Greetings All,

I didn't see a similar topic in my searches, so please forgive me if this is old news. I had the dreaded spinning lug nut covers on my '02 S-Type, so went with the Dorman 611-117 replacements as suggested in other threads. As the African big game hunter said, so fari so goodi.

The tip I wanted to share concerned removal of damaged stock lug nuts. I saw lots of other comments about difficulty removing them. I used a 6-point 3/4" socket and breaker bar on the recalcitrant ones. I hammered the socket on while applying torque with the breaker bar. It worked like a charm. I had a flat tire last month and almost had the long walk home, thanks to one lug nut that almost didn't come loose with the factory wrench. If undecided on retrofitting the lug nuts, may I humbly suggest keeping a socket, breaker bar, and hammer in the trunk for peace of mind.

If any lug nuts had refused to budge today, Plan B was to cut off the cover with a small cold chisel and then use a socket on the steel core underneath. Looks like an 11/16" socket would be a tight fit on the core, but it should work. If not, an 18mm socket could be tried.

Hope this saves somebody some grief. Don't forget the retrofit lug nuts require a 21mm wrench. Harbor Freight (I know, I know...) carries a folding lug wrench (item #95932) that conveniently fits inside the styrofoam insert for the spare tire.

 

Good job, and great post. I hope it will convince even more S-Type owners to replace their lousy factory lug nuts before they get stranded high and dry. Replaced ours with the Mitsubishi lug nuts from my local Chrysler dealership more than three years ago and never an issue since. They still look and function as good as the day I put them on....

 

Same here - switched out the 2 piece lug nuts with 1 piece 13/16 lug nuts - you are correct if the 3/4" 6 point socket fails you can try a 19 MM - 6 point socket or 12 point if the 6 point fails... one more point - ensure you use anti sieze on the studs and torque to proper spec. (not meaning to open up a new topic - just my personal preference.

 

I tried rotating the tires and stripped the Tin cover off one nut. I'm going to take another look at it tomorrow and try to use the 11/16 or 18mm socket to get it off. Jeez but it's on tight.

 

Note that those choosing to use anti-seize on fasteners such as wheel studs must adjust the torque downwards accordingly. There are reference charts available on the web sites of many fastener specialists giving suggested adjustment factors.

As a general rule, lubricated fasteners should be torqued to 75 percent of the dry torque spec.

 

Well, today I was the victim of the astonishingly bad engineering of the factory aluminum lug wrench and the lug nuts with loose covers. I got a screw in a rear tire this weekend, and it was flat this morning. I thought, no biggie, I'll just put the spare on. The first thing I noticed was that the temporary spare, jack, and lug wrench had never been used on this 9 year-old car. Apparently my dad and then my brother had been lucky not to get flats. Or maybe my dad had had roadside assistance.

I jacked up the left rear wheel part way and then proceeded to loosen the lug nuts. Most of them loosened with a strong push of the wrench. On the plus side, the integrated washer in the lug nut is a great design and I think made for the smooth turning of the lug nuts once I had applied sufficient force. (The wheel was removed and put back on yesterday at a tire shop to look at repairing the leak (which was not a fast leak) using a pneumatic wrench, but I was present when the shop guy did it and he was careful. Of course I regret not putting the spare on then, when it was decided the tire was not worth repairing (bald, pretty much) and that I would have to spring for two new tires (getting Continental ExtremeContact DWSes in 235/50-17) which were not in stock on a Saturday afternoon. Well, while removing the lug nuts I noticed the factory lug wrench was getting deformed at its head and the black paint was flaking off. And then when I got to the fourth nut it screwed up the thin metal cover which is now rotated on the base of the nut so the lug wrench won't fit on. Unbelievable -- on the FIRST time the lug wrench had ever been used, it proved useless in removing all 5 lug nuts. And now, all the lug nuts I used the wrench on have at least slightly deformed covers, and the wheel has been damaged, too. In the 8 years 8 months since the car was bought the lug nuts had never been damaged, nor the wheels in the sockets where the lug nuts go (curbing is another story, unfortunately).

I'll try the sockets to remove the stuck lug nut as suggested in this thread. If I can't get it off, I'll hope I can get to the tire shop tomorrow (no problem yesterday -- it takes over four hours for the tire to get very low) and that they can get it off. I tried a standard 4-arm lug wrench with 17, 19, 21, and 23 mm sockets but none will fit on the lug nuts now (??). The 19 mm is too tight and the 21 mm is too loose. Maybe if I can hammer on a 19 mm socket I'll be able to get that one nut off.

I have been very impressed with the engineering and quality of my S-type till now, but this problem with the lug nuts and wrench floored me. Had no one at Jaguar actually tried using their ridiculous lug wrench on those lug nuts? Someone who was an ordinary person and not a technician/engineer? I had been warned on this forum -- and was "going to get around to" replacing the lug nuts, but (a) the lug nuts have not been a problem in 8-9 years on this car, (b) the tire shop seemed to be able to get them on and off just fine and didn't have proper replacements, and (c) I thought I would have some warning from the lug nuts that they were getting bad. Nope. First try I was unable to get all the nuts off. I think the problem is caused more by the idiotic OE lug wrench than the nuts. Soft aluminum that deforms on first use?? Maybe my technique could have been better. But the head of the wrench should not have been so soft. Aluminum is not a proper material for a wrench head -- at least not unless it's some very high-grade hardened / forged aluminum alloy.

 

Sorry to hear the dreaded lug nuts got you. One quick suggestion: Try a regular socket and breaker bar instead of a 4-way lug wrench. The tolerances on most sockets are much tighter than the typical lug wrench.

