Qwiketz intake elbow thread including pics and dyno charts
#161
05-03-2012, 10:14 AM
Veteran Member
Very Important Install notes- I haven't done the video yet but will shortly. In the mean time, here are some basic tips/notes:
1. with a damp rag, wipe off the inside of the tube to remove any shards from the drilling of the tube. I forgot to do this prior to shipping since I was rushing. Do this twice to ensure that no metal shards are on the tube when installed.
2. 3 of the t bolts are 3.5" and 1 is 3.75". Locate the 3.75 and keep track of it. This will save you time later. The t bolts have the size imprinted from the factory.
3. I shipped 8" of the 1/2 hose. You will need to cut this to length. Install the tube first before doing this.
4. put soapy water on the inside of the silicone connectors so they slide on easier. If you wrestle with the cast iron intake elbow, you stand a chance of working it loose and creating a vaccum leak.
5. make sure that the t bolts do not hit the hood!!!!! There is very little clearance so I put them off to the side with the nut facing vertically and the exposed threads facing downward.
6. On the cam cover fitting, there is a ridge where the flex hose starts about 3/4" - 1" after the fitting. I chopped mine here using a pair of normal scissors. A sharper pair is better for a cleaner cut but I just wanted to confirm that you could even do this with the most basic household stuff.
7. You're going to want to allow a little space between the mass air meter and the tube so position the silicone accordingly.
8. On the same note, don't push the tube far into the transition elbow to the cast aluminum intake elbow. Get it in there enough to have the t bolt on there solidly, but there should be at least an inch between the two for the airflow to transition from round to oval.
1. with a damp rag, wipe off the inside of the tube to remove any shards from the drilling of the tube. I forgot to do this prior to shipping since I was rushing. Do this twice to ensure that no metal shards are on the tube when installed.
2. 3 of the t bolts are 3.5" and 1 is 3.75". Locate the 3.75 and keep track of it. This will save you time later. The t bolts have the size imprinted from the factory.
3. I shipped 8" of the 1/2 hose. You will need to cut this to length. Install the tube first before doing this.
4. put soapy water on the inside of the silicone connectors so they slide on easier. If you wrestle with the cast iron intake elbow, you stand a chance of working it loose and creating a vaccum leak.
5. make sure that the t bolts do not hit the hood!!!!! There is very little clearance so I put them off to the side with the nut facing vertically and the exposed threads facing downward.
6. On the cam cover fitting, there is a ridge where the flex hose starts about 3/4" - 1" after the fitting. I chopped mine here using a pair of normal scissors. A sharper pair is better for a cleaner cut but I just wanted to confirm that you could even do this with the most basic household stuff.
7. You're going to want to allow a little space between the mass air meter and the tube so position the silicone accordingly.
8. On the same note, don't push the tube far into the transition elbow to the cast aluminum intake elbow. Get it in there enough to have the t bolt on there solidly, but there should be at least an inch between the two for the airflow to transition from round to oval.
#162
05-03-2012, 10:26 AM
Veteran member
Sometimes if you let it get warm (set it outside on a hot day, place on motor) it will make it a bit more pliable to stretch over the airbox.
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Bacardi 151 (05-03-2012)
#163
05-03-2012, 10:39 AM
Veteran Member
Again I'm looking forward to the video...
#164
05-03-2012, 11:18 AM
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At light throttle opening, air speed and airflow at the inlet system are relatively low. The high residence time of air in the inlet while at low-throttle settings will increase inlet charge temps when materials with high thermal conductivity are used. Typically, when someone is at light throttle they are not asking the engine to make power. Most likely, fuel economy is the issue.
When the throttle is fully opened however, air speed and airflow increase considerably. Typically, the inlet air speed of a 5.7L engine with a four-inch duct at full throttle is 34 feet-per-second, based on a volumetric efficiency of 70% and an engine speed of 3,000 rpm. Most inlet systems for every intake manufacturer for this engine are 30 inches or less. This means that the air in the duct of a 30-inch inlet length on this engine at the given rpm is 1/10th of a second—hardly enough time to transfer an appreciable amount of heat into the air stream on any system.
When the throttle is fully opened however, air speed and airflow increase considerably. Typically, the inlet air speed of a 5.7L engine with a four-inch duct at full throttle is 34 feet-per-second, based on a volumetric efficiency of 70% and an engine speed of 3,000 rpm. Most inlet systems for every intake manufacturer for this engine are 30 inches or less. This means that the air in the duct of a 30-inch inlet length on this engine at the given rpm is 1/10th of a second—hardly enough time to transfer an appreciable amount of heat into the air stream on any system.
For myself, I am concerned with city driving. The argument that at light throttle, the heat soak issue is not as important depends on the individual. I think that with a hotter intake charge, the throttle response from idle will not be as optimized as with a cold intake charge. No one is really contesting that as far as I have read.
The folks who want to sell a metal pipe [NOT talking about forum members] will emphasis that under high flow conditions it does not matter. They are correct and correct to try to gloss over the heat soak part of it in order to help convince the buyer to spend.
