Excellent point, but one major drawback for you. Because you've shown interest, you are now Steve's minder.

 

I will take on the sparky bits if you proceed with the excellent go-juice pressure write-ups :-)

Pump seems to work. If it gets the right signal depends on the other input the ECU gets. Checking for spark is an easy job that can cut diagnosing time.
I fixed two dead pumps this month. Of course the pumps were okay. One was a cps the other a bad contact at a fuse in the boot. Life can be easy. ;-)

 

 

Okay Karl, I can do that metal strip test. I would need to know how and where to attach a gauge, what kind of gauge and what the pump specs are first, right? BUT BUT BUT.... I only got pressure to the fuel rail when I jumped the fuel pump from the #7 relay socket. I get zero pressure otherwise. Wouldn't I need to be getting pressure there normally without the jumper? Also when I released the pressure at the fuel rail it was pretty darn strong.
Today I'm going to go track down some of that thin brass metal as you suggested to check for wiggling relay sockets in #7. Question; if one of the sockets in that spot was flimsy, wouldn't I be able to leave the key on, go back there and wiggle the relay a bit, go turn the key off and then look at the schrader valve for pressure? Also, what if I do find a loose socket? Is there a clever way to put a shim of sorts in the hole to make it better?
Another test that I've seen in here that I haven't done is where I was asked to check for ground between the pump and the RECM. Not quite sure how to do that but would that have been resolved in the jumper test.
One test at a time here. It's been a month now, I'm determined to get this. I don't know how you thank you and all the other people that have added to this thread. I hope that all of my questions and fix it, test it, ideas you guys have offered will help someone else with a similar issue.
After this metal strip test I don't know what to check next. I've got all of these print outs regarding fuel and here are all the things I found that are suppose to have something to do with fuel: The Rear Electronic Control Module (RECM) , The inertia switch, the inertia switch 5 amp fuse #4 in the primary junction box under the dash on the passenger side, relay #7 in the boot, 15 amp blue fuse #17 in the boot, fuel pump diode in the boot, 30 amp fuel pump fuse in the boot (clear plastic one) #23, fuse 47 and 49 in the boot? Not sure on those, What about relay 8 and 15? I think they're under the hood. 20 amp yellow fuse #5 under the hood. Whew! Where's my 56 Chevy? Could you please shoot me with that tranquilizer gun again? Thanks, Steve

 

One test at a time. I get it about checking the sockets in the relay so I went on a scavenger hunt to try and find the EXACT size of metal strip to check this. My first idea was to look at the prongs on a regular household plug. Close but too thick. I went to Ace Hardware, OSH, Home Depot and even a huge metal supply yard, nothing. We don't have any hobby stores around here so I ended up at MIcheals. Do you all know about Micheal's ? SCORE ! I found these little guys in the jewelry section. They're the perfect size and thickness. I hope this helps others in the future. Stick some of these little guys in your test tool box.

 

Sorry, I was probably chasing a squirrel there myself. That suggestion was intended for down the road, if you got the pump to power up normally (no jumper), but the engine still wouldn't run. BTW, if we get that far, you connect a mechanical pressure gauge to the Schraeder valve.



I'm not sure your wiggle test with the relay installed would be a valid test. Let's say you do have a loose socket at the relay. For the pre-start prime, the pump only runs for a couple of seconds. You would have to be wiggling the relay at that exact time for the pump to run. It does no good to wiggle the relay later, after the command is no longer present. I'd stick to the physical test with the properly sized brass strip. If do you find a loose socket, we can worry about any repair then.

Also, please make sure you do the relay click test. Remember, you will need a helper for this. You should feel the relay click on as the key is turned to the on position, and then again as the key is turned off.


No, that would not have been resolved. The two jumpers to the fuel pump? One of those took the place of the ground in question.

This check would be one of the next steps. I'm going to have you do more than just check that single ground, but none of this is difficult. Go back to the wiring diagrams, figure 03.2.

Remove the R7 fuel pump relay. Disconnect the CA101 connector from the RECM. Page 29 in the wiring diagrams (page 31 of the PDF) shows the connector pin identification for the RECM. For the moment, we are only concerned with CA101, the far left of the 4 connectors in a row. To help identify it, note how this connector has 4 pins (1, 2, 11, 12) that are slightly out of line with the rest of the pins. Coincidentally, those are the 4 of the 6 pins we will be testing.

