The alpine amp is garbage when it comes to pushing subs. It's 40 watts per channel RMS at 4 ohms, but at a high level of distortion.

I wouldn't use it or try to use it to power aftermarket subs.

What you need is a line ouptut converter, an aftermarket 100 watt per channel RMS amp at least and two decent aftermarket subs.

I mean you could hook up either new sub to the Alpine amp, I'd make sure to get a freeair design in either case, but look at this way, trying to power them off the factory amp would like trying to run an STR under boost, but limiting fuel pressure to 30psi on the rail. It's like restricted performance for audio.

It's not that hard to hookup an aftermarket amp. I have my amps in the spare tire well. (My car is completely aftermarket). I also built a false floor for my trunk, although it's not 100% done yet. I should put up my setup as a sticky or something considering how many PM's I get about it... LOL .

Take care,

George

 

George lets say I stick wit the Stock Alpine AMp. The stock Alpine Amp isn't pushing 4 oHms its about 2.6 almost for each Sub. In this case which one would I be better off choosing a 2 oHm Sub or a 4 oHm sub?

I found this interesting tid bit on Crutchfields website on Car Audio......As a rule of thumb IT IS ALWAYS BEST TO MATCH THE IMPEDANCE OF THE SUB TO THE OUTPUT IMPEDANCE OF THE AMPLIFIER! Always. This is why iF you connected a sub running at 8 ohms, to an amp running at 4 or 2, the resistance would be great and the amp would run hot. When this happens it over heats and eventually shuts down resulting in returns. If the amp is running at 4 ohms and the sub is running at 1 or 2 then the sub gets pushed harder to compensate and the voice coils will generate more heat and lock up. The only variance available in wiring is thirds. You can use an amp at 4 ohms to 3 subs totally 3.33 ohms. Thats ok. It is not a good idea to run something even a half ohm off, although its not as bad as being a complete unit off. ALWAYS matching your subs to your amp will not only give you your best efficiency but the most dependability.

Jason from PIMP my ride found the reading with the Volt meter of the how many ohms each sub was pushing out, it was roughly 2.6 oHms as stated by him.

 

That whole paragraph you quoted is fundamentally wrong. Whoever wrote that doesn't have a clue about electrical theory.

Amps Do not Push ohms. They push Current. The amount of current depends on the impedance of the load. The lower the impedance, the MORE current HOWEVER amps are only stable to a certain impedance, after which you will overload the internal FET transistors, and in laymans terms blow them up.

Higher impedance will NEVER hurt an amp. The overall amount of power output will be reduced, but the amp will run cooler and at a fraction of it's potential.

The reason people try to match impedance to what the amp is rated to is to get the maximum amount of power out of the amplifier SAFELY. Higher impedances will reduce the power output, lower impedances may be harmful to the amp. End of story.

Considering the commercially available choices are 4 or 2 ohm subs, you don't want to go LOWER in impedance than the stock speakers, because you will increase current in the amp (and may hurt the amp). So you're stuck with 4 ohm subs, and thus putting even less power than stock into them with the factory amp (if it's designed to put a 2.5 ohm load).

Honestly, Just get an additional amp or leave it stock. Not worth upgrading just the drivers.

Take care,

George

 

Hey George

So I found out I definitely have the standard audio system - just 4 speaker outs.

I spoke to a local fitter, who installed the Parrot MKi9200 handsfree kit for me, and he mentioned that to fit new front speakers plus my amp and sub, he would likely take the rear speaker feed into the amp to power the sub, and run the fronts (some upgrade 6x8s - likely Pioneer 687) off the factory HU.
He acknowledged that this would produce inferior results to running the fronts also from the amp, but seemed to think that there may be a problem having the parrot system coming through the speakers if we were to also run the front speakers off the amp.

Im afraid I dont know enough about how the Parrot wires into to factory HU's to understand this.

Any advice?

 

Sadly, this is why I never use Parrot handsfree setups. They do not play nice with audio upgrades.

I have a Motorola T605 kit. Doesn't have the fancy display but has it's own powered speaker for phone audio, AND streams bluetooth music from my iphone to one of the aux inputs on my pioneer deck. It also has the option of line level (instead of speaker level) phone audio if you want to run it through your head unit.

Here's what the Parrot does. It wires Between the head unit and the speakers (using it's own amplifier for the phone portion). When a call comes in, it disconnects the output from the head unit, and connects the speakers to its on internal amp to push the calls.