The folks who want to sell a metal pipe [NOT talking about forum members] will emphasis that under high flow conditions it does not matter. They are correct and correct to try to gloss over the heat soak part of it in order to help convince the buyer to spend.
Given the small differential in temperature from the engine bay to the air inlet area, I don't believe that any significant amount of heat will be transferred in that time span.
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Classic_Engr (05-04-2012)
#165
05-03-2012, 08:18 PM
update 5/3/11. Hey guys. Matt advised me of an issue with the intake tube. If you're running a stock intake tract, you're going to need a 3.25" coupler and an additional 3.75" t bolt. This is as opposed to guys with modified intake tracts (mine runs a 3" coupler). Anyhow, if you run stock, you will need a 3.25". If you currently run a modified stock setup, you need to take a look at the end of the intake tube facing the mass air meter. If the mass air meter has the ridge on it, you'll need the 3.25. If it does not, then you more than likely need a 3" and should confirm by measuring.
I've already pm'd the guys that I shipped to so far. Justin, v8str, I pm'd you. Thomas, if you could let me know on yours, I'll make sure to get it out with the correct connector. Yours is currently getting polished. IF I've missed anyone, just pm me to confirm. Thanks!
Anyhow, this caught me by surprise, but there's always something when you're hot rodding!
I've already pm'd the guys that I shipped to so far. Justin, v8str, I pm'd you. Thomas, if you could let me know on yours, I'll make sure to get it out with the correct connector. Yours is currently getting polished. IF I've missed anyone, just pm me to confirm. Thanks!
Anyhow, this caught me by surprise, but there's always something when you're hot rodding!
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Bacardi 151 (05-03-2012)
#166
05-04-2012, 04:11 AM
Veteran Member
@Qwiketz, it might help if you can copy/paste a definitive set of install instructions depending on current configuration into a Word file or even the body of a PM.
Drop them to me and I'll add to the FAQ section, so that you can include a quick install link in your signature rather than the guys having to wade through pages of posts.
HTH.
Drop them to me and I'll add to the FAQ section, so that you can include a quick install link in your signature rather than the guys having to wade through pages of posts.
HTH.
#168
05-04-2012, 01:50 PM
@Qwiketz, it might help if you can copy/paste a definitive set of install instructions depending on current configuration into a Word file or even the body of a PM.
Drop them to me and I'll add to the FAQ section, so that you can include a quick install link in your signature rather than the guys having to wade through pages of posts.
HTH.
Drop them to me and I'll add to the FAQ section, so that you can include a quick install link in your signature rather than the guys having to wade through pages of posts.
HTH.
#169
05-04-2012, 01:52 PM
Persoally, I'd really love to see the whole intake tract polished along with the intercoolers. I think that would be pretty awesome.
Last edited by qwiketz; 05-05-2012 at 03:28 PM.
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bfsgross (05-06-2012)
#170
05-05-2012, 03:30 PM
Revised connectors and t bolts went out today for the guys in Canada and the east coast guys. Rasputin and V8STR, you guys are next on the list. I just need to restock on 3.75" t bolts which should be Tuesday. Sorry about the delay.
THomas, I should be getting a call from the polishing guy early this next week. Your will go out with the correct fittings.
THomas, I should be getting a call from the polishing guy early this next week. Your will go out with the correct fittings.
#171
05-05-2012, 07:12 PM
Hey guys. Here's some install instructions and tips. Just let me know if you have any specific questions. Thanks again and good luck!
Part One
Intake pipe part 1 - YouTube
Part Two
Install intake part 2 - YouTube
Part One
Intake pipe part 1 - YouTube
Part Two
Install intake part 2 - YouTube
Last edited by qwiketz; 05-05-2012 at 07:26 PM.
#173
05-06-2012, 06:43 AM
Veteran Member
qwiketz, would you have the part numbers for the connectors? I have new airintake,com units but not sure if they're correct.
#174
05-07-2012, 11:57 AM
I'm in
Okay, so far I have a few members that have contacted me to pick one of these up. The pricing isn't final and I'm waiting on my Jag dealer to give me a definitive answer on the breather fittings. That's one of the last things to do/get so I'll be ordering the rest of the materials Monday. So if you're interested, let me know and I'll update the list. Cost should be around $200-250 shipped(in the USA) and I'll have more info on that at the end of this upcoming week. The variables on that are cost to polish them and the breather fittings. ETA on getting these shipped is probably 2 weeks with them shipping out on the 21st. I'm in Vegas for a trade show at the beginning of that week so when I get back, I'm hoping to be able to pick them up from the polishing shop.
So far, members that have expressed interest are:
1. v8 str
2. dvsadam
3. styper2003
I also need to figure out cost to ship to the UK and Canada. I'll update the thread as I get the info.
So far, members that have expressed interest are:
1. v8 str
2. dvsadam
3. styper2003
I also need to figure out cost to ship to the UK and Canada. I'll update the thread as I get the info.