The outer shell on the lug nut will be deformed, so you'll really need to percuss the socket to get it to fit. The socket will be flattening the deformed cover as you hammer on it, so don't be afraid to use some effort. I used a 2-pound brass hammer and found that to be just about perfect. Wiggle the breaker bar back and forth as you seat the socket, to make sure the socket flats are aligned with the flats on the thick steel core of the lug nut. Once the socket is seated, continue hammering but now put your weight into the breaker bar to loosen the lug nut.

 

Always use a breaker bar. Never have an issue.

 

Thanks. Fortunately, the tire shop was able to get the lug nuts off without too much time and effort. Of my set of 20, four are bad, so now I have 4 nuts on each wheel. Before taking the car in for the tires I called the following potential sources of good, compatible lug nuts: local Chrysler dealer - none of the Mitsubishi-sourced MB 579290; the local Mitsubishi dealer -and surprisingly, they had no lug nuts in stock to fit an Outlander, which model's lug nuts were what another forum member has used; the local Pep Boys to check on the White Knight brand lug nuts some on the forum have used (not in stock). I dropped into the local AutoZone, and they had some lug nuts that fit a Mitsubishi Outlander that appeared compatible with the S-type, but the quality was not good, they were $2.99, the store only had 3, and they were in plastic bags so I couldn't actually try one on the S-type. The tire shop is trying to source some lug nuts for me. I may go with Toyota lug nuts. We bought a 2011 Sienna a month ago and we have $595 credit at the dealership to buy stuff, so I will check into getting Toyota lug nuts.

Looking at the Jaguar lug nuts and trying to understand why they are made the way they are, I can think of the following reasons. They don't rust (rusting is a common problem on lug nuts). They are lighter weight. They are probably cheaper to make. I'm still disappointed, especially in Jaguar's choice of weak aluminum lug wrench that got ruined on the third lug nut it had ever been used on. It's going in the recycle bin. A cross-type four-socket lug wrench (17, 19, 21, 23 mm) fits fine in the polystyrene carrier and I will just keep that in the trunk. I plan on keeping at least 5 of the OE lug nuts in the trunk after replacing all the nuts just in case the replacement nuts don't work with the temporary spare wheel.

On the bright side, I'm glad I had this problem with the lug nuts while at home, with a tire that would still hold enough air for about 6 hours to be able to drive, rather than out on the road.

 

Went through this myself and in the end the fix was quite simple.


Cause: The two piece lug nut is composed of a steel inner nut that that has a star shaped patterned of flanges around it, they then place a stainless steel hat over it that molds to the shape of a six point nut. Using an incorrectly sized lug wrench or in my case the OEM which was in the car that was minutely stripped to the point where it wasn't a perfect fit. Attempting to remove a stubborn lug nut with an incorrectly fitting wrench will cause the stainless steel outer shell to become misshapen and slip around the flanges of the inner nut.


Solution: Take a 19MM deep socket (I used an impact socket) and line it up with the lug nut, you will find that you will not fit over the misshapen lug nut covering. With the socket lined up with the sides of the nut, hammer it onto the lug nut all the way in. This will reshape the cover over the inner nut flanges. From there use a socket wrench with a breaker bar (or impact wrench) to remove the lug nut.
After I removed the lug nut, I used the socket as a mold and hammered/removed each of the other nuts I had taken off to ensure they had the proper shape before putting them back on. I also am replacing the factory lug wrench with a newer one from Jaguar.


There truly is no need to chisel away the cover to remove the lugs in these situations, nor is it necessary to replace them. Molding them back into shape and replacing your wrench with a properly fitting wrench will revolve the problem.

 

And I strongly recommend copper grease on the thread and flange to stop any galvanic corrosion between the nut, stud and alloy. I have cheap-ish after market alloys with an internal 12mm hex. Soon after buying the car I tried to replace the rusty nuts... 19 came of relatively easily, the twentieth required hammering an oversized spline in and a breaker bar with a 4 foot extension pipe. Now all of mine are fully greased and torqued correctly.

I hate the use of impact air gun by my local servo, recently after getting a wheel alignment... Ridiculously over torqued and near seized... As soon as I got home I removed each nut, re greased and torqued (85lb/ft - 115Nm).

I'm sure I will spark argument over these settings but they have done me just fine.

Cheers,

 

Jaguar specify NOT to use grease. At the least, adjust the torque if you do.

 

"Molding them back into shape" and then reinstalling the compromised lug nuts is a fool's game. Do so at your own risk - you will eventually regret it. Do the smart thing and replace them with a set of solid lug nuts as so many of us have....

 

This last weekend i settled in to do my rear breaks with new rotors and pads... 1st item is to loosen all lugs prior to lifting. 1st one no problem 2nd one, frik slip slip slip.... i had a brand new set of solid ones i had bought because i had heard of the issues with the factory. they weren't going to do me much good however if i could not get the old ones off. I immediately took the car down the street to the tire shop, i had a slow leak in one , so i needed to go anyway....i had them fix the leak and replace all lugs with the new ones i had purchased.. 1.5 hrs later i was back in the garage replacing my brakes....advice....get rid of those crappy lugs, they are a terrible design and will leave you or your loved ones stranded somewhere...

 

Just a small comment. I have the Dorman lug nuts and they are chrome plated and NOT stainless steel. The Chrysler ones are SS.

The Dorman units have a small amount of rust on them 3 years later but they are solid and will never fail like the factory capped lug nuts will.
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