Hello guys;

Here from the XJS and E forum

I have been looking to replace my daily driver with a new car, and have been considering adding another Jaguar to the garage.

My problem is that I am seriously torn. I have been looking at the 2012 XF's. Can live with the interior. Excellent ride.., but I can not get past the fact that it looks like a Lexus. No character. The 09-11 XF's are even worse. I tried to look at the models that the dealer had mounted a leaper on to see if that would warm me up, and those just looked like a Lexus with a wart mounted on (although if I end up getting one I will mount one as a matter of principal) They do not even come in British Racing Green (no Jaguar appearantly does anymore!!) and of course The hefty car payment for a car I do not like much does not help.

On the other hand I have always adored the S type, regardless of what some idiot car journalists have said about it. The car is a Jaguar, period. Better yet I can get it for the price of a Toyota and in my beloved BRG.

This is where I am torn. I want a quickie. No owner involvement. I want to change fluids, break pads and no more than routine maintenance. This is going to be my daily driver except for those days when the other Jags come out to play. I do not want high maintenance. I do not even want having to think about pre-emptive maintenance. Clearly, a used S type can't give me the level of reliability (and warranty!!) that a new XF can....or can it??

From reading the archives here, I see that if I do go with the S type I need to look at 05' and above, which I have. I do not necessarely want an "R" (unless I find the right one..in BRG). I have been following a few with 80K miles or less and see that they range anywhere between 12k-26k dollars.

Speaking strictly about 05-08 models, are the V6's as good as the V8's in terms of reliability and maintenance??..Why is it that there is such a wide range in pricing on vehicles with similar mileage and same trim?? ..how many miles are too many on an S?? 150K miles on a AJ16 powered XJS or X300 is like 30K miles on another car....if the S the same?? another thing is I notice a lot of them have chrome non stock rims..not my cup of tea..are stock rims easily available?

Thanks for any insights you might provide

 

I hope you know any make of car that's 5+ yrs old can let you down, especially now the emissions laws are so tough. Some makes are (usually - there are always exceptions) middling, others poor, others good. The jags are middling. If you want super-reliable get a high-volume boring car from part way through its production run, probably Honda/Toyota (incl Lexus).

An STR doesn't really fit your stated wants. It's a high-performance thoroughbred.

You'll not find BRG especially easy to get (JRG may be easier).

With your stated wants I'd get a 3.0 or 4.2 NA. Generally, ordinary things you can fix are what go wrong. There are far more on here with 3.0s and lots of FAQs for them.

My guess on pricing is that these are not easy cars to sell so pricing is a challenge. Means you may get a bargain.

 

I'll toss in my 2 cents. Aside from minor styling differences, there's no real differences between the 2003 and the 2005 models. The fabled mechanical revisions in 2005 are either insignificant or non-existent as far as I can tell. I've owned my 2003 4.2 non-R since 2006 and it's been the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned, bar none.

There's no real trend in reliability that distinguishes the V6 from the V8 models. Neither is perfect, but no car is. Any used car can have issues at any moment but new cars can too.

Remember that nobody joins a car forum to complain that their car is running perfectly, always has, and they're now in a big panic looking for no assistance to leave things alone because they aren't broken.

If you do buy an XF and we pass each other, please excuse me if I don't wave back. I frequently can't distinguish that car from the rest of the Volvo lookalikes.

 

3.0 base 4.2 or SC 4.2 are all subject to have coolant leaks...There's the dreaded transmission lurk on the ZF transmission...

 

I was reading consumer reports in my dentists office and they are saying the new XF and XJ are the absolute worst for reliability. Don't know what their criteria is. But I checked s-type reliability before getting mine and at the time it was built (2003) it was better than BMW and Mercedes. This was not from consumer reports, though. Not sure what they said. I often don't agree on their criteria, as for high end audio, for example.
I agree that the XF doesn't look like a Jag and looks Common/Japanese to me. It looks modern and sells well though.

 

Agrees with Mickey. I'm not knocking the vehicle, however, the styling looks a lot like a GS300, ES300 then a little like a VOLVO depending on the year. The styling is a little different because of the grill and the rear tail lights, but .... well I think you all know what I'm saying.

 

I can attest to coolant leaks. I would absolutely take the test car to a mechanic and have a pressure test done on the cooling system. I have had to replace my upper hose, water pump, a coolant tank, and a few elbow hoses on the car before it puked coolant all over the place. On a second trip back about 8,000 miles later, the upper and lower hoses were replaced along with the radiator cap.

I would call the cooling system notorious.

I have a surge in my transmission when "cold" that goes from 40-60 mph in the highest gears. I had the half brains at Orlando Jaguar reflash the trans to no avail. I don't know whether they actually did it correctly or not, but I don't have time to take it back as I am now in Texas. That cost me about $320.00 for that non-job.