CA101-01 (GR wire):

1) Check for good continuity from CA101-01 to socket #5 at fuel pump relay R7.

2) Check CA101-01 does NOT have continuity to ground. (Continuity to ground here would indicate a bare spot in the wire touching the body.)


CA101-02 (B wire):

1) Check for good continuity to ground. This is the ground wire for the module and is supposed to be properly grounded.


CA101-11 (GO wire):

1) Check for good continuity from CA101-11 to CA101-12 (BR wire). This is a loop through the fuel pump. You should see several ohms (not sure of the exact value) as you are also reading the windings of the fuel pump motor. I believe the GO wire is considered the power wire, and BR is the ground that is switched on and off by the RECM to actually control the pump. By checking continuity of the GO and BR wires in a loop, you are checking both (and the pump) at the same time. I think BR is the ground wire previously suggested to check.

2) Check CA101-11 does NOT have continuity to ground. (Continuity to ground here would indicate a bare spot in wire GO or BR touching the body.)

3) If you have any doubts about the integrity of the loop, you can disconnect FP4 and check the two wires individually. Check each wire for good continuity end-to-end, and that neither has continuity to ground.


CA101-03 (OB wire). Although still in connector CA101, note this is NOT one of those 4 offset pins:

1) Check for 12V power. This should always be hot, regardless of the ignition switch position. This power comes via fuse F20 in the primary junction box (passenger footwell).


Now disconnect CA100 from the RECM. This is the smallest connector of the 4 in a row.

CA100-08 (GB wire):

1) Check for 12V power. It should be off with the ignition switch off. With the switch in RUN or START, you should see 12V. This comes via the inertia switch and fuse F4 in the primary junction box.






I do! Don't panic. You have two options, given slightly out of order. You can run the electrical checks given above. However, I finally found some info about how the antitheft system will inhibit the fuel pump operation under certain conditions. Since it's going to be a bunch of work to do those wiring checks, I'm lazy and would suggest doing the easiest stuff first.

Details of the antitheft system here, courtesy of Gus:


http://www.jagrepair.com/images/Trai...des/684_SG.pdf


Please note that training guide covers several models. Scroll down to section 6-44 for details on the X200 series ('00-'02 S-Type). The good stuff starts on page 6-50:

"Immobilization is accomplished in two ways:


1) The instrument pack will not activate the starter relay, preventing engine cranking. (doesn't appear to be your situation)

2) The PCM will not enable fuel pump operation or fuel injection. (Sound familiar?)"




Read on for more details, especially page 6-53. The bit I've copied above is worded poorly, in my not-so-humble opinion. It would seem the security system can inhibit the starter, and/or shut off the fuel pump/fuel injection. Depending on the circumstances, it can do one or the other, or both. My hunch is your security system, for whatever reason, has shut off the fuel pump and the fuel injection, but still lets you have the starter.

Two methods to check. I'd suggest doing both:

1) With everything connected as normal, lock the car with the key fob. Press the lock button a second time to set the alarm system. The horn should chirp once. Watch the little red light at the center base of the windshield. It should flash once every 15 seconds or so (not sure of the exact time) to show the system is armed. Now press the key fob unlock button twice to unlock all the doors. The red light should go out. Now hop in the driver's seat and turn the key to ON (Not start yet). The red light should come on solid ONCE for about 3 seconds and then go out. If it flashes anything after that, you've got a stored fault.

2) Disconnect the connector from any fuel injector. Pick one that is easy to reach. Plug a noid light into the harness connector. Turn the key to start for a few seconds and watch the noid light. If the injector is getting the normal signal, the noid light will flash. If the light does not flash, this would mean the injector run command is absent, most likely caused by the antitheft system.

 

@kr: before diving into twilight zone of the immobilized with our motivated friend I suggest a slight detour. Easy jobs first right?
In my humble opinion it is time to check the CPS first. We kind of know now that the pump works but lacks the signal to ground.
Two jobs left: CPS and immobilizer. All other sensors do not cut fuel pressure and/or spark I believe. Cam, o2 sensors and such will give error codes but not disable fuel or spark.
It is a fast check, check the onoffonoffonoff magnets at the back of the engine. These do fail, mine died and had exactly the same issues as Steve had.

 

I agree, sorta, but with one quick question. When your crank sensor went south, did you also lose the pre-start priming action? I get it that an invalid crank sensor signal would cause the loss of ignition and fuel injector commands. But would it also prevent the pre-start prime Steve is currently experiencing? Did you experience the same loss of fuel pressure as poor Steve?

