Really bad sounds coming from my engine... (I need a techs opinion!!)
#1
11-09-2008, 06:32 PM
Really bad sounds coming from my engine... (I need a techs opinion!!)
Okay, so I just did a full tune up this week, filters, plugs, oil, etc.. My car was running great for the past days, better than ever.. So today I got bored and I was playing with my intake again and I wanted to see what would happen if I removed the tube that pulls air in from the grill.. I removed the two screws holding it on, took it out, and went out for a drive.. I made it out of my neighborhood, got on the gas and it drove great.. for a mile. Then it got pissed off at me, the exhaust started making a low pitched rumble throughout the rpm range and the engine had not power.. I immediately went home and put the tube back on and took the car back out, but still had the same low pitched rumble coming from the exhaust (sounds like it has a big cam or something) and on the second drive the "restricted performance" light came on as well as a blinking check engine light.. So then I went back to my house and unplugged the battery and let the car sit for 45 minutes to an hour and started it back up.....
Now I have a HUGE problem.. The idle is really rough and the engine is making a really bad knocking noise that sounds like it coming from around/underneath the supercharger.. I have the extended warranty, but I only use the dealership in ft. pierce which is around 2 1/2 hours away and it doesn't sound like it's going to make it that far.. (I have a closer dealership, but their thieves and don't install anything they change you for (and I'm friends with the owner)) The knocking noises is really bad, and got worse after the reset.. My friend thinks I leaned it out too much with the intake off and blew a ring.. I know one of you techs must have an idea... My code readers broken, but I don't feel like the car is going to know the problem anyways.. Also don't we have a tech in the Ft. Lauderdale / Miami area?? My warranty company will pay you directly and doesn't argue about prices if you would be interested....
I'm usually on here to help others, but now the tables have turned.. So if anyone can figure this out I would be very grateful.. Eric
Now I have a HUGE problem.. The idle is really rough and the engine is making a really bad knocking noise that sounds like it coming from around/underneath the supercharger.. I have the extended warranty, but I only use the dealership in ft. pierce which is around 2 1/2 hours away and it doesn't sound like it's going to make it that far.. (I have a closer dealership, but their thieves and don't install anything they change you for (and I'm friends with the owner)) The knocking noises is really bad, and got worse after the reset.. My friend thinks I leaned it out too much with the intake off and blew a ring.. I know one of you techs must have an idea... My code readers broken, but I don't feel like the car is going to know the problem anyways.. Also don't we have a tech in the Ft. Lauderdale / Miami area?? My warranty company will pay you directly and doesn't argue about prices if you would be interested....
I'm usually on here to help others, but now the tables have turned.. So if anyone can figure this out I would be very grateful.. Eric
#2
11-09-2008, 07:46 PM
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RE: Really bad sounds coming from my engine... (I need a techs opinion!!)
Eric........really need codes but, I off the bat think the engine got lean codes from your air mod ( reason being, theyre known setting lean codes if you dont get the air box lid on correctly) restricted performance and a flashing ck engine light mean a misfire(usually) or something else that is so severe engine/component damage is eminate, and will put into restricted perf to get you attention. I would suspect that you possibly toasted a cat, hense the rattle or knock. Of course these are purely conjecture at thistime without codes
#3
11-09-2008, 10:58 PM
RE: Really bad sounds coming from my engine... (I need a techs opinion!!)
Okay so we started listening to the engine with a stethoscope and the knock is coming from the supercharger, I'm almost positive that the impellers are hitting the top of the case... I don't know how I did it, but I think I took out a bearing and now the blades are rattling around while the engine is on.. I've seen this once before on a lightning, and a ford is a ford, even with the cat on the hood.. you can clearly hear it on the back of the case, and its a very loud clicking noise even audible with the hood closed from 15 feet away.. Im taking it in to Apline Jag tomorrow morning and we'll see what they say, I hope it can make it there. 
#4
11-10-2008, 06:41 AM
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RE: Really bad sounds coming from my engine... (I need a techs opinion!!)
If it is there lots of rebuilders out there and from your descrption of where, I would say you got excessive rotor backlash which is very noticable at idle. Call Magnuson superchargers and find out if they have one in stock and use yours as a core.....or you can get the case dimensions and upgrade to a Magnuson Hi Helix 4 lobe.......
alot less parsitic power loss than the factory Eaton,
alot less parsitic power loss than the factory Eaton,
#5
11-10-2008, 09:33 AM
RE: Really bad sounds coming from my engine... (I need a techs opinion!!)