That said, I still like driving the car and it functions as a daily driver for me.

I have nothing but unmitigated contempt for those who designed the cooling system, however. there is NO excuse for having 5 breakouts on an upper hose that also swells up after 8,000 miles.

You can get gouged $350 per hose by a shop, so its good to have a couple of hoses in your car when you are ready to replace them. You can get them for about $220.00 from a Jaguar parts place. They are not available on line.

You have to stay on top of your cooling system.

Personally, if I was to do it again, I probably would not have bought this car; I would have waited and bought a Lexus IS or an Infiniti G35. I still like the Jag, though. It's cheap entry into an otherwise nice world of high performance and rear wheel drive.

 

Our S-Type has been a great car for us in nearly three years of ownership. It suffered from the typical complaints (limp mode requiring throttle body replacement, rear stabilizer link components replacement, coolant expansion tank replacement, shrinking hood liner replacement, fuel filler lid assembly replacement, IMT O-ring replacement, etc.), but I purchased the car with seven months of factory warranty remaining and rode that warranty like a racehorse to get the major issues resolved at Jaguar's expense, not mine. But I continue to believe that these cars are best for those who can D-I-Y the majority of the required maintenance. They can be costly if you choose not to do your own work. With the assistance of this forum and a basic set of tools, nearly anyone can do it. You just need the time and the aptitude to tackle the issues that will arise....

 

Thanks everyone for the replies. I really appreciate you all taking the time.

I really like that I have some good and bad responses to help me gauge what I want, or rather, need.

As I mentioned in my original post I have a XJS and a E s III. If you ask me about the reliability of those cars, I would be biased. I would say the 95 XJS is bulletproof and the 74 E type is very reliable as well, all systems work 100 percent on them all the time and they can be used daily if I choose to, however I would be speaking within the context of Jaguar ownership, which means all problems real and imagined are nipped at the bud and they get time and money dedicated to them.

The current standard of reliability is the bland and lifeless ownership of Japanese cars where no involvement is required and all you do is drive the car in for maintenance. Five year old Japanese cars are for the most part problem free. My mother owns a 98 Nissan Altima she bought new and I think she did the last oil change a couple of years ago. She does not understand the concept of maintenance, which the car only gets when I remember to do it for her. 230k miles and no problems at all, ever.... ...Sadly,because of my other Jaguar commitments, I am looking for that bland and lifeless ownership on a daily driver. I am or was hoping that I can have that, but with the looks of the S type.


Are there really differences between the 00-04's and the 05-08's, or are those fables as Mikey said??

My brain says new car but my heart still says S type. lol

 

There are definitely differences between the early S-Types (2000, 2001, 2002) and the 2003-and-up S-Types. The early ones suffered from poor coils, poor gaskets, the Ford transmission, and additional issues that others will mention soon in this thread. As the S-Type matured, the coil issue was resolved (although it took several attempts to get it right), most (but not all) gaskets were improved, and the better-but-quirky ZF transmission replaced the Ford one. My own research back in mid-December 2008 convinced me to stick with a 2005-or-newer S-Type for fewer major issues, that's what I did, and I don't regret it. Others will tell you that their 2003 or 2004 S-Type has suited their needs just as well. What most of us agree on is that you'll be better off in the long run if you stay away from the pre-2003 models....

 

Yes, that's correct. The 'big' revision was for the 2003 model year. This included the mechanical features Jon89 mentioned and more, plus a revised interior. The 2005 mini-revision was a facelift only.

While the data may not be easily available, it would be interesting to compare present day owner satisfaction of the quoted Japanese brands from the same time period. Perhaps they believe that the grass is greener too?

 

I think most new cooling systems suck. On my BMW they were issues with the radiator cracking and leaking (along with hoses). I look at cooling system parts as routine maintenance now.

 

Hello, my 2 cents, get the S-type!!! You've heard the old adage, "follow your heart". It's one thing to walk into your garage and get into that "looks like everything else and boring to drive" car that's reliable, but an entirely different feeling WANT to walk in your garage and "CAN'T WAIT" to start it up and get going. Me personally, I'd go for the STR. But that's just me. Once you drive it, IMHO, maintenance will be the least of your concern. Well, that's my perspective. Probably not very helpful though.

 

id get a 2003 or newer for sure as others have already said. mechanical differences are huge and you get the interior update that staid with the car for the rest of its life (minus the gauges)

all of them are very reliable if taken care of. 4.2 non R cars are almost as hard to find as R's 3.0's probably account for 70% of all S types (in america at least). V8s are usually not much more or about the same as 3.0's Both are great motors.

and im with you, screw the XF lol