bklynchris.....an earlier poster defined, I believe correctly, that P1314 was defined as a bank 2 misfire / catalyst damage (check back to check). Early on you yourself were pulling a potential damaged catalyst code. Just because a code calls out two things doesn't mean they are both at fault. It simply means one or the other could be the problem.

Personally I've only had one catalyst go bad and that was on a Pontiac Fiero V-6 that I used as a long distance commuter car. On one of my weekly 250 mile one way trips to home on the weekend I felt the car get weaker and weaker as I got closer to home. When I finally got off the interstate with about 10-15 miles from home it became obvious that I had a serious problem, or at least I thought so at the time. The car simply had no guts, no acceleration, and even the speed was hard to maintain. Anything over about 65mph was out of the question. I managed to get the car back to my job at time by some judicious nursing and just maintaining a steady cruising speed. As the engine got hotter the problem would become more pronounced. I upshot was a simple catalytic gone south due to age and contamination. It was so plugged that as it heated the air flow inside would become progressively worse as the converter got swollen and the engine would become badly choked along both banks. A friendly mechanic removed the offending converter, installed a 'test' pipe and everything went back to normal.

Don't toss the earlier suggestion without a competent technician taking an unbiased look. I too agree with you that the service department is in CYA mode. Any decent manager would realize that if they had just replaced all the injectors on one bank along with the coils and they now (or still) showed codes for the entire bank as being defective that he would send the job to another tech at no charge to you and charge back the additional labor charges to the original tech. $1500+ is nothing to sneeze at when their is absolutely no improvement, and in fact the problem has worsened. Regardless of the eventual outcome I'd go to Jaguars zone or district office in person or in writing, lay out the chain of events, and file a claim requesting their assistance.

 

Sry your dealer gave you such a bad time of it. I wish everyone could have a Jag dealer like the one here in Minn. The X-type i just got had paperwork for every oil change some as low as 2100 miles apart. Slip after slip "warranty" amount due $0.
At least the members here are helpful and knowledgeable.

 

Physically verify that the components that were replaced on the correct side.

Download and read the diagnostic code pdf for related causes listed for each of the codes.

 

Thank you. I'm going to take it to another...hopefully competent mechanic and see what he says. I'm not going to rule out anything, it's just I have a hard time with the dealer saying the next step would be to replace the fuel injector(s) at 5.3k and that "might" fix the issue...especially after shelling out 1.8k only to make my car worse than it was. I appreciate your advice and I'm absolutely am going to report this to a district office. Thanks again

 

Absolutely...I'm going to get that done today!

 

I can't see how so many injectors could go bad at once. They just don't know what they're doing / how to diagnose faults.

 

Hi Forum, I just took my car to another mechanic and you guys were right, it's the CAT(s). The mechanic reved the engine and you could hear the rattling inside the Cat on bank 2. I'm going to go ahead and order 2 new CATs, (Hi flow..might as well) and go from there. Now that it looks like I'll have a little extra money, I'm going to throw a K&N cold intake in there as well. Any suggestions on which high flow Cat(s) work best? And thank you everyone for your input!!! I really appreciated it.Thanks

 

I think there might be an issue with the o2 sensors with non oem cats. But I will let the experts chime in.

 

...and later:

Horrific, everyone with a used Jag should be on this forum, an invaluable diagnostic resource. And I must make a note that P1314 could indicate either a misfire or a cat problem. And tell my dealer.

 

Not just P1314... any time you get a whole bank triggering miss-fire codes or even just when it idles fine...but triggers "restricted performance" when you get on it...

Everyone remember.... OBD codes are just guesses by the computer. They tell you what the computer "thinks" is wrong.

To the OP: I'm glad you got it sorted..if not totally fixed yet.
I would definitely take your issue up with Jaguar. The Jaguar dealer basically made you pay for coils that you didn't need.....