There IS a way to make this work. However you may have to play with the volume control of the Parrot to get it just right.

You need a line level converter to connect your stereo to the amp. INSTEAD of wiring the line level converter to the stereo, wire it to the output of the Parrot. That way the FRONT RCA's will be either the stereo ouput or the intercepted phone output. You will have to set the phone or kit output to match the level of audio, so that the phone isn't ridiculously loud compared to the music.

I hope this makes sense. Run this by your installer and see what he has to say.

Take care,

George

 

Thanks George - I'll think on that and chat about it to my installer.

The reason I bought the parrot is less about the phone kit ( I have BT module on the factory unit), and more about the iPod/USB integration. I didnt realize that it actually worked like that.

I rarely listen to the radio, or CD, and instead almost always listen to music on the iPod.
So the solution I end up at should use my directed 4ch amp for the iPod audio (ideally all audio), and not user the parrot amp (I actually quite like Class D designs - I use a pair of Hypex UCD400HG HxR monoblocks in my mastering rig - but this parrot amp seems pretty mediocre)

If I have to use a different means to connect the iPod and rip out the Parrot, that would be ok, but I do want a solution that allows easy navigation of large music collections.

One other option Ive been considering (though a bit more expensive) would be using a Clean Sweep. My idea would be to have the Parrot go into the additional input on the Clean Sweep. Not sure if the parrot can do this though?

PS: This is the directed amp: Old Skool Directed 200 - Member Galleries - Gallery - Talk Audio

Its a model long since discontinued - but it sounds good. Be open to other options if it made anything easier, or made a noticable positive improvement to the audio quality.

 

I Love old school amps.

My car has a Coustic 4.360 powering the front stage, and a sounstream picasso 4.880 powering the sub.

I have my two crown Jewel amps stting for when I get my STR.

First an ESX by Zed Audio Q.175x2

A brief description:

ESX Quantum 1752 stereo amplifier. Class A/B. 175Wx2 into 4ohms, 250Wx2 into 2ohms. Can be bridged into any load from 1 to 4ohms for 460, 450, and 500 rated watts, respectively, @ 12V. The amplifier does this through use of selectable synchronous bridging, high-voltage, and true mono modes. The synchronous bridging feature allows for symmetrical clipping, which is an improvement over the a-symmetrical clipping found in most bridged car amplifiers. The Q1752 can be strapped with an identical amplifier for 900W into 2 or 4ohms. Crossover is 12 dB/oct. stereo, 24 dB/oct. bridged mono. Fully adjustable from 50 to 4.2k Hz, switchable high/low, with line output. Bass boost variable from 0-18 dB centered @ 43Hz. This amplifier has both unbalanced RCA-type inputs, which handle up to 9V, as well as miniature 6-pin DIN socket balanced inputs, which handle up to 18V.
If you want to bridge it , use the true mono switch ( switch it with amp off )
The power ratings are with 12v , so if your system puts out a healthy 13.8 / 14.4v be gentle on the gains .
I would recommend a 12w6v2 , BUT the amp will do considerably more than 500 watts bridged . You might want to consider a sub with approx 750 rms .. Unless you KNOW your electrical system only does 12.5v steady and you want to tune the gains down .

Then a Soundsteam Picsasso D.900.

It does 900X1 at 1 ohm or 2 ohms, 450x1 at 4 ohms.

The two of them will power my STR when I get it.

Take care,

George

 

I do like the Picasso Amp, nice, I used a Soundstream "Rubicon" and used a Memphis Amp for the subs. Got pics of it in my Albums with some details, take a look.

 

Funny you say that...

I saw your install. I've been meaning to tell you, I have a custom built amp rack for my X-Type you might want. I think it will work well with your install. I need to find a pic of it, don't think I have one at work.

I'll keep you posted.

Take care,

George

 

Thanks for the thought "Androulakis", but thats ok, those days are over for me.

 

Hey George

I picked up a Clean Sweep cheap from ebay.

My idea is to have the speaker outs from the HU go into the main inputs on the Clean Sweep, then have the parrot line level outs go into the auxiliary inputs on teh Clean Sweep, with auto input sensing enabled to over-ride the HU outs if a call comes in, or I activate the Parrot manually.

The Clean Sweep then has two sets of line level outs.
Im going to split on of the outs into 2 and connect to both stereo channels of my Directed amp for front and rear speakers (going the simple route of direct 6x8 replacements - Pioneer 687s - for the front, leaving rear standard).
The second line out from the Clean Sweep I plan to feed a monoblock to power my sealed JL Audio 10" sub.