#175
05-07-2012, 01:24 PM
pm's responded to.
I've gotten several inquiries into the part numbers of the couplers. I source mine locally to save on shipping time so I don't know the part numbers are airintake.com. What I can say is that if you're using the stock air intake box, the diameter you need for that end is 3.25". The cast aluminium intake elbow is also 3.25".
I've gotten several inquiries into the part numbers of the couplers. I source mine locally to save on shipping time so I don't know the part numbers are airintake.com. What I can say is that if you're using the stock air intake box, the diameter you need for that end is 3.25". The cast aluminium intake elbow is also 3.25".
#176
05-07-2012, 01:47 PM
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: PHX some of the time
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Where have you been David?
I was just wondering about you the other day.
I was just wondering about you the other day.
#177
05-07-2012, 01:51 PM
Member
Great job so far Qwiketz. Let me know if you ever stop at Cars 'n Coffee at Irvine. I'd love to see the intake on your car. I happen to have experience in designing performance intake systems for OEM's and more recently for the aftermarket.
#178
05-07-2012, 02:15 PM
Member
However it takes a certain amount of time to cool a hot pipe, a certain amount of time for the computer to decide that it should move to a cooler part of the map, and therefore a certain amount of time to get from heat soaked to happy. I think the difference would manifest itself as throttle response.
So glad you brought this up. This is a common assumption, but keep in mind that the computer reacts to the temperature of the incoming air, not to the temperature of the “hot pipe” or intake tract, and rather quickly at that. Yes, much of this depends on the design of the intake. Specifically, the ECM reacts to the information from the MAF sensor, which often includes an IAT sensor. Our S-Type R also includes an IAT sensor near the throttle body. Because the air is moving rapidly, even at 1500RPM, the location of initial source of air is critical. In a Jaguar S-Type R, the stock design is very good with regard to temperature management. I state this based on data I’ve recorded, not just an opinion.
Remember, although the intake tract may be hot, the incoming air starts at ambient temperature. IAT’s drops to ambient very quickly beyond off idle with the stock intake in this particular car, and the computer adjusts almost instantaneously to that temp change. There is no “butt dyno” accurate enough to detect this change in response due to the reduction in air temperature over this short time. I’m talking about milliseconds here. Any change in throttle response detected at the seat of the pants with a new intake would be more likely due to a reduction in restriction and subsequent increase in flow rate across the RPM range fcompared to the stock setup. I’ve done extensive research on this and have real time test data to prove it.
The only circumstance under which this is not true is with an intake where the source air location is hot. This is especially true after a hot shutdown or long idle. John Concialdi is very correct at pointing out that the location of the filter for source air is more critical to IAT’s.
An open element filter mounted up high in the engine compartment behind the radiator with no airbox to protect it or a scoop to source cooler air is about the worst case scenario, with regard to IAT's. Now the incoming AIR is hot, and it will take a considerable amount time to evacuate that hot air and replace it with cooler outside air. In some cases, as with say a supercharged V8, that area can get so hot that the incoming air will always be heated to temps higher than ambient before being drawn into the engine, once the engine reaches operating temperature, and especially when driven aggressively on a hot day.
With that in mind, I can tell you that the manufacturer I work with the most runs all of their vehicle dyno testing with the hood closed and a very large custom fan set-up blowing to simulate ~30MPH wind speed to report more realistic results. You know, like the way you actually drive your car. Last time I checked, it's really hard to drive with the hood, er bonnet, open!
That said, I encourage Qwiketz to continue. The resulting reduction in restriction of his intake may be significant enough to override any increase in IAT's. But I would encourage anyone to run dyno tests with fans and ECT at or above operating temperature, but with the hood closed, to see for themselves what actual gains they can expect on the street.
Last edited by Classic_Engr; 05-07-2012 at 02:36 PM.
#179
05-07-2012, 02:24 PM
Veteran Member
For the record I called two somewhat local dyno locations...Both are business hours only (I'd need to take vacation time) and both charge around $100, one was even "buy two runs and the get the third free!" which made me laugh...
#180
05-07-2012, 03:51 PM
Senior Member
Posted by Classic_Engr:
The only circumstance under which this is not true is with an intake where the source air location is hot. This is especially true after a hot shutdown or long idle. John Concialdi is very correct at pointing out that the location of the filter for source air is more critical to IAT’s.
An open element filter mounted up high in the engine compartment behind the radiator with no airbox to protect it or a scoop to source cooler air is about the worst case scenario, with regard to IAT's.
The only circumstance under which this is not true is with an intake where the source air location is hot. This is especially true after a hot shutdown or long idle. John Concialdi is very correct at pointing out that the location of the filter for source air is more critical to IAT’s.
An open element filter mounted up high in the engine compartment behind the radiator with no airbox to protect it or a scoop to source cooler air is about the worst case scenario, with regard to IAT's.
Last edited by Robinb; 05-07-2012 at 04:27 PM.