 

Originally, when the CEL/restricted performance lights first came on, the codes were P1314 and P1111 which, to my knowledge, indicated a problem with the coils/plugs on bank 2. When I took it to the dealer, they stated ALL plugs/coils on that bank should be replaced, which I did. When driving home from the dealer I gave it a good amount of throttle and bingo, the CEL/restricted performance lights came on. I took it back to the dealer and the new codes were P0302, P0304, P0306, P0308 and P1316. The dealer had the car for a week, claimed he had techs with over 20 years combined experience look at it and the fuel injectors are the next step in trying to fix the car. I mentioned what I learned from you guys in the posting, eg, Cats, vacuum leak, etc and the dealer stated that was all checked. Yesterday, the mechanic that works on my Tahoe put the car on a lift, revved the car and called me over and said it's the Cats...the one on bank 2...go figure. We could hear the rattling in it when the car was revving and the lights came on.....of course. 20 years of experience.....really...20 years ripping people off! The car isn't fixed as of this post and I can't say 100% the Cats will fix my issue, but it was kind of obvious. Since I'm replacing the Cats anyway, I'm going to get the Hi Flow kind and might as well do the intake as well....Funny how a costly repair is changing to a relatively inexpensive mod....hahaha....I'm just relieved its not another 6k repair. As much as I love this car, that might have been the proverbial "straw"

 

"Techs With Over 20 Years Combined Experience" Must Be 20+ Techs Working In There Lol

 

LMAO....agreed

 

I don't think you are going to see much benefit from the K&N, although opinions vary on that.

You already have a true "cold air" intake from the factory. The K&N will let warm air in from the engine compartment.

It will sound better and look cool though.
Vector

 

I think he meant a 20 year old tech with one year experience, lol!
Vector

 

or he could have ment a tech with 20yrs experiance that made a mistake since everyone is perfect and comes to the correct and Total conclusion the first time in their respective fields. that code is for misfires for that bank SEVERE enough to cause cat damage. Anyone think that the diag was correct but did not address additional damage caused by misfires severe enough to cause cat damage???? and that while he may have repaired the CAUSE, he missed the added damage which is NOT normal for this code. Sorry I justWISH I was as perfect and got it all correct the first time too, (thats my goal and most I work with) unlike my 2 doctors when they missed diag'd my cancer in 98 2times...cheers

 

I wanna be sure I understand this. Here's what bothers me:

Originally Posted by bklynchris
...The codes were P1314 and P1111...the dealer is telling me they checked the cats, O2 sensors, etc and all of that checked out.

If the misfires were a warning of imminent cat damage, how come the cats were already dead and rattling?
If there was cat damage but no misfires, why was code P1314 output?
Is there not some better test for damaged cats that a dealer can perform?

However, Brutal, point taken. I'd rather my doctor was right than my Jag dealer.

 

Point well taken, and I agree to a point.

You well know that I am one of the few in the forum world that will defend and promote dealer service, despite being an avid DIY person.

I still say there was a big difference here than with my very similar experience.

Remember: My experience with this issue was also entirely handled by a Jaguar dealer as well due to the Select Edition warranty being in effect.
Here is my scenario and how it was handled very different than the OP in this thread.

I got the restricted performance light and pulled my own codes. Again, it was all miss-fire codes yet the car ran just fine under light load. One of my codes was P1314 as well. I have a link in here to that thread...

I took it in to the dealer, explained exactly what was going on.

They tested the fuel delivery system (even replaced a fresh fuel filter). They also tested the coils (I'm 90% sure they did the same thing we do, move the coils and see if the code moves). They could not find a solid miss-fire.

They also couldn't get my car to do it while they had it. So, they asked me to come in since I said I could make it trip the MIL.

They hooked up a data logging scan tool up to the port and off we went. Tripped the codes... That day they said, "you need a new cat" and replaced it. My car ran fine after that.

See, my experience with Jaguar Cleveland was very different. They didn't just throw parts at a problem.

I will say that there does seem to be one thing missing from this. The OP "blklynchris" never did answer my question about how the car ran under light load. If it was missing and stumbling, then your scenario does make complete sense that consistent misses will damage the cat. So, a simple response by him should clear that up.