So, what I'm missing is that monoblock, and wondered what you or others would recommend?

It doesnt need to be hugely powerful (far preferring quality over SPL, and the sub is only relatively small).
Trying not to break the bank so looking for good bang for buck...

Thanks in advance!

 

I've got an awesome monoblock for your application I'd sell you cheaply, but I dont know how it would work with shipping / customs over the pond. It's a Soundstream Picasso PIC D900.1. 480x1 @ 4 900x1 @ 2. Last of the oldschool handcrafted in the USA Soundstream amps.

Let me know if you'd be interested.

Take care,

George

 

Hey George thanks for the reply.

If I were closer I'd likely take you up on that, but the shipping and customs costs might be an issue.
How much are you thinking of?

Any recommendations of new amps as an alternative for this application?

 

For someone that would put it to good use, I'd let it go for $175.

It's pretty much flawless cosmetically too..

Hrrm the JL Audio amps aren't bad, Maybe Alpine...

Sadly, Car audio has gotten so passe and commercialize that all the "good" brands have sold out to turn into the typical made in China garbage.

Let me know if you want pics of it.

Take care,

George

 

Quick update, just finalizing my purchases to prepare for a build

Plan is this:

- HU (non premium audio, nav system) speaker out to cleansweep speaker in
- Parrot MKi9200 line out to JL Audio Cleansweep line in, with auto input sensing switched on
- JL Audio Cleansweep line out 1 split to two inputs on Directed old skool amp powering front and rear door speakers
- cleansweep line out 2 to monoblock powering the sub

George has convonced me of the benfits of components vs uprated coaxials for the front doors.

Only oustanding question I have now is which components to go for for the front doors.

Probably going to go for MB Quart unless there are good alternative recommendations at the same price point?

So 6.5" with tweeter mounted side by side with mid driver?

Or 6x8" with tweeter mounted on front pillar or in door by wing mirror....

Thoughts?

 

Hi guys. I thought I'd add some info on my current project into this thread. I currently have a 2004 with the alpine (nav) system. The speakers are stock except for removed subs in the rear deck. I also have the stock alpine amp going into a kenwood 9104d which is nice because it has auto turn on and is really cheap considering it puts out decent power.

I am also running a 12" ported boss enclosure that I got for free a while back. It's okay but the ported enclosure overwhelms the system and makes the lack of mid bass apparent. I'm replacing it with a elemental designs 13ov.2 12" woofer in a 1.13 cu ft3 sealed enclosure. It's super small and the woofer has tons of excursion to really kick out the bass. It'll have good output with audiophile type level sound quality.

I'll try to get some photos of this thing on here. I have a side by side comparison of the ed to the stock alpine sub.

One question... I have a stock very high end (approx $500 a set) rockford fosgate fanatic q set of 5 1/4" compoent speakers sitting in my garage. Will these be a direct bolt in to my door panels? How much depth do we have there? These things have pretty good sized magnets.

Also, has anyone done the q forms kick panels on our cars? There was one car (an s type) on the internet that I saw a while back. If I did this, I'd probably run some kind of amp in the trunk and get a device to mate it to the stock system. The front stage would be more pronounced and the power would be clean.

 

here's the side by side...

 

Buy these:

5X7 6X8 TO 5 1/4 5.25 SPEAKER ADAPTER PLATE MID KIT | eBay

That will let you bolt that 5.25" in place of the stock 5x7. Depth is NOT an issue.

Pass on the q forms, they need a lot of reinforcement not to rattle. Do they even make an S-type specific one?

Take care,

George

 

Nope, I don't think they do. I just saw a "universal" set one guy had installed when I was checking out photos of s types on the internet.

 

For the most equalized path lengths in the front stage, I'd actually mounting the tweeters in the kick panels, that's how my X-Type (with boston proseries components) is setup.

Now, as far as 6.5 v/s 6x8. The only real component system worth looking at with a 6x8 is the infinity 680.9cs kappa series components. You'll gain a BIT of midbass via the larger cone area, and have a bolt in fit, BUT your stuck with the somewhat shrill infinity tweeter. Once you have the door panel off, take some double sided tape, and mount the tweeter in the different locations and listen before you decide on a final placement.

The 6.5 is a bit more complicated to mount (although there are commercially available adapter plates), BUT they make much better components in 6.5". It really all depends on what you want to do and how far you want to take it.

Take care,

George