new member
#1
new member
Ok so I will try and make a long story as short as possible.
I bought this 2001 S-type 3.0 which was making noise sounded like very noise lifters/rockers it did not sound deep (lower end).
After have it towed home it would not start, ( I believe it was driven on the flatbed) anyway everytime I turned the key it would just peg the gauges acted like it was seized or a bad starter.
I let it set for about 2-week (weather) get in it turn the key it runs again, still noisy, but runs. I see coolant at the tailpipe, I open the throttle body and I see signs of Dexcool in there also. So I checked the coolant tank was empty, so I added couple gallons of water and pressure test the system and the tank is empty again.
this time I start the car and start to pour water into the recovery tank and the engine starts quieting down, then comes to an abrupt stop. try and start it nothing the same as before, wont budge & pegs the gauges.
So my next step is to pull the 3 plugs I can get too (drivers) re-pressure test, water disappears but no sigh in those cylinders. (I have a scope at work I will have to bring home to verify)
So I am know ASSUMING the problem is with the passenger side head, either a gasket or catastrophic failure in a cylinder on that side.
I believe the reason it will not and did not start is because of hydro-lock and that while sitting for the two week the water exit the cylinder allowing it to start for a short period before locking again when I filled it with water.
So now I must check the passenger side plugs, it looks like I have to remove the upper intake and throttle body to get to them is that correct?
the reason I ask is I have removed the serpentine belt in order to eliminate the noise coming from any of the pumps.
My only fear is I my have disconnected whatever accessory that my be powering the oil pump?
Any and all support or advise welcome.
I tried to make it short but I had to be informative also
I bought this 2001 S-type 3.0 which was making noise sounded like very noise lifters/rockers it did not sound deep (lower end).
After have it towed home it would not start, ( I believe it was driven on the flatbed) anyway everytime I turned the key it would just peg the gauges acted like it was seized or a bad starter.
I let it set for about 2-week (weather) get in it turn the key it runs again, still noisy, but runs. I see coolant at the tailpipe, I open the throttle body and I see signs of Dexcool in there also. So I checked the coolant tank was empty, so I added couple gallons of water and pressure test the system and the tank is empty again.
this time I start the car and start to pour water into the recovery tank and the engine starts quieting down, then comes to an abrupt stop. try and start it nothing the same as before, wont budge & pegs the gauges.
So my next step is to pull the 3 plugs I can get too (drivers) re-pressure test, water disappears but no sigh in those cylinders. (I have a scope at work I will have to bring home to verify)
So I am know ASSUMING the problem is with the passenger side head, either a gasket or catastrophic failure in a cylinder on that side.
I believe the reason it will not and did not start is because of hydro-lock and that while sitting for the two week the water exit the cylinder allowing it to start for a short period before locking again when I filled it with water.
So now I must check the passenger side plugs, it looks like I have to remove the upper intake and throttle body to get to them is that correct?
the reason I ask is I have removed the serpentine belt in order to eliminate the noise coming from any of the pumps.
My only fear is I my have disconnected whatever accessory that my be powering the oil pump?
Any and all support or advise welcome.
I tried to make it short but I had to be informative also
Last edited by drowssap; 06-17-2013 at 09:47 AM.
#2
#4
thanks for the advice I can get a complete 70k mile 3.0 for under a grand, so I cant see getting to hurt if I'm all in a $2k.
Plus I just read that the EMS will shut the cylinders down one by one and them eventually shut down the motor in a case on overheating.
So it could be that what as happened (not having the serpentine belt on) so I will continue on my quest.
Keep the help coming any and all is welcome
Plus I just read that the EMS will shut the cylinders down one by one and them eventually shut down the motor in a case on overheating.
So it could be that what as happened (not having the serpentine belt on) so I will continue on my quest.
Keep the help coming any and all is welcome
#5
In your previous thread
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...uestion-95286/
on the same subject, the recommendation was given to get JTIS and JEPC. I can't imagine why this was ignored given that they're both free downloads nor can I imagine attempting to get deep into an engine without understanding it's basic configuration.
People here are very willing to help but............
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...uestion-95286/
on the same subject, the recommendation was given to get JTIS and JEPC. I can't imagine why this was ignored given that they're both free downloads nor can I imagine attempting to get deep into an engine without understanding it's basic configuration.
People here are very willing to help but............
#7
This suggests that more basic reading is required:
Advice:
If the coolant is disappearing that quickly and is finding it's way into the oil sump, don't start or crank the engine without changing the oil. It may already be too late.
If the coolant is disappearing that quickly and is finding it's way into the oil sump, don't start or crank the engine without changing the oil. It may already be too late.
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#9
So which is it?
#10
well when I check the crank case it was a quart low so I pretty sure it not in there, nor it is discolored or foamy in any way as well as the oil fill caps shows no signs of condensation.
After adding over 3 gallons of water during pressure testing the oil level did not rise either. so I have to assume it is in the cylinder or exhaust, since it is not on the ground.
so if you have any other questions (no answers yet) that you think make you fell smart keep them coming but so far I have not heard any thing from you that has been a help.
thanks again,
After adding over 3 gallons of water during pressure testing the oil level did not rise either. so I have to assume it is in the cylinder or exhaust, since it is not on the ground.
so if you have any other questions (no answers yet) that you think make you fell smart keep them coming but so far I have not heard any thing from you that has been a help.
thanks again,
Last edited by drowssap; 06-17-2013 at 12:48 PM.
#11
#12
#14
#15
Exactly.
#16
I have already pulled the 3 plugs on the driver side, did not see of hear anything entering those cylinders.