But I'm not bringing this up to pick a fight, just in this case I still think the dealer really botched this one up. Again, one of the things that my dealer, in my situation, brought up is that it is highly unlikely that all coils would fail at the same time on just one bank. Yea, they had my car for a while to fix it, but they wouldn't give it back until it was fixed.

So, to use your analogy regarding Doctors.... We use a hospital based family practice that has at least eight doctors there. We have gone through three of them that did not provide service that we thought adequate. Some of it is based on style. Now, my wife started taking the kids to the one she is more comfortable with, yet I have stayed with the last one. My point, no they aren't perfect, but when they do things that you aren't comfortable with, it is up to you to change it.

I agree that it is unfair to lump all dealer service together. I also feel it is really in everyone's best interest to find a professional that you are comfortable with even if you are an avid DIY person like me.

I have a dealer for the Chrysler if I get in a jam... I have yet to find one for the Benz.....

 

All great points Jeff, misfires(anything that can cause cat damage actually) DO NOT often have immediate results. Most are the result of issues over time or just time/mileage itself. A case in point was a engine I replaced 3 yrs ago on a XKR that seized when the owner mistook it for his boat during a Texas rain storm.
I replaced the engine with a Used engine that Geiko only wanted to pay for(I hate used stuff because half the time I have to do it again for failure of the used part) and then ended up putting a remanned Jaguar engine in for failure of the junkyard engine. Anyway his car has run great but came in a few months back complaining about a rattle noise from passenger side. He couldnt tell me while driving or stopped, angine , trans suspension etc....well I drove it and never heard a noise but did find a broken curved control arm bushing on the right front in addition to front end damage(he likes to drink and drive or is a terrible driver since there always seems to be some new minor damage everytime he comes in) So replaced the control arm and aligned under slect ed. comes back 2 weeks later saying its still doing it and this time I hear what he's talking about as its NOW doing it just idling and sounds like a rock in a can. no check enginelight on etc or bad performance. Pass cat coming apart and rattling. Now he was hearing it and the first time I never did, why? Probobly because it wasnt rattling but wedged when I listened and drove. Then it became bad enough to do it all the time and was no mistaking the noise if youve heard before, even rattled more on revving. I feel that the damage was maybe from the engine damage way back when or maybe just cause he hits stuff(shrug) Im not a forensic mechanic )
anyway now you know your issue which is good. I can tell many a story going the opposite way for indie and dealers. I get calls all the time from friends(so called) at indie shops trying to fix or diag a Jaguar. I quit helping because it just takes money out of my pocket indirectly/directly. Owners dont seems to bitch when theyre getting screwed for $90hr, only when it $125hr+.and from the PERFECT dealerships..sic lol
As Jeff and I have pointed out many times. Find someone you like/trust and is good and stick with them no matter where they are. Talk to techs not just the advisor/sales. Ive made plenty of mistakes over the years and at the time I felt I was correct or I would have done something else. Im not going to even get in all the pay dynamic between indie and dealer techs either casue its too long and time consuming.
Just remember that paying more does NOT = perfection. sa,e with the car, cant count how many times a yr I hear "a $60-100k car should not be doing that(insert complaint)"
remember Jesus hasnt returned to earth yet, didn't he build your car, and even though Jesus works here, he's from Mexico and is a porter
have a great day guys

 

BRUTAL... You sir are a hoot!

Your bits of wisdom always put a smile on my face....

Well said, and soooo true.. I love the 90 an hour vs. 125 comment...

I would much rather pay 125 to be treated right by a guy who knows my car than save a penny...

On a sad side note... Mike Shoda is no longer with Jaguar Cleveland (the service manager).

He was the guy that would take you (the customer) back to talk to a tech. Even he said.. "I know the common stuff, but the real expert is [insert tech's name here]."

Not sure why he left, but rumor has it that it's not the same place since...