I'm on magnusons website and I'm wondering if their MP112 would fit on my engine.. Also how would the price compare to the price of a Jaguar OEM blower? I'm trying to see if I can find a shop that would work with me to upgrade it because my warranty company will cover the parts and labor for the OEM repair, but if that would cost a ton I would rather upgrade... I was going to be towing it to Alpine Jaguar, but I'm considering towing it to a performance shop instead?
Kenne Bells seem a little too difficult to attatch to our engines, but magnusons seem like a more feesible option... what do you think brutal?
Also thanks for the help too bud, Eric
Kenne Bells seem a little too difficult to attatch to our engines, but magnusons seem like a more feesible option... what do you think brutal?
Also thanks for the help too bud, Eric
#6
11-10-2008, 10:08 AM
RE: Really bad sounds coming from my engine... (I need a techs opinion!!)
ORIGINAL: enginefxr
Did you remove the air filter box? If so, what are the chances you had a loose washer or some other foreign object suck into the engine? A knocking noise from anywhere in the engine is bad. If it did go lean, you could have burnt a piston or broken the top ring land. If you want to check out how severe the problem might be, do a compression check or leakdown check of the engine. At least then you'll know how deep the problem could be.
Did you remove the air filter box? If so, what are the chances you had a loose washer or some other foreign object suck into the engine? A knocking noise from anywhere in the engine is bad. If it did go lean, you could have burnt a piston or broken the top ring land. If you want to check out how severe the problem might be, do a compression check or leakdown check of the engine. At least then you'll know how deep the problem could be.
ORIGINAL: rianbechtold
You removed the tube prior to the air cleaner, right?
Fact is, you really should have checked the code instead of just disconnecting the battery but that can't be changed now. I doubt your problem is running lean. The mass airflow sensor would automatically change the computer settings and you wouldn't really notice. PLUS, despite what alot of people think, manufactures do certain things for certain reasons. I am willing to bet that you starved the engine of air and what air it got was heated air from the engine compartment. Your car probably read the sensors input as running rich then read the air as being to hot. NOW, I am unsure about jaguar but seeing as how they are a more upper end company, I will go out on a limb to also bet that the ecu is quite good at taking data and adjusting engine controls. Seeing as how your engine is supercharged, it is most likely EXTREMELY sensitive to intake air temperatures. If it saw a spike in IAT, it would immediately begin to adjust the timing. Now, hopefully it does not have a test mode in which it tests the IAT sensor before adjusting the timing because that would have been more then enough time for the engine to begin detonating. I have sets of the pistons they use in these engines in my garage and can personally say that if any bit of detonation occurs, I doubt the pistons would live, they are very brittle.
HOWEVER, on a postive note, if the timing is askew, then there is a chance that is your only problem. However, the problem with alot of newer cars is if their timing is severly off, the car's computer doesn't know how to adjust so it does not adjust it. If you have a good code scanner you can hook it up and start the car for a few seconds, find out what the timing is at and call your dealer or a friend or post on here and have someone do the same with their car.
That's about it for simple diagnostics, as suggested, a leakdown or simple compression test would be the next step.
You removed the tube prior to the air cleaner, right?
Fact is, you really should have checked the code instead of just disconnecting the battery but that can't be changed now. I doubt your problem is running lean. The mass airflow sensor would automatically change the computer settings and you wouldn't really notice. PLUS, despite what alot of people think, manufactures do certain things for certain reasons. I am willing to bet that you starved the engine of air and what air it got was heated air from the engine compartment. Your car probably read the sensors input as running rich then read the air as being to hot. NOW, I am unsure about jaguar but seeing as how they are a more upper end company, I will go out on a limb to also bet that the ecu is quite good at taking data and adjusting engine controls. Seeing as how your engine is supercharged, it is most likely EXTREMELY sensitive to intake air temperatures. If it saw a spike in IAT, it would immediately begin to adjust the timing. Now, hopefully it does not have a test mode in which it tests the IAT sensor before adjusting the timing because that would have been more then enough time for the engine to begin detonating. I have sets of the pistons they use in these engines in my garage and can personally say that if any bit of detonation occurs, I doubt the pistons would live, they are very brittle.
HOWEVER, on a postive note, if the timing is askew, then there is a chance that is your only problem. However, the problem with alot of newer cars is if their timing is severly off, the car's computer doesn't know how to adjust so it does not adjust it. If you have a good code scanner you can hook it up and start the car for a few seconds, find out what the timing is at and call your dealer or a friend or post on here and have someone do the same with their car.
