar mindset.

OBD code explanations linked on this page:

JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource


We have now reached the limit of my knowledge with this transmission and control system. All I can do is ask annoying questions while trying to appear less ignorant than I really am.

Is the suspect part (turbine speed sensor) available separately? Or is it only available as part of the valve body? Is there any way to test the sensor by itself? Reading between the lines, is the TCM part of the valve body, or is it a separate unit? If a train traveled west from Chicago at 60 MPH, and another traveled east from Denver at 40 MPH, where would they meet? How far is up? Who named the colors? Where do babies come from?

 

Well, I'm going to try and get all fours of the car up on jack stands this weekend - hopefully that'll give me enough clearance to get to the plug. And while I'm there, will check the fluid level as well.

Like I was saying earlier, let's suppose it is indeed the TCM worst case scenario, would the Valve body out of a newer S-type fit ?

Thanks

 

Well that document pretty much states the same thing as the workshop manual did.

According to the workshop manual, the Input / Turbine speed sensor is "located on the TCM", which probably means it is integral to the unit (although I've never taken one of these apart so maybe someone more knowledgeable could comment).

The TCM is attached to the valve body but I'm not entirely sure whether the TCM could be taken apart and replaced independent of the mechanical structure, although I think it should be possible.

Like I said earlier, if anyone knows a bit more about the mechatronics unit in these gearboxes, perhaps they could chime in - especially with regards to swapping in a unit from a later model year S-Type.

 

As to your question about which TCM might work as a replacement. You need to read the ID tag on the transmission.
All ZF 6 speeds are very similar but there are dozens of variations as this transmission is used so widely.
This is the tag your looking for;



Not sure which side of the case the tag is on? I "think" it's the drivers side.

Since your getting pretty deep into the ZF I like this place for parts and advice.
ZF Parts

So I don't know if other TCM's will swap but think you can if you know which ones to use.
The CTSC should be able to advise you.
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First off, thank you all for your replies and advice - even the tiniest clue certainly goes a long way with diagnosing these cars as I'm sure you all know

Over the past couple of days, I raised the car up on jack stands (finding those jacking points was a superlative experience, but thankfully no damage was done). I disconnected the new (and fully charged) battery that I had put in, checked the connector sleeve and found that it indeed was leaking and everything down there was coated in a thin film of oil. Opened the connector, cleaned everything in there thoroughly with electronic cleaner, used compressed air to blow any residual liquid or dirt away and applied some dielectric grease and reconnected. While I was down there, I took a good look at the wires and connections (to see if any were frayed) but nothing was readily apparent. The transmission wiring harness that runs from the engine bay to the back of the transmission had broken off of its plastic retaining clips and was literally resting on / being supported by the exhaust manifold. I noted that the protective black cover had melted a bit but the wires underneath appeared to be OK (although I will re-verify this in future if nothing else works). For the time being, I used some heat-shielding that I had left over from a previous project and wrapped the entire harness (as much as I could physically get to anyway) and zip tied it above and out of the way of that exhaust manifold.

Got back out, reconnected the battery, switched the ignition to on and Gearbox Fault was right where it was staring at me in the face. Quick recal of the throttle body, started the engine, put the selector in drive and yes - limp home mode as before. Connected IDS, pulled codes and yes - P0715 Input speed sensor.

So back to the drawing board. I had ordered two rear ABS / Wheel speed sensors off of Rock Auto (the cheapest ones they had), so at this point I thought "what the hell - couldn't hurt to try eh?" Since the car was already on jack stands, I grabbed my breaker bar and popped the rear wheels off and swapped out the sensors (that I had previously cleaned and re-installed).
Got back in the car, turned the key to on - and - no more Gearbox Fault! At this point I've literally stopped breathing . But wait - usually the message comes on right after I start the car - so what'll it be this time?! Start the car and - NOTHING! Everything is back to normal. I literally couldn't believe my frickin' days!

NOPE. I'm not getting off that easy and I've got the luck of an abandoned dog in the desert. I moved the gear selector to reverse, then neutral and then to drive (sort of pausing for a second in between gears), and the moment I hit Drive, there was a little jerk and the transmission goes back into its default limp home mode with Gearbox Fault on the message center.

Also, I forgot to add in my previous posts that the gearbox oil and filter had been replaced by - let's call them an ex-Jaguar dealer here, just over a month ago - back when I really didn't know jack about these cars (and apparently still don't). I'm suspicious that they did not fill to the correct level according to Jag specs, but benefit of the doubt for now,as I totally doubt whether low fluid would put the gearbox into limp home mode this aggressively.

So, this morning (GMT +3 is the time zone I'm in), after having done some research, I concluded that I've really got nothing to lose since I was already prepared to get a new TCM / Mechatronic unit. I grabbed my battery charger and connected it to the battery and set it to charge mode, grabbed the laptop and decided that I'm going to clear the adaptations and attempt a software upgrade.
Long story short, it went extremely smooth - the adaptations were cleared, the flash program initialized and IDS updated whatever software it updates (I got SDD/ IDS and the Mongoose from British Diagnostics).
The charger got pretty hot in the process but otherwise the battery held up through the roughly 30-minute process. Disconnected everything, got back in the car, turn the key to on and Gearbox Fault was no more! Once again!!!!! Could it finally have been banished this time?