I went through something similar with a Lincoln of the same era, which probably used the same basic FoMoCo logic as our S-Types. The symptom was cranking but no start, with no fault codes set. I can't remember how I diagnosed it, but I replaced the CKP sensor first thing and she fired right up. I have no idea if I had normal fuel pressure, as I never checked it. I'm not trying to bust your butt, but am just trying to get more details beyond the outwardly visible symptoms of cranking normally but won't start.

I fully agree with your suggestion to check the easiest stuff first. Can you please elaborate on checking the "onoffonoff magnets"? I'm not familiar with that, other than perhaps watching the RPM on a scanner while cranking.

We've thrown a lot of suggestions out there for poor Steve. What do you think of this order, based on probability and difficulty?

1) Click test at fuel pump relay R7

2) Check for loose sockets where relay R7 plugs in (he already went to the craft store...)

3) Watch the red LED for the antitheft system (can't get much easier than that)

4) Check the crank position sensor (need the step-by-step details from you)

5) Check for spark

6) Check the injector signal with a noid light

7) Check the wiring as previously detailed, probably the least likely fault

 

I just had another thought, to add fodder to the Great Antitheft vs. CKP Sensor Debate of 2018:

Pay close attention to the results of the spark test. The antitheft system has no effect on the ignition system. It can only disable the fuel pump, the injectors, and in some cases the starter.

A bad CKP sensor, on the other hand, will take out the injectors and the ignition. Still waiting to hear back if it can disable the pump, too.

 

You wrote: 'I agree, sorta, but with one quick question. When your crank sensor went south, did you also lose the pre-start priming action?'

No, it primed just fine but cut the pump while cranking. I checked with a meter on the Schrader valve. My 4.0 had no spark, no pressure while cranking and no error codes too. First thought was the pump too, but my pump was so extremely silent I could not hear it prime. A meter on Schrader valve proved that is was priming, so the pump should be okey enough to deposit fuel on the sparkplugs, even if was a bad pump. But the we dry all the time while diagnosing.

We will get you there Steve, hang in there bud.

 

Hmm, this seems to be a slightly different scenario than Steve has. He's not getting any priming action before start, but you did.

Steve, any updates? I'm especially interested to hear if you have spark, injector action, and what the little red light for the antitheft system is doing.

 

I was less correct than usual with the rate of flashing. On my '02, the light flashes approximately every 3 seconds when the doors are locked and the antitheft system is armed.

 

That would be good to know, a security fault would be a bigger problem than an electrical glitch.

 

Steve,

Where do you live? I'm about ready to catch a flight to your city, grab a taxi to your house, have the driver wait, watch the light for the security system, and then head back to the airport. I'll need the keys, though.

 

Hey Karl, thanks for reaching out to me again. My wife and I have had a rough week so far so I haven't done anything with the Jag. We had 3 deaths. One of my closest friends, a dear, sweet man my wife worked with and our awesome, one of a kind male cat. Dark cloud over our house now.
Back to the car.... I did the 'wiggle' test on the socket the other day. It all seems tight. I'm no expert here but my fear keeps leading me back to the RECM. The question looms with varying answers, is it or is it not plug and play. Like I said, a 2000 S-type just came in to the (somewhat) local wrecking yard. Not sure if I should grab the RECM or not.
One other step I want to take is go back over the other steps and double check the other fuses that are fuel related. There was one blown about 3 weeks ago that has been replaced.
No, I have not done the lock the car, alarm test. I will soon. Probably tonight. In my last epic novel I listed all the things I found to be fuel related and still wonder which ones of those things if not all need to be addressed. The Rear Electronic Control Module (RECM) , The inertia switch, the inertia switch 5 amp fuse #4 in the primary junction box under the dash on the passenger side, relay #7 in the boot, 15 amp blue fuse #17 in the boot, fuel pump diode in the boot, 30 amp fuel pump fuse in the boot (clear plastic one) #23, fuse 47 and 49 in the boot? Not sure on those, What about relay 8 and 15? I think they're under the hood. 20 amp yellow fuse #5 under the hood.
I just read your other post about the ground. I'll look at that too. I'm a little out of sorts right now with these deaths but I need to move on. Thanks again Karl

 

Steve, I am very sorry to hear such sad news for you and your wife. The car can wait, obviously.