That's about it for simple diagnostics, as suggested, a leakdown or simple compression test would be the next step.
ORIGINAL: BRUTAL
theres no reason for timing to be off and if theres a fault with knock sensorsyoull get a ck eng light. also disc the battery and erasing ck eng lights is old school, CEL are retain in NON volatile memory, meaning if you did a hard reboot, the only thing you do is clear window, sunroof, radio clock memory, and it reset adaptation in ecus(all ecus) to factory defaults. Youll clear a pending code or ones that are of no consequence to operation, but what your experiancing will not go away, and theres a difference between the light turning off and the code going away
theres no reason for timing to be off and if theres a fault with knock sensorsyoull get a ck eng light. also disc the battery and erasing ck eng lights is old school, CEL are retain in NON volatile memory, meaning if you did a hard reboot, the only thing you do is clear window, sunroof, radio clock memory, and it reset adaptation in ecus(all ecus) to factory defaults. Youll clear a pending code or ones that are of no consequence to operation, but what your experiancing will not go away, and theres a difference between the light turning off and the code going away
Hey guys I'm moving this thread over to tech help where it belongs, but I didn't want to lose your responses because I appreciate the help..
#7
11-10-2008, 11:06 AM
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RE: Really bad sounds coming from my engine... (I need a techs opinion!!)
WELL CALL MAGNUSON AND TALK TO THEM, I BOUGHT A STILLEN SUPERCHARGE FROM A FRIEND IN CNADA FOR MY 05 FRONTIER AND HAVE BEEN TALKING TO MAGNUSON ABOUT UPGRADING IT, BUT THEY DONT KNOW CASE DIMENSION, FOR JAGUARS THEY MAY. MOST EXT WARRANTY COMPANIES IVE DELT WITH WONT PAY FOR ANYTHING BUT FACTORY UNLESS IT SAVES THEM MONEY SOMEHOW. FIRST WOULD BE FINDING OUT THE TRUE DIAG, AND THEN WE COULD GO FROM THERE, BUT IN THE MEENTIME TALK TO MAGNUSON ABOUT YOUR OPTIONS AND COSTS
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#8
11-10-2008, 02:28 PM
RE: Really bad sounds coming from my engine... (I need a techs opinion!!)
Magnuson unfortunately said they dont deal with jags.. I told them it was a 5th gen. M112 and they said if I sent it to them they would rebuild it, but thats it, no upgrades... I have dealt with Stiegemeier superchargers and they do some pretty impressive work: porting, pulleys, bearings, etc. Their porting is really impressive, so if I end up using an independent shop I will probably have it sent to them for the rebuild..
Okay and I got you the codes Brutal, these came up, but after I erased them I drove the car around and it didn't throw another code or CEL, but while it ran it sounded like a harley, or like it had a 427 with a lumpy cam lol... I think its f*&ked
The same noise is still coming from the blower... The codes were a emissions, misfires, ignitions, and too lean.. Let me know what you think.
CODES:
P0171
P0308
P1314
P1316
P1111
P1000
Okay and I got you the codes Brutal, these came up, but after I erased them I drove the car around and it didn't throw another code or CEL, but while it ran it sounded like a harley, or like it had a 427 with a lumpy cam lol... I think its f*&ked
The same noise is still coming from the blower... The codes were a emissions, misfires, ignitions, and too lean.. Let me know what you think.
CODES:
P0171
P0308
P1314
P1316
P1111
P1000
#9
11-10-2008, 02:50 PM
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RE: Really bad sounds coming from my engine... (I need a techs opinion!!)
a 427 with a lumpy cam in a Jag......hmmmm sounds good, I have to show you pics of my 878 Suburban with a 383, and my 79 El Camino with a 580 and a REALLY lumpy cam. but back to yours 171 a lean, 308 misfire on cylinder 8 which on yours is back cylinder drivers, 171 is lean on passenger or A back, and the other codes1313, 1316 are for misfire rate excessive enough to damage cats, refer to 1313 which leads me to next ck...pull the coil and plug on #8 and run a compession test.
#10
11-10-2008, 03:47 PM
RE: Really bad sounds coming from my engine... (I need a techs opinion!!)