DENIED would be the right answer Just as soon as I turned the engine over, the Gearbox Fault message was back on the message center along with being in Limp Home mode. Much wow.
I also used IDS to test various modules in the car (except the TCM, since it doesn't allow me to test the thing owing to the fault) to see if that pulled anything up anything out of the ordinary and found squat.

Now I'm back to the drawing board once again. I'm going to check the fluid level in the morning (do you check the fluid level when the transmission is hot / cold? please do advise). If the fluid is low, I'll add some and try clearing the codes etc once again to see if that was the cause - and if it was well, I'm glad I went through this procedure because I got to learn the car and its nuances through and through. If that isn't the cause, well then on to the next thing (which I'm sure someone here will advise).

I mentioned previously that the gear selector can be moved out of park regardless of the key position, and upon studying some material related to how the J-Gate works in tandem with the TCM, I'm also going to try and replace the J-Gate assembly (already have one that I preemptively picked up from a local scrap yard a few months back), and see whether that would cure the issue (unlikely), but worth a shot since the mechanism is already broken and I don't like the fact that you can move the gear lever out of park without depressing the brake pedal.

I must add that the previous (first) owner of the car never replaced the Mechatronic sleeves or the adapters through the length of his ownership (84,000 kms when I bought it), and my thoughts are that perhaps one of those are FUBAR and is causing the fault - so if all else fails I'll be dropping the Mechatronic out of the trans and having a look.
Either way, I'm now more determined than ever to locate the cause and fix this thing!

All input is welcome and thank you for reading!

 

I forget which TSB or TRAINING GUIDE this is from.

Jaguar 32-bit ECM recovery procedure

2002-on X-TYPE, 2003-on S-TYPE, 2004-on XJ, 2003-on XK

In the event communications to the Engine Control Module (ECM) cannot be established or an error occurred

during programming and the ECM will no longer communicate with the WDS,

DO NOT replace the ECM.



Perform the ECM rectification procedure that will 'unlock' the ECM and will restore communications. Before continuing, have WDS in the docking station, the docking station plugged in and a battery charger on the car's battery.



1. Start programming the ECM as an existing module using the WDS.

During the reprogramming process, the screen in figure 1 will appear.



2. Disconnect the negative battery lead and press 'YES" on the

WDS screen as shown in figure 2.



3. Reconnect and tighten negative battery terminal and then press

'YES' to continue.



4. NOTE: Be aware of the time requirements of this portion of the

procedure. A helper may be required to perform correctly. Press

tick on WDS, wait 2 seconds, then switch ignition on. WDS will

recover and then reprogram ECM.



Also see problems with VID Block (ADMIN TSB 1-186)
and SDD Best Practice.pdf

 

Thank you for the information. Going to try this first thing tomorrow morning.
So you reckon that the issue lies with the ECM needing to be updated? It does make sense that the ECM being kaput and not talking to the TCM making it go haywire. But since the car starts and runs etc I figured it would be a moot point.

 

So here's the update:

I connected the charger, set to 13.6 supply, connected the SDD/Mongoose, entered the VIN manually to allow IDS to get vehicle configuration on file; Verified features and confirmed. Hit "No" to reading DTCs and proceeded directly to "Configure existing module" > "ECM".
The first thing the IDS did was to download a file. It then prompted with some ignition on / off questions and for the next 20 minutes it sat there with the progress bar and timer seemingly updating the ECM. All the warning lamps in the instrument cluster were illuminated during the process, and finally it prompted some key cycles that I complied with and showed me some DTCs (same P0715 / climate control something) and told me that the module was successfully programmed.

I then safely exited the IDS, disconnected the Mongoose from the OBD port, turned the engine over and I'm back at the start line - Gearbox Fault on the dash and everything else exactly the same.

Reconnected the IDS and pulled the codes to which - ECM: [ERR0xc] Communications with the module have been lost appeared as usual under the ECM
So I'm guessing that something didn't exactly go the way it was supposed to go - even though no harm came of it at least.

Some key points:
I never got a prompt to disconnect the battery terminals during any stage of that procedure (or was I supposed to do that without being prompted?) How do I disconnect the battery cables when the charger is connected? I have to admit being a bit lost at the moment

Any further advice is greatly appreciated!

Edit: I just realized that the "Rectification" procedure is supposed to come up as a result of IDS not being able to communicate with the ECM. But for some strange reason, this didn't occur.

 

The IDS must have been able to communicate with the ECM or it would not have installed the software?

You might check ALL the modules on the CAN bus?

 

Thank you for your reply (and your patience) Motorcarman.

I remember doing the test on the GECM the other day and it worked fine. I guess I'll do the same on the rest of the car. I noted that the icon for testing the module does not come up on the TCM - I'm guessing it has to do with the fact that it has a fault that can't be erased?

I'm still curious as to why / how it still shows an error in communication with the ECM, when clearly, it can communicate with the thing!

At any rate, I'll test every module that I can today and get some photos if I get stuck and revert.

Thanks again!

 

Perhaps it's caused by something like a bad module on CAN or a chafed cable that just shorts occasionally. We're never going to get the source code for IDS (which I'm sure Jaguar don't own) let alone someone to hunt through it if we had it, so it's going to be tough to figure out.

Heck, it could be some weird effect of the cable if it's not a genuine one.

You might try an ELM (327 / BT) and direct commands in case you find something that fails and suggests the cause but it'll mean reading up (ELM have great doc) and much time/effort.

Whatever is wrong appears unique to your car / cable / ...