The car will not crank once again, which is way I believe the problem is on the passenger side and the intake will have to come off.
the fact that I could not get pressure to build but it took so much water as I gave it leads me to believe its either in a cylinder or in the exhaust.
I'm guess I will find a blow out head gasket or catastrophic failure on the passenger side.
I would think if I had over three gallons of water in the oil even for a short time it would be nice and milky.
The car will not crank once again, which is way I believe the problem is on the passenger side and the intake will have to come off.
the fact that I could not get pressure to build but it took so much water as I gave it leads me to believe its either in a cylinder or in the exhaust.
I'm guess I will find a blow out head gasket or catastrophic failure on the passenger side.
I would think if I had over three gallons of water in the oil even for a short time it would be nice and milky.
#17
#19
In the interests of not seeing a possibly salvageable engine damaged even more, please don't attempt to start it or even turn it over. Proceed straight to cylinder head removal.
My guess is that the previous owner allowed the engine to run low on coolant, it then overheated and warped a head.
The oil pump is not driven by an accessory (as illustrated clearly in JTIS) but conventionally like almost all other engines. I'm not that familiar with the 3.0 V6, but am not aware of an "EMS" that shuts down cylinders in response to an overheat. Can you point me to this info please?
My guess is that the previous owner allowed the engine to run low on coolant, it then overheated and warped a head.
The oil pump is not driven by an accessory (as illustrated clearly in JTIS) but conventionally like almost all other engines. I'm not that familiar with the 3.0 V6, but am not aware of an "EMS" that shuts down cylinders in response to an overheat. Can you point me to this info please?
#20
"you really should download a copy of JTIS and do lots of reading"
Fail Safe Cooling System
A unique feature of the V6 engine is the use of a fail safe cooling strategy, controlled by the EMS, in the
event of coolant loss leading to rising engine temperatures. The principle of the strategy involves
switching off one or more fuel injectors to inhibit combustion and reduce heat, thus allowing the flow of
ambient intake air to further cool the selected cylinders. By cycling the selected cylinders, ie switching
different injectors off for a period and in a sequence determined by EMS parameters, overall engine
temperature can be controlled sufficiently to allow the vehicle to be driven, at reduced power, for a
short distance. Throughout the malfunction period, instrument panel messages and warnings advise the
driver of the current status of the cooling system as described below.
Driver Indication and EMS Action
The fail safe strategy moves though different stages depending on engine temperature:
¥ Temperatures below 122û C (250û F) are within the normal range. At high temperatures below this
level the temperature gauge pointer enters the red zone.
¥ If the temperature rises to between 122û C - 127û C (250û F to 260û F) no action is taken by the EMS
which affects engine running but the following indications appear:
Temperature gauge pointer in red zone
Message Centre HIGH ENGINE TEMPERATURE
Warning light TEMP
Priority light red
Audible indicator single chime sounded
¥ If the temperature rises to 127û C (260û F) or above, the fail safe strategy operates. At 127û C (260û F),
the EMS will cut out one cylinder (the selected cylinder is varied) and as the temperature continues
to rise, this will increase to a maximum of three cylinders cut (with cylinder cycling). The following
indications are given:
Temperature gauge pointer in red zone
Message Centre ENGINE POWER REDUCED
Warning light TEMP
Priority light red
Audible indicator three chimes sounded
¥ At 166û C (300û F) or above, the fail safe strategy continues as described but the following
indications are given:
Temperature gauge pointer in red zone
Message Centre PULL OFF ROAD SAFELY alternates with TURN OFF IGNITION
Warning light TEMP flashes
Priority light red
Audible indicator five chimes sounded
¥ EMS shuts the engine down.
Fail Safe Cooling System
A unique feature of the V6 engine is the use of a fail safe cooling strategy, controlled by the EMS, in the
event of coolant loss leading to rising engine temperatures. The principle of the strategy involves
switching off one or more fuel injectors to inhibit combustion and reduce heat, thus allowing the flow of
ambient intake air to further cool the selected cylinders. By cycling the selected cylinders, ie switching
different injectors off for a period and in a sequence determined by EMS parameters, overall engine
temperature can be controlled sufficiently to allow the vehicle to be driven, at reduced power, for a
short distance. Throughout the malfunction period, instrument panel messages and warnings advise the
driver of the current status of the cooling system as described below.
Driver Indication and EMS Action
The fail safe strategy moves though different stages depending on engine temperature:
¥ Temperatures below 122û C (250û F) are within the normal range. At high temperatures below this
level the temperature gauge pointer enters the red zone.
¥ If the temperature rises to between 122û C - 127û C (250û F to 260û F) no action is taken by the EMS
which affects engine running but the following indications appear:
Temperature gauge pointer in red zone
Message Centre HIGH ENGINE TEMPERATURE
Warning light TEMP
Priority light red
Audible indicator single chime sounded
¥ If the temperature rises to 127û C (260û F) or above, the fail safe strategy operates. At 127û C (260û F),
the EMS will cut out one cylinder (the selected cylinder is varied) and as the temperature continues
to rise, this will increase to a maximum of three cylinders cut (with cylinder cycling). The following
indications are given:
Temperature gauge pointer in red zone
Message Centre ENGINE POWER REDUCED
Warning light TEMP
Priority light red
Audible indicator three chimes sounded
¥ At 166û C (300û F) or above, the fail safe strategy continues as described but the following
indications are given:
Temperature gauge pointer in red zone
Message Centre PULL OFF ROAD SAFELY alternates with TURN OFF IGNITION
Warning light TEMP flashes
Priority light red
Audible indicator five chimes sounded
¥ EMS shuts the engine down.
Last edited by drowssap; 06-18-2013 at 07:28 AM.