It may not have. At first look the redesign S-Types also seem to have a different firing order compared to the original cars. Except - they share essentially the same engines so it didn't seem like it could be true. And it isn't: the cylinders are numbered in a different way and if you figure out which actualy cyls are firing you find the physical order is the same as before. So, did you check in case GM also renumbered the cyls compared to the older LSx? (Jag's numbering went from their own way to the ISO way of doing it.)

If the actual LS3 firing order is OK for (say) and EEC-IV then at least you should be able to run it

But.... the rest of your list of issues is fairly scary

 

I was told sometime in the past that the the earlier LS3 firing order was different from the older LS1 and LS2 engines. NOT! Looks like all LSx engines are the same. All LSx engines appear to have the same firing order as Ford Modular V8 engines. My era Lincoln LS and Jaguar S-types have a different firing order.
This is encouraging for migrating to an earlier ECM, be it Ford or GM.

As I have been digging deeper in to the 2008/9 Pontiac G8 engine, I am encouraged with how many parts are turning out to be the same.

Attached is a chart showing some Firing orders.

 

Thanks for that PDF. It confirms the S-Type isn't the same as the LSx.

That PDF uses the old-style S-Type cylinder numbering, but it makes no difference to the outcome.

The old & redesign S-Type numbering is about page 82 of the Vehicle Specifications here https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/a...achmentid=2914 in case anyone reading doesn't already have it.

 

I put together a pretty good list of most of the P/Ns for things like sensors, injectors, coils, and O2 sensors, that are associated with the engine and ECM for several GM LSx engines. It looks like the best ECM change with the least amount of component part changes is the 2009 Pontiac G8. (The Camaro and G8 both use returnless multiport injection fuel scheme. The older LSx engines use a return loop type system, and lower flow injectors.) I am fairly sure that the G8 doesn't have Global A security features. I am just starting to look into what is needed to support a conversion to a Ford EEC PCM.

 

I received some information about running a LS3 via an EECV controller. He stated that it has been done on an LS1, (5.7L not my 6.2Lbut he said I would need someone with a dyno and a "tuner" who really knows what he is doing. He thinks it would cost a lot of money and time to get the car to run as good as the stock LS3 ECM. Plus Ford has migrated to OHC/DOHC engines on late model cars If you try to use a Ford Windsor PCM it it an EECIV, which wont work with the Jag CAN system. Thus you have to do some "tricks" to an EECV or EECVI to make it will run with one cam.

One would have to find the closest baseline tables, functions and Scalars, that would get the engine running, and then tune the engine. Could take a lot of Dyno time = $$$ He estimated $2K to $5K to get the engine tuned properly.

It's not looking good running a LS3 via a Ford EEC.

Anything else on the drawing board we haven't looked at?

 

I think you'll find the 2000 jag you have doesn't have CAN

 

I know that. It was just faster to write CAN than J1850 PWM bus network. I'll try to be even more exact in the future.

 

YEAH!
My Griffin radiator arrived yesterday. The assembly fit perfect, and there is lots of room between the front of the engine and the Spal fan packs!

 

Joe, Is it me or is that upper rad hose going to have one hell of a bend when it comes out of the water pump to avoid the back of the fan?

George

 

Are you talking about this line? I put on a stock Camaro hose assy to check fit. There should be no problem getting a perfect fit after a quick trip to the auto parts store and sorting through their different hoses to find the perfect one. (The hose going to the engine is collapsed just a bit, otherwise it fits great.)

 

There's more room than I thought.

Joe, I think if you were to cut off maybe 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch from the edge of the radiator side of that hose to ease the angle on the waterpump side, you would be fine.

My bad that I'm expecting a mechanical fan in all this mess. I looked at that and expected to see a fan clutch and a fan, and was like how the hell is he going to fit a hose in there lol.

Sorry, it's been a long week already.

George

 

A guy in our car club swapped a Chevy 350 V8 and gm automatic tranny into a Jag....I don't remember which model but it was something from the mid-80s, and a two seater with a small jump seat in the back...aa convertible as I recall. I know it drew a lot of attention at the car shows and it ran very well. It was his daily driver for over a year and very dependable....sounded good, too.