Thanks for sticking wit me on this, and I really want to see that el camino, I'd kill for a 65... and a 580 sounds like a hell of a good time.. But anyways I just got a new plug and I'm throwing that in to make sure mine wasn't defective.. If that doesn't help I'm going to move the coil to another cylinder and see if my miss moves with it.. then if neither of those helps I guess I'll throw the compression gauge on there and if it has none I guess I should cry.. lol what should the reasonable range for compression on these engines be? min/max
#11
11-10-2008, 04:04 PM
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RE: Really bad sounds coming from my engine... (I need a techs opinion!!)
WELL IM LOOKING MORE AT A NONE THAN A NUMBER, IF RUN RUN EM ALL THEN YOUDE HAVE A COMPARISON. BUT YOUR ON THE RIGHT TRACK MOVING THE COIL, I WOULD JUST RUN THE COMP TEST WHILE YOURE IN THERE. AND HOPING YOU DIDNT DROP A VALVE SEAT WHICH GIVES REAL NICE KNOCKING AND NO COMPRESSION, BUT DONT JUMP TO THAT BRIDGE JUST YET
#12
11-10-2008, 05:58 PM
RE: Really bad sounds coming from my engine... (I need a techs opinion!!)
New plug, moved the coil, and I was so mad at it that I didn't een bother with the compression.. Its Alpine Jag Ft. Lauderdales problem now, I'm going back for a loaner tomorrow.. they might give me an XF for a loaner.. 
if they do I'm taking it to the street races on friday lol
if they do I'm taking it to the street races on friday lol
#13
11-10-2008, 09:47 PM
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RE: Really bad sounds coming from my engine... (I need a techs opinion!!)
ORIGINAL: whiteSTR
New plug, moved the coil, and I was so mad at it that I didn't een bother with the compression.. Its Alpine Jag Ft. Lauderdales problem now, I'm going back for a loaner tomorrow.. they might give me an XF for a loaner.. if they do I'm taking it to the street races on friday lol
New plug, moved the coil, and I was so mad at it that I didn't een bother with the compression.. Its Alpine Jag Ft. Lauderdales problem now, I'm going back for a loaner tomorrow.. they might give me an XF for a loaner..
if they do I'm taking it to the street races on friday lol
#16
11-17-2008, 09:29 AM
RE: Really bad sounds coming from my engine... (I need a techs opinion!!)
Jaguar called me up the day after I brought it in and told me it was a coil... They told me my warranty does not cover coil packs so it would be $295 to replace the one, they then asked me "since we already have your intake manifold off to get to the one coil... would you like us to replace the other 7 while we are in there?" I said "you have my intake manifold off!!?!" they were like "yeah, its the only way to get to the coil packs..." I was like oh really?.... then after approving the replacement of the one coil and NOT the other 7 they called me up 5 1/2 hours later to tell me my car was ready.. I got there in the idle was alright, but the same terrible noise was still coming from my supercharger.. I asked them what about the noise? and they said "welllll... since your car didn't throw any error codes for that we cannot do anything about it.." and I was like "there is obviously something wrong with it.. just listen to it, it sounds like a broken garbage disposal.!.." they replied "without a code we dont know if anything is actually broken."
So I guess now my new game plan is to: Beat the sh*t out of the car until the blades lock up and the whole damn thing explodes... then maybe I'll get a CEL and an error code? at which time I'm towing it to their service center and having the driver back it write up into the service managers door..
So I guess now my new game plan is to: Beat the sh*t out of the car until the blades lock up and the whole damn thing explodes... then maybe I'll get a CEL and an error code? at which time I'm towing it to their service center and having the driver back it write up into the service managers door..
#17
11-17-2008, 03:03 PM
#18
11-17-2008, 05:18 PM
RE: Really bad sounds coming from my engine... (I need a techs opinion!!)
And their charging a 100 plus dollars an hour for what!!! Also if you change you plugs out you have to unplug the coil packs and that does not require removing the intake.... or does it? I only ask because I about to change my plugs.
#19
11-17-2008, 07:19 PM
RE: Really bad sounds coming from my engine... (I need a techs opinion!!)
Hahaha no it sure doesn't... they were just trying to justify charging $300 to replace one coil pack.. I shared a bit of my own technical knowledge with them and talked their service manager into a corner.. and he just replied "hey, its a jag, these cars are expensive..." typical answer [>:]
I did my own little short writeup on changing the plugs in our cars.. now if i could just find it...................... [&:]
I did my own little short writeup on changing the plugs in our cars.. now if i could just find it...................... [&:]