It looks like I need to increase the tranquilizer dosage. Seems you've built up quite a tolerance.

No doubt you've been following Sarah's thread, but please keep in mind her symptoms are very different. She's got multiple intermittent faults, all possibly tied to that one component. You've got one rock-solid condition (no fuel pressure) that varies not one iota. It's also quite possible this condition is a normal reaction to a problem with the security system or crank position sensor.

Should you purchase that RECM as a precaution? Your call, but in post #48, I've listed seven easy steps to help identify or rule out any external factors affecting the pump operation.

Sounds like you've already checked for loose sockets for the relay, so you're down to six.

Watch the red light for the security system. Can't get any easier than that, and this is a big potential factor. Five to go.

Do the click test at relay R7. Another super easy one. This also tests the inertia switch, associated wiring, and some of the fuses. Four left.

Just realized we never got details of how to check the crank position sensor, as suggested by VortexXL. Hopefully he can chime in.

In the meantime, you can check for spark and injector signals. Those results will help determine if the pump has been deliberately inhibited or not.

While I don't know what's involved to check the crank position sensor, you could easily run the other tests above in less than twenty minutes. Only after that would I do the electrical checks on the wiring, but even that's just another twenty minutes or so. Throw in that ground mentioned in Sarah's thread, for good measure. Please note the ID may be different for your year, so double check the wiring diagrams to be sure.

So say you spend an hour total doing all seven checks. After that is when I'd consider a problem with the RECM. Remember, we mortals have no conclusive way to prove whether such a module is good or bad. All we can do is verify good inputs and outputs, followed by an educated guess. But based on probability, the module itself is dead last. It's free to investigate and rule out external factors, detailed in the seven suggested tests above, with a high probability of finding something. It costs money to gamble on an expensive module that may still require to be programmed, further increasing the cost.

Don't pull out the tranquilizer dart, it's for your own good...

 

Let's see if I can address them one by one. Most have already been covered.

In my previous post, I discussed my theory for determining if an electronic module is good or bad. In short, we can't really tell directly. All we can do is verify the inputs are valid and then see if the module delivers the appropriate outputs. We still have several inputs to validate, via the wiring checks given in post #46.


This is covered by the relay R7 click test. If the inertia switch is open, you won't get power to relay R7 socket #1. This is the power that energizes the electromagnet inside the relay. If the relay clicks, the input is valid.


Same conditions as the inertia switch, covered by the relay click test. If this fuse is blown or not making good contact, the relay won't click.





The click test covers the control input. That's half of the relay. The other half, the internal contacts that connect sockets #3 and #5? This is what routes power to the pump via the RECM. You've already swapped a known-good relay from the fog lights, and visa versa. If you want to go a little deeper, copied from post #38:


"Let's test the internal contacts of the relay. In theory, swapping a known-good relay from the fog lights should have been adequate, but the pump may draw more current and thus aggravate a marginal connection, so let's test a little deeper to be sure.

Set your meter to ohms and select the lowest scale. Touch your leads together and note the reading. This is the resistance of the leads themselves. The reading should be very low, only a fraction of an ohm. Now connect the leads to relay tabs #3 and #5. With the relay deenergized, there should be no continuity. Leave the meter leads connected to the relay.

Next we will use the battery to energize the relay. Connect one test lead from tab #2 to the battery's (-) post. Connect another test lead from tab #1 to the battery's (+) post. The relay should click as the electromagnet is energized. The ohmmeter should now show good continuity, only a teensy bit above the previous reading you took with the two meter leads touching. That tells us the internal contacts are closing properly and making a good connection."


Remember when you hotwired the fuel pump and it ran just fine? I had you draw power from relay R7 socket #3, which gets its power from this fuse F17. This verifies the fuse is good, it's making good contact in the fuse panel, and all associated wiring is good, too. Double check this one just to be sure, but previously it passed with flying colors.


This is part of the feed to relay R7 socket #1, which controls the electromagnet inside the relay. Covered by the click test.


I'm not seeing fuse F23 feeding the fuel pump. It controls Switched System Power Relay #4, which in turn feeds power to things like the rear defroster, door locking, some exterior and interior lights, etc. This power appears to be routed through the RECM but as best I can tell, it's not part of the fuel pump circuit. Are you positive about the "fuel pump" label at the fuse panel?


I'm not seeing any number higher than F31.


#8 is for the AC compressor clutch.
#15 is for the starter.