 

Yeah that's an XJS.

Those conversions have been documented for years, using the old Iron block small block chevy motors and th350 or 700r4 transmissions.

Pretty cool car and decently reliable when the chevy drivetrain goes in.
There's one for sale here locally that for some reason someone swapped a chevy 4.3l v6 into... Go figure on that one.

George

 

TiJoe maybe worth a look, since you can fully program the PCM to do as you wish
http://www.motec.com.au/downloads/downloaddatasheets/

 

Thanks for the link to MoteC. The issues I am dealing with are associated with integrating the GM ECM messages to the S-type electrical, not how to get the engine running. An E38 GM ECM can be programmed to operate as a stand alone controller to run the engine. The challenge is to link the ECM messages back to the body and chassis control functions. I am in the middle of researching another approach that I hope will work out.

 

Well the new motec has programmable CAN CAN2 signals which is why I suggested it. It gives you the ability to *trick* the BCM and other modules and should make the hybridization easier since you should be able to program what signal to what module out of what channel if I've read it correctly it should be your missing link. It can also act as the can gateway.

As it was explained to me being a network engineer and EE canbus is capable of mixed protocols you just need the proper gateway to interpret the protocols so that all the modules can talk

 

I think the MoTeC products are really great. I downloaded their catalog and I read all I could in their web page, but I couldn't find any reference to their controllers being able to output the standard ODBII messages that are required here in the states to meet our EPA requirements. Perhaps I just couldn't find this capability in the documentation I found. The CAN outputs I saw have to do with converting RS232 signals to CAN format for GPS telemetry and Data communications to their display units. Even if their (Serial to CAN) adapter could work as a gateway, I saw no indication of any PID or message conversions for either Ford/Jag or GM messages. I saw no indication that their message outputs comply with ISO 15765. Also my 2000 S-type Jaguars doesn't use CAN, it uses the older J1850 PWM message format.

Keep looking!

On a side note: Building a black box/controller that would interface between a CAN bus sytem and a J1850 PWM system is straight forward and relatively simple. Just pick out a processor that fits your needs, add on a CAN transceiver and a J1850 transceiver. Writing S/W is straight forward but time consuming. The difficult part is collecting all the messages and figuring out what they do and what ones you need to translate. Added bonus! You have to do this for 2 cars! The Jaguar and the GM ECM/BCM. All this hard work will probably only work for the one car. Different model cars have different controllers and messages. People I've talked to, Intrepid and Drew, have estimated 1000+ man hours to do this. For now, there appears to be no cost effective way to make a universal converter, thus there is no money in it, thus no off-the-shelf products for what I want to do.

 

Hmm, I've exchanged a few emails with them as I'm frustrated not able to tune my PCM and as they explained they do have an EMU( engine management unit) that is able to communicate with the factory modules as long as you know how to program the outputs on the naive bus. Which with an easy to use interface should be a straightforward process

Haltech also has an emu that is capable of acting as a gateway.


Both of these companies cater to people such as yourself making the next to impossible happen.

AEM has made leaps and bounds but I'm not sure it's capable of comuniticating with other modules yet. AEM is making vast progress fast but I'm not 100% where AEM is with thief gateway projects

 

Quick update.

I have been slowly hooking up things to the engine. As I install peripheral items, I keep having to purchase and order more small parts.

-Trans oil cooler system. Done
- Power Steering. Lines in place but not bolted down/together
- Heater lines - Done
- Engine oil cooler and oil thermostat. 90% done, waiting on AN fittings.
- Main radiator hoses. Waiting on a straight out thermostat housing to arrive.
- A/C: - I am still not sure how I want to plumb things together. (Jag uses expansion valve, GM uses orifice tube. Haven't researched if 2010 GM compressor will work with Jag Expansion valve.)
- Drive shaft due to ship Dec 2nd.

I have decided what I am going to try to do regarding the car's electrical system, and am slowly purchasing parts as I can find them at reasonable prices. I'll not elaborate on this until I get farther along electrically.

At the rate I am going, it will be another 3 to 6 months before the car is running. If I could put greater than 5 to 10 hours per weeks, I suppose it would go together faster.

Joe

 

Looking forward to seeing it run!