I'm not seeing this connected to the fuel pump. It powers the cooling fan module, the fuel injectors, the MAF sensor, and throttle actuator.

 

20 questions and one step at a time here...
Truth? I've never heard of a Noid light before I came in here. Now I know. Sort of. So I went out and bought one. Now, where to plug it in. Start by opening the hood. Look down. What do I see? Well, it aint my 56 Chevy. At first I didn't see 4 connectors for the fuel injector/coil overs but I saw one electronic connector going to the valve cover assy. I thought maybe that would be it. Since the car won't start I had my wife crank it over. No light on the tester. Hey! there they are, 8 nearly impossible to get to connectors right under the fuel rail. Well, lucky me I was able to pull one of them out of the socket. Put the Noid Light in. She cranked it. No light. From what I can see this Noid Light kit has 6 sizes but only 3 would fit. I assume they are all of the same value, just different pin sizes and positions. The instructions on the box say to start the car and the video on Youtube shows him starting the car. Is is safe to say you can check for spark just by cranking? How many questions is that? Ooops, that was another one.
Oh that click test. I passed. The number 7 relay clicked when the key was turned on and again when it was turned off. So I passed that test and failed the Noid Light test.
TEST RESULTS TO DATE: the pump works when you use a jumper from relay 7 and builds up pressure in the fuel rail
No loose sockets in the #7 relay spot
Haven't tested the pressure but it was quite strong when I did the jumper test
the # 7 fuel pump relay clicks
the red light blinks rapidly for the alarm test
not sure how to do the ground test between the RECM and the fuel pump
The noid light test appears to be a failure. Is that a test for spark and injector signal?
Not sure how to check the crank position sensor
My shoe is untied
tranquilizer dart is wearing off
She's been babied all her life, in mint condition inside and out... and now this. She's dying of thirst!

 

Does the PATS light continue to blink rapidly or start to blink a code after 60 seconds?

 

Steve, Steve, Steve,

Please do me a huge favor and sit on your hands before continuing to read. I don't want to be responsible if you get hurt slapping yourself silly.

YOU HAVE FOUND THE PROBLEM!!!

STOP!!!

DON'T DO ANYTHING ELSE!!!

Okay, I need to walk that back a teensy bit. The rapid flashing red light means the security system has deliberately inhibited the fuel pump and fuel injectors. You do not have a problem with the pump itself. It's not a bad fuse or relay. It's not that poor maligned RECM. (You're welcome)

Go back to post #46 and follow the link to that training guide. Copied for your convenience:

"Details of the antitheft system here, courtesy of Gus:


http://www.jagrepair.com/images/Trai...des/684_SG.pdf


Please note that training guide covers several models. Scroll down to section 6-44 for details on the X200 series ('00-'02 S-Type). The good stuff starts on page 6-50:

"Immobilization is accomplished in two ways:


1) The instrument pack will not activate the starter relay, preventing engine cranking. (doesn't appear to be your situation)

2) The PCM will not enable fuel pump operation or fuel injection. (Sound familiar?)"

Read on for more details, especially page 6-53. The bit I've copied above is worded poorly, in my not-so-humble opinion. It would seem the security system can inhibit the starter, and/or shut off the fuel pump/fuel injection. Depending on the circumstances, it can do one or the other, or both. My hunch is your security system, for whatever reason, has shut off the fuel pump and the fuel injection, but still lets you have the starter

With everything connected as normal, lock the car with the key fob. Press the lock button a second time to set the alarm system. The horn should chirp once. Watch the little red light at the center base of the windshield. It should flash once every (edit) 3 seconds or so (not sure of the exact time) to show the system is armed. Now press the key fob unlock button twice to unlock all the doors. The red light should go out. Now hop in the driver's seat and turn the key to ON (Not start yet). The red light should come on solid ONCE for about 3 seconds and then go out. If it flashes anything after that, you've got a stored fault."

At page 6-54 in that guide, you will see more details about the flashing light and how to read any codes. Please note if a fault is present, the light will flash rapidly for 60 seconds, which you have observed. After the 60 seconds of rapid flashing, the light will pause and blink out a code. Expect a code of 16 or higher, as those codes inhibit the fuel pump and injectors, but not the starter.

Report back to us what the code is. I'm not sure what the next steps will be. Reprogramming by the dealer may be necessary, but I'm not really sure. But for now, don't do anything else